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Question - Grandmaster some changes the we'd like to see

Tom Brady

Tom Brady

Champion
There is no way clone cancel should be safe off of B12, F42, F33, B33, etc.. Only clone cancel buff I could see as fair is D4~clone. You have to understand.. B12, F42, etc are moves where you are hunting a combo. Then add the fact that you would be able to block confirm and put up a clone for free. Now take into account that in corners your opponent is in a situation where they are at risk of losing between 40-50% life because they blocked a string into a clone cancel and they had no option to stop it. Clone cancel buff off of any move but D4 would be completely unfair.

The only "buff" SZ really needs is to be able to consistently combo female characters. Thats all he needs.
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
Fine then. Reduce ice ball scaling with aura active, this keeps the buff focused on Unbreakable. Further reduce ex ice ball scaling with aura active. Take this with my other two suggested buffs and I think Unbreakable is solid. I think a run-cancelable and hold-able parry that leads into a full combo is a tad bit absurd.
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
Clone cancel buff off of any move but D4 would be completely unfair. The only "buff" SZ really needs is to be able to consistently combo female characters. Thats all he needs.[/QUOTE said:
i take back all the bullshit i ever said about this guy
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champdee

champdee

Apprentice
quan in the beginning got nerfed a bit did it hurt him really? he's still top 3 if not contender for best.. sub WAS up there, why's he got to be so low compared to who he was? , And @Tom Brady the cancel stuff was a wishlist, not really serious.. he has enough stuff that's safe into clone. Not sure if that was directed at me? I just want fixes... Like the strings or at least most of them being able to freeze into without bar, That's it. I'm sorry but in the state this character is in now I don't see him winning any stacked major. You'll need 2 more characters to play sub I feel. No shame in playing to win.. oh and the obvious girl combos bs
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Ze Dingo said:
How about no? Like seriously, let people learn the matchup themselves or do some research. No need to spoonfeed them.
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I'm almost afraid all the crying is going to get the character nerfed... Again. People know they can armor through clone already, why not write it down for the less than stellar players? Having a guide will help people fight us, but it'll also take the odds of nerfing clone or GM as a whole down significantly. It might even posture him for the buffs/ fixes we're discussing here.

Who knows, maybe we'll find something new (i.e. the reason SZ is invincible vs some clone punishes, like Jax dash fist, when forward dashing).
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
Ree301 said:
I'm almost afraid all the crying is going to get the character nerfed... Again. People know they can armor through clone already, why not write it down for the less than stellar players? Having a guide will help people fight us, but it'll also take the odds of nerfing clone or GM as a whole down significantly. It might even posture him for the buffs/ fixes we're discussing here.
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People will always cry when they can't deal with something, so fuck them.

Sub Zero is less than stellar mid screen and scary in the corner. I'm almost certain he won't get nerfed.

But then, they nerfed Mileena, so I wouldn't put it past them. Either way, the character is absolutely fine as he is, bug fixes notwithstanding.
 
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
For a moment I seriously thought the op was a joke lol. I think Tom said it best, the only thing sub needs is consistent Hitboxs on females. I alt sub, and by absolutely no means am I any kind of authority on him in any regard, but the buffs listed are ridiculous. Anybody can see that. Even in his current form, grandmaster sub is a great character, probably somewhere in the #11-13slots.
 
champdee

champdee

Apprentice
Forbidden_Donut said:
For a moment I seriously thought the op was a joke lol. I think Tom said it best, the only thing sub needs is consistent Hitboxs on females. I alt sub, and by absolutely no means am I any kind of authority on him in any regard, but the buffs listed are ridiculous. Anybody can see that. Even in his current form, grandmaster sub is a great character, probably somewhere in the #11-13slots.
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safe clone stuff was a wishlist and was thinking midscreen mostly, since you didn't read the whole thread it seems.. sure, all sub players want the b33~freeze working, and the consensus around here is, f33~freeze, b33~freeze, 12~freeze, and maybe even f42~freeze most agree with,, it's not about what I want, that'd be a different thread entirely mostly about how they should of designed sub-zero in all variations.. it's about coming together and agreeing on stuff, not bickering... if kenshi, kitana, reptile can get a bunch of buffs why can't we? going from top5 to 13-15 is not good design lets be real here.
 
