Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

[AssassiN]

Lol, now I get it why A F0xy Grampa was doing that to me.
I kept on thinking "he's trolling me and he is freaking winning with it!".
Thought you were trying to embarrass me .

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Guys, I know what bird lao is. I get it.

There are ways around it. Im dont feel like talking to a wall anymore about this so unless your willing to admit that there are ways out of it...I'm done.

Tell me the way out then? Because to stop it, you would have to stop these things:

- Jump kick, the universally un-antiairable move that beats NJPs JIPs
- DK same properties as JK and moves him jump distance away on cross over
- 7f starters
- The mixup of not doing JKDK repeatedly like a clown = free blockstrings

Bird Lao is 100% safe, the only way you can stop it is if you play Reptile or Kabal, and Kitana is pretty much the only other character that can contest him in the air. What makes this even worse, is that he can take 45% for a bar point blank, on a safe mixup that if it doesn't hit still has him at advantage.

There is only 1 REAL answer I've found so far, and thats Kabals Ex ND, because that will catch him before he lands, Reptile can reverse the dash and block the divekick. The only way others are going to stop it is by contesting him with a JK in the air, but what other character can combo off a JK that close/early/high. Kitana.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Tell me the way out then? Because to stop it, you would have to stop these things:

- Jump kick, the universally un-antiairable move that beats NJPs JIPs
- DK same properties as JK and moves him jump distance away on cross over
- 7f starters
- The mixup of not doing JKDK repeatedly like a clown = free blockstrings

Bird Lao is 100% safe, the only way you can stop it is if you play Reptile or Kabal, and Kitana is pretty much the only other character that can contest him in the air,

Why cant I just empty red dash when I see you start to jump while your still in front of me so I go one way while you go further (out of 21 range) away in the other direction?

I can just neutral crouch your pressure and when you jump, red dash.

 

[Big Pampering]

Tell me the way out then? Because to stop it, you would have to stop these things:

- Jump kick, the universally un-antiairable move that beats NJPs JIPs
- DK same properties as JK and moves him jump distance away on cross over
- 7f starters
- The mixup of not doing JKDK repeatedly like a clown = free blockstrings

Bird Lao is 100% safe, the only way you can stop it is if you play Reptile or Kabal, and Kitana is pretty much the only other character that can contest him in the air.

There is only 1 REAL answer I've found so far, and thats Kabals Ex ND, because that will catch him before he lands, Reptile can reverse the dash and block the divekick. The only way others are going to stop it is by contesting him with a JK in the air, but what other character can combo off a JK that close/early/high. Kitana.

raiden might be able to catch lao before he lands

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

There is only 1 REAL answer I've found so far, and thats Kabals Ex ND, because that will catch him before he lands, Reptile can reverse the dash and block the divekick. The only way others are going to stop it is by contesting him with a JK in the air, but what other character can combo off a JK that close/early/high. Kitana.

Mileena maybe?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Why cant I just empty red dash when I see you start to jump while your still in front of me so I go one way while you go further (out of 21 range) away in the other direction?

I can just neutral crouch your pressure and when you jump, red dash.

Only Reptiles dash and Kabals EXND are quick enough to have an attempt at getting him as/before he lands. Skarlets dash is too slow.
By neutral crouching it, you're giving him free attempts to JIP, but if you start trying to AA, he can just JKDK again and go for the safe 45% starter.
Also, all the players that neutral crouch always seem to try to poke (probably since theyre crouching), but all that does is create whiff punish opportunities and JIP chances.

Seriously, is a dumb broken tactic and its hilarious to watch.

Mileena maybe?

Do Raidens superman and Mileenas ball travel at the same speed? I know the superman wont work.

raiden might be able to catch lao before he lands

Possibly with an early teleport, but thats no different to the scenario of a player neutral crouching and poking, theyre whiffing things and risking for nothing. Raiden players would have to react to the JKDK and teleport, if they react to a regular JIP and teleport they've just eaten a full combo.

Bird Lao still skews the risk/reward heavily in Laos favour.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Only Reptiles dash and Kabals EXND are quick enough to have an attempt at getting him as/before he lands. Skarlets dash is too slow.
By neutral crouching it, you're giving him free attempts to JIP, but if you start trying to AA, he can just JKDK again and go for the safe 45% starter.
Also, all the players that neutral crouch always seem to try to poke (probably since theyre crouching), but all that does is create whiff punish opportunities and JIP chances.

