Question - Grandmaster some changes the we'd like to see

[llabslb]

I honestly can't tell if you're joking or not

 

[zoofs]

my only request for Sub Zero is:

Clone doesn't go away on block.... we need sub back... i wont play him till then. because he isnt sub.

my reason: its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile, or jip or use long range attack/ tele.

sounds like you've just about summed up sub, nice. This post definitely comes off as someone with a lot of experience against competent sub zeros so I really appreciate it

 

[Spencer]

Dude the changes your asking would make sub-zero a flawless character.Every Character has a few flaws so they are beatable.

Don't you guys already think Ice clone is good enough as is? Giving it a bigger hitbox is just absurd.

They gave b33 ice clone link on females because some of the combos that work on male characters don't work on females cause of smaller hit box.

Theirs a lot factors that come into this....

-IF all his low starters link without meter.He would only need to use meter to wake up and Antizone.So he would almost always have a full meter.

-IF low starters link without meter would cause opponents to be in the corner 2x as often.ALL OF HIS COMBOS Already CARRY YOU TO THE CORNER.

And we all know that he is incredibly strong in the corner already .

He has low damage Midscreen because of how great his damage in the corner WITHOUT METER.and his combos corner carry already.

-The ONLY thing I would fix on him is the ICE CLONE stance combos so it would link more since he's using a bar to do it.

I'm not hating it's just this not needed.

 

[SaSSolino]

I like MK9 subzero way better, MKX sub sucks. he shouldn't have 50/50s or that fast movement, but I agree on giving him pressure.

 

[666 I HazeOner]

I like MK9 subzero way better, MKX sub sucks. he shouldn't have 50/50s or that fast movement, but I agree on giving him pressure.

I miss his flow too, he played so fluent in MK9. His animations in MKX are so weird & choppy imo, it is what it is I guess...

And to the OP:
Sub is 'just' an A/A+ character in this game, get over it. Seems like you all have that toxic complaint disease that's in the Sub community since MK9... And while it was warranted in MK9, it really isn't in this game. He's A/A+ for crying out loud!

 

[M.D.]

Well, i'm going to throw myself into the lions den on this.
Before I start, I'm going to already post this for @zoofs :" Please stop posting. Thank you." so he doesn't bother after.

So, I agree with consistency for b33, that should work the same one way or the other.

But the rest:

* Plus on block pressure...for Grandmaster.
Not sure if serious or borderline post-apocalyptic.

So you want clone AND plus on block pressure? I understand you feel bad that you actually have to PLAY the game to win,even for the small extent that GM mains do, but really, don't you want an option to press X-Ray and have the AI play for you?

I understand you like to win but you have to remember this game goes both ways, your opponent has to play also, not just wait until you chip and +onblock into clone him until the timer ends. Be considerate and not selfish.


* Clone going away on block is a good change.

To quote someone from above: "its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile" Are you serious? It's not hard? It's ok, I can bring meter from home to break your 978367 clones that you do in the match. I see it now, hell I can borrow meter from mk9 as well.

You people can not be serious when you consider meter as a counter to clone. It's so easy to get meter that why not, I can sell some meter at a table at tournaments to players going in the match against GM.


The change that GM needs is to NERF his clone activation range, because it is NOT ok for clone to activate point blank in string gaps or when the opponent is running towards you. Clone working as a counter is NOT balanced. If you want a counter, use Unbreakable.

The change that Subzero as a whole needs is to NERF his db1 ex on block making it full combo punishable by everyone. Having an armored launcher that only a couple of characters can punish because of pushback is NOT ok.


Just keppin-it-real for those that are too scared to speak out for this because they get flak. So burn me at the stake, I'll take it for the team

 

[xXxNasHxXx]

Well, i'm going to throw myself into the lions den on this.
Before I start, I'm going to already post this for @zoofs :" Please stop posting. Thank you." so he doesn't bother after.

So, I agree with consistency for b33, that should work the same one way or the other.

But the rest:

* Plus on block pressure...for Grandmaster.
Not sure if serious or borderline post-apocalyptic.

So you want clone AND plus on block pressure? I understand you feel bad that you actually have to PLAY the game to win,even for the small extent that GM mains do, but really, don't you want an option to press X-Ray and have the AI play for you?