Forbidden_Donut

Forbidden_Donut

"You think you bad? Pffft, You ain't bad.."
champdee said:
safe clone stuff was a wishlist and was thinking midscreen mostly, since you didn't read the whole thread it seems.. sure, all sub players want the b33~freeze working, and the consensus around here is, f33~freeze, b33~freeze, 12~freeze, and maybe even f42~freeze most agree with,, it's not about what I want, that'd be a different thread entirely mostly about how they should of designed sub-zero in all variations.. it's about coming together and agreeing on stuff, not bickering... if kenshi, kitana, reptile can get a bunch of buffs why can't we? going from top5 to 13-15 is not good design lets be real here.
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Nobody is bickering, you are stating your opinion on what you think Sub zero needs, and I'm stating my opinion that, with all due respect, I think your changes are too much. Safe clone cancels on block, bigger clone hitbox, regular freeze working off of b33, f33, 12, f42, etc. is just crazy man and whoever is agreeing with you that these changes are justified has no idea what they're talking about. It shouldn't be about buffing characters, it should be about balancing characters and Sub Zero is pretty damn balanced.

Kenshi, Kitana, and Reptile got buffed because they didnt start the game as an undoubtedly top 5 character that decimated some of the cast. In fact, they were pretty unanimously considered bottom 5. Sub zero absolutely demolished some characters at the start of this game. He was nerfed to his current state in which he is now an extremely solid character that is totally tournament viable. Your changes would make him borderline broken and I dont think anyone wants that dude, not even the sub zero players. Sub Zero is a neutral game and footsies deviant who forces you to play his game plan the moment he sets up clone. He's also a corner monstrosity that can get 50% meterless damage off of a 50/50. You are entitled to your opinion and I'm entitled to disagree with it man. Like I said before, in my opinion, the only change Sub needs is hitbox fixes to make his combos consistent on females, thats pretty much it.
 
T

Thanilla Ice

Mortal
The GM Sub community are filled with a bunch of cry babies with Brady leading them all, holy shit. I respect the GM Sub players that realize their character must be carefully updated in a game like this.
Buff requests like the ones in the OP are ridiculous.
Most of the cast has to spend armor to get out the clone, and you want to make any string cancelled into it safe?
The clone going away on block is completely fair in MKX, nothing should be compensated for that.
Most of the cast has to deal with hitbox issues, I NEVER played as sub so I wouldn't know his. He seems like a character with a sole purpose to push people to the corner where he really shines. So anything that whiffs midscreen due to spacing and the hitbox size is fair if you'd ask me.
 
boba_buster

boba_buster

Noob saibot
Thanilla Ice said:
The GM Sub community are filled with a bunch of cry babies with Brady leading them all, holy shit. I respect the GM Sub players that realize their character must be carefully updated in a game like this.
Buff requests like the ones in the OP are ridiculous.
Most of the cast has to spend armor to get out the clone, and you want to make any string cancelled into it safe?
The clone going away on block is completely fair in MKX, nothing should be compensated for that.
Most of the cast has to deal with hitbox issues, I NEVER played as sub so I wouldn't know his. He seems like a character with a sole purpose to push people to the corner where he really shines. So anything that whiffs midscreen due to spacing and the hitbox size is fair if you'd ask me.
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Somebody here got bodied by a good GM ...
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
Thanilla Ice said:
Sub buffs aren't necessary when there are characters that need way more attention. I'm not posting because of salt, I'm posting because I'm sick of "Lord Bradiers" saying Subby sucks.
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Uh. I think the general consensus among the GM players in here, including Brady is that Grandmaster needs nothing apart from bug fixes.
 
T

Thanilla Ice

Mortal
Ze Dingo said:
Uh. I think the general consensus among the GM players in here, including Brady is that Grandmaster needs nothing apart from bug fixes.
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There's Champdee, Slacked and a bunch of randoms online that complain about sub zero needing buffs and him being low tier -_-
 
Ze Dingo

Ze Dingo

D4->F2 = unblockable. Ice Clone = unpunishable.
Thanilla Ice said:
There's Champdee, Slacked and a bunch of randoms online that complain about sub zero needing buffs and him being low tier -_-
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That's why I said "general consensus", not "everyone's of the opinion that" :p

He's definitely not low tier. High mid at best.
 
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