Seriously, is a dumb broken tactic and its hilarious to watch.

dude...I'm not saying you cant 21 or do something else...but if your going to "condore dive" around, her red dash is plenty fast enough to create space.

It might not be as good as reptiles for space...but it is better than nothing. This gimmick may work on a majority of the cast, but Skarlet can get out.

 

[Big Pampering]

Only Reptiles dash and Kabals EXND are quick enough to have an attempt at getting him as/before he lands. Skarlets dash is too slow.
By neutral crouching it, you're giving him free attempts to JIP, but if you start trying to AA, he can just JKDK again and go for the safe 45% starter.
Also, all the players that neutral crouch always seem to try to poke (probably since theyre crouching), but all that does is create whiff punish opportunities and JIP chances.

Seriously, is a dumb broken tactic and its hilarious to watch.



Do Raidens superman and Mileenas ball travel at the same speed? I know the superman wont work.



Possibly with an early teleport, but thats no different to the scenario of a player neutral crouching and poking, theyre whiffing things and risking for nothing. Raiden players would have to react to the JKDK and teleport, if they react to a regular JIP and teleport they've just eaten a full combo.

Bird Lao still skews the risk/reward heavily in Laos favour.

wait superman is faster than ex nomad dash though.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

dude...I'm not saying you cant 21 or do something else...but if your going to "condore dive" around, her red dash is plenty fast enough to create space.

It might not be as good as reptiles for space...but it is better than nothing. This gimmick may work on a majority of the cast, but Skarlet can get out.

If your dash isnt Ex ND speed or Reptile speed, you're not getting out easily.
I'm not arguing with you here for the sake of arguing, I'm just trying to explain that KL has a competely broken strategy.

Basically, imagine a KL where low pokes dont work on him. Low pokes or low hitboxes are literally his only weakness.

Does it sound like you are playing Skarlet the way you want to play her, if you're having to randomly dash things and sit there crouching, not being able to press buttons etc? Bird Lao pretty much eliminates all characters gameplans, and forces them to play by his rules, they have to react or guess, and its very hard to do if even the KL player does stuff randomly.

Obviously she has stuff herself that is very good, but she cant keep hers up forever, KL can.

wait superman is faster than ex nomad dash though.

In start up, but doesnt Kabal move across the screen quicker? Some reason Kabal catches KL before he hits the ground.

 

[Big Pampering]

If your dash isnt Ex ND speed or Reptile speed, you're not getting out easily.
I'm not arguing with you here for the sake of arguing, I'm just trying to explain that KL has a competely broken strategy.

Basically, imagine a KL where low pokes dont work on him. Low pokes or low hitboxes are literally his only weakness.

Does it sound like you are playing Skarlet the way you want to play her, if you're having to randomly dash things and sit there crouching, not being able to press buttons etc.

Obviously she has stuff herself that is very good, but she cant keep hers up forever, KL can.



In start up, but doesnt Kabal move across the screen quicker? Some reason Kabal catches KL before he hits the ground.

I just picked up raiden and my friend plays a pretty solid kung lao as well, I can test this next week when he stops by for some games.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Kabal eh dash (13 frame startup, 25 Frames to get full screen, startup Armor)
Skarlet Red Dash (12 Frame Startup, 29 Frames to get 1/2 screen)
Skarlet eh Red Dash (12 Frames Startup, 27 Frames to get 3/4 screen, Full duration Super Armor)

If red dash cant do it then eh red dash can...ggs

 

[Big Pampering]

Kabal eh dash (13 frame startup, 25 Frames to get full screen, startup Armor)
Skarlet Red Dash (12 Frame Startup, 29 Frames to get 1/2 screen)
Skarlet eh Red Dash (12 Frames Startup, 27 Frames to get 3/4 screen, Full duration Super Armor)

If red dash cant do it then eh red dash can...ggs

how did you get this data? I want to know supermans specific frame data as well...

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Kabal eh dash (13 frame startup, 25 Frames to get full screen, startup Armor)
Skarlet Red Dash (12 Frame Startup, 29 Frames to get 1/2 screen)
Skarlet eh Red Dash (12 Frames Startup, 27 Frames to get 3/4 screen, Full duration Super Armor)

If red dash cant do it then eh red dash can...ggs

Ok, thats not a meterless answer for a meterless problem. All you can do from it is slide anyway, because he can still block overhead slices.