I understand you like to win but you have to remember this game goes both ways, your opponent has to play also, not just wait until you chip and +onblock into clone him until the timer ends. Be considerate and not selfish.


* Clone going away on block is a good change.

To quote someone from above: "its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile" Are you serious? It's not hard? It's ok, I can bring meter from home to break your 978367 clones that you do in the match. I see it now, hell I can borrow meter from mk9 as well.

You people can not be serious when you consider meter as a counter to clone. It's so easy to get meter that why not, I can sell some meter at a table at tournaments to players going in the match against GM.


The change that GM needs is to NERF his clone activation range, because it is NOT ok for clone to activate point blank in string gaps or when the opponent is running towards you. Clone working as a counter is NOT balanced. If you want a counter, use Unbreakable.

The change that Subzero as a whole needs is to NERF his db1 ex on block making it full combo punishable by everyone. Having an armored launcher that only a couple of characters can punish because of pushback is NOT ok.


Just keppin-it-real for those that are too scared to speak out for this because they get flak. So burn me at the stake, I'll take it for the team

I am with you on this. The character needs to be tonned down in the corner ice clone trap rather than being buffed to be a block pressure character with 50/50s.

 

[Prinz]

Well, i'm going to throw myself into the lions den on this.
Before I start, I'm going to already post this for @zoofs :" Please stop posting. Thank you." so he doesn't bother after.

So, I agree with consistency for b33, that should work the same one way or the other.

But the rest:

* Plus on block pressure...for Grandmaster.
Not sure if serious or borderline post-apocalyptic.

So you want clone AND plus on block pressure? I understand you feel bad that you actually have to PLAY the game to win,even for the small extent that GM mains do, but really, don't you want an option to press X-Ray and have the AI play for you?

I understand you like to win but you have to remember this game goes both ways, your opponent has to play also, not just wait until you chip and +onblock into clone him until the timer ends. Be considerate and not selfish.


* Clone going away on block is a good change.

To quote someone from above: "its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile" Are you serious? It's not hard? It's ok, I can bring meter from home to break your 978367 clones that you do in the match. I see it now, hell I can borrow meter from mk9 as well.

You people can not be serious when you consider meter as a counter to clone. It's so easy to get meter that why not, I can sell some meter at a table at tournaments to players going in the match against GM.


The change that GM needs is to NERF his clone activation range, because it is NOT ok for clone to activate point blank in string gaps or when the opponent is running towards you. Clone working as a counter is NOT balanced. If you want a counter, use Unbreakable.

The change that Subzero as a whole needs is to NERF his db1 ex on block making it full combo punishable by everyone. Having an armored launcher that only a couple of characters can punish because of pushback is NOT ok.


Just keppin-it-real for those that are too scared to speak out for this because they get flak. So burn me at the stake, I'll take it for the team

The "just use an enhanced special to punish clone" disease was spread by Brady, "How is clone good if it can be punished for a BAR of METER?". I can not believe that guy. GM players need to start playing the game and forget the times where they put out clone and went for dinner.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Well, i'm going to throw myself into the lions den on this.
Before I start, I'm going to already post this for @zoofs :" Please stop posting. Thank you." so he doesn't bother after.

So, I agree with consistency for b33, that should work the same one way or the other.

But the rest:

* Plus on block pressure...for Grandmaster.
Not sure if serious or borderline post-apocalyptic.

So you want clone AND plus on block pressure? I understand you feel bad that you actually have to PLAY the game to win,even for the small extent that GM mains do, but really, don't you want an option to press X-Ray and have the AI play for you?

I understand you like to win but you have to remember this game goes both ways, your opponent has to play also, not just wait until you chip and +onblock into clone him until the timer ends. Be considerate and not selfish.


* Clone going away on block is a good change.

To quote someone from above: "its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile" Are you serious? It's not hard? It's ok, I can bring meter from home to break your 978367 clones that you do in the match. I see it now, hell I can borrow meter from mk9 as well.

You people can not be serious when you consider meter as a counter to clone. It's so easy to get meter that why not, I can sell some meter at a table at tournaments to players going in the match against GM.


The change that GM needs is to NERF his clone activation range, because it is NOT ok for clone to activate point blank in string gaps or when the opponent is running towards you. Clone working as a counter is NOT balanced. If you want a counter, use Unbreakable.

The change that Subzero as a whole needs is to NERF his db1 ex on block making it full combo punishable by everyone. Having an armored launcher that only a couple of characters can punish because of pushback is NOT ok.


Just keppin-it-real for those that are too scared to speak out for this because they get flak. So burn me at the stake, I'll take it for the team

LMAO.

I thought of you the second I saw this and tagged you for a reason.

You did not disappoint!

 

[buyacushun]

Reason being he spends to much bar for just shy of 30% without enough strings meterlessly

Why reply to my old statement instead of the newest one? And again, grandmaster Sub doesn't get a lot of damage because of his tools. Cryo gets damage though. Unbreakable damage may be costly but it's defensive variation. If you want GM sub to be so good get ready to do 10% midscreen instead of 20-25%. 20-25% off of mixups or a space controlling tool that independent of you. A tool that takes simply entering the command to do.

Well. I guess it allows him to spend a bar to take control of 5 seconds of a match. And honestly it's not like it makes anything safer, I mean the only difference is on block, it just allows him to keep the investment he spent a bar on instead of just losing it to a poke.

Didn't NRS make it harder to beat though? It sure feels that way.

 

[RM Ree]

@Ree301 at highest lvl ppl will punish b12~clone, tom's said he's gotten full combo punished.. so it's only a matter of time.. i don't see making clone safe, ex + a big deal..

Yeah b12 xx clone will get punished, I expect it to. But typically it's punished as a reversal from the b12, suddenly making that string a strong bait depending on if you clone, ex statue, or simply block. Madzin used this vs. Ketchup Quan, baiting trance multiple times. It's an added level to the MU.

 

[champdee]

Dude the changes your asking would make sub-zero a flawless character.Every Character has a few flaws so they are beatable.

Don't you guys already think Ice clone is good enough as is? Giving it a bigger hitbox is just absurd.

They gave b33 ice clone link on females because some of the combos that work on male characters don't work on females cause of smaller hit box.

Theirs a lot factors that come into this....

-IF all his low starters link without meter.He would only need to use meter to wake up and Antizone.So he would almost always have a full meter.

-IF low starters link without meter would cause opponents to be in the corner 2x as often.ALL OF HIS COMBOS Already CARRY YOU TO THE CORNER.

And we all know that he is incredibly strong in the corner already .

He has low damage Midscreen because of how great his damage in the corner WITHOUT METER.and his combos corner carry already.

-The ONLY thing I would fix on him is the ICE CLONE stance combos so it would link more since he's using a bar to do it.

I'm not hating it's just this not needed.

um, why would they link on diff. hitoxes then?Surely it wasn't intended to happen only on females.. You and i know it was not intended this way.. and its not like when they get the corner they oppononet has NO options.. maybe you you just have't labbed with your character on how get out

 

[champdee]

Why reply to my old statement instead of the newest one? And again, grandmaster Sub doesn't get a lot of damage because of his tools. Cryo gets damage though. Unbreakable damage may be costly but it's defensive variation. If you want GM sub to be so good get ready to do 10% midscreen instead of 20-25%. 20-25% off of mixups or a space controlling tool that independent of you. A tool that takes simply entering the command to do.



Didn't NRS make it harder to beat though? It sure feels that way.

yeah maybe cryo could be the answer, but he's unsafe as hell, not to mention you can jump outta mb hammer on reaction. And cuz I felt like it, it's my thread right? Maybe I didn't like your pervious post

 

[Dankster Morgan]

You upplayers you , he's not gravy he's a cool character... did even prepatch sub make a top 8? yeah that's what I thought, I mean that in a joking tone btw... text can be taken out of context too easily.. reason I don't post too much.. but honestly.. if these changes came through... I have faith you guys would like them, and pretty sure tom woulda won a lot.

Madzin won a major in the EU with sub. And has Quan Chi won a major? But he is considered a top 3 character. I would love theses changes and the way you presented them makes sense and is very well thought out. I still think grandmaster is pretty underrated.
Edit: im not comparing sub zero to Quan, im just saying results isn't a good way to judge a character.

 

[champdee]

ex ice statue is inconsistent still

Yeah b12 xx clone will get punished, I expect it to. But typically it's punished as a reversal from the b12, suddenly making that string a strong bait depending on if you clone, ex statue, or simply block. Madzin used this vs. Ketchup Quan, baiting trance multiple times. It's an added level to the MU.

 

[champdee]

Madzin won a major in the EU with sub. And has Quan Chi won a major? But he is considered a top 3 character. I would love theses changes and the way you presented them makes sense and is very well thought out. I still think grandmaster is pretty underrated.

That's in the EU though and once... put madzin over here in our tournys and lets see how far he makes it using all sub.. I like madzin though, but lts be real.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

That's in the EU though and once... put madzin over here in our tournys and lets see how far he makes it using all sub.. I like madzin though, but lts be real.

Yeah I can see your point. I think he would do pretty good. Did he make top 32 or top 16 at evo? I can't remember but that's pretty good.

 

[champdee]

I miss his flow too, he played so fluent in MK9. His animations in MKX are so weird & choppy imo, it is what it is I guess...

And to the OP:
Sub is 'just' an A/A+ character in this game, get over it. Seems like you all have that toxic complaint disease that's in the Sub community since MK9... And while it was warranted in MK9, it really isn't in this game. He's A/A+ for crying out loud!

man tym is incredibly dumb, forget having a real discussion right? Dude, the character needs helphe's not a/a+ lets be real here, he could use some help, cryo got good buffs why not gm? and yeah I like the mk9 sub style much better

 

[champdee]

Yeah I can see your point. I think he would do pretty good. Did he make top 32 or top 16 at evo? I can't remember but that's pretty good.

yeah something like that... even madzin's playing blood god... so he knows whats up, tom's messing around with other characters lately...

just make b33, f33, f42, and 12~freeze work without bar it should not take bar to use that. I love sub but I think I' abandoning ship, will still use him though.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

This mkx sub is vastly superior to the mk9 version. Why is that even up for debate? He is better than most characters and he probably just behind top ten in this game. It's not like the sub zero struggle is real when he probably has more 8-2 matchups in his favor than anyone. The Klone negates a lot of variations movesets so it needs to be handled with care. Bug fixes and female hitbox fixes are needed for sub though.

 

[champdee]

my only request for Sub Zero is:

Clone doesn't go away on block.... we need sub back... i wont play him till then. because he isnt sub.

my reason: its not hard to fight off. just break it with meter or projectile, or jip or use long range attack/ tele.

yup, remember woundcowboy used him? after the nerfs he was like "fuck this im out" Only person keepin ppl playing this character is Tom and fans and such

 

[Dankster Morgan]

yeah something like that... even madzin's playing blood god... so he knows whats up, tom's messing around with other characters lately...

just make b33, f33, f42, and 12~freeze work without bar it should not take bar to use that. I love sub but I think I' abandoning ship, will still use him though.

Whoever Tom uses doesn't mean anything to how good sub is. Madzin has been playing blood God the whole time I think. Are you actually implying that blood God is better than grandmaster? It's entierely up to you who you play and if sub doesn't do what you want in a character then by all means go for it.

 

[Spencer]

um, why would they link on diff. hitoxes then?Surely it wasn't intended to happen only on females.. You and i know it was not intended this way.. and its not like when they get the corner they oppononet has NO options.. maybe you you just have't labbed with your character on how get out

If they wanted it to link they would of been fix it in the previous patches. Netherealm buff cyomancer last patch and left GM alone cause they didn't want it to link.

 

[champdee]

If they wanted it to link they would of been fix it in the previous patches. Nethere.alm buff cyomancer last patch and left GM alone cause they didn't want it to link.

ppl have been wanting this since day 1, soo possibly they'd have to start from scratch and I suspect it may be a breathing hitbox thing? MAN if they could fix that it'd help all the whiffing issues across the cast, maybe kp2... Let's hope.. I don't see why they wouldn't want it to link.. I think it's just they can't do it

 

[RM Ree]

ex ice statue is inconsistent still

B12 xx statue works on block 100% of the time since the validity check adjustment. It's just 1 of 3 options in that situation though.

I'm a little surprised the female corner combo hasn't been brought up specifically. Has everyone transitioned appropriately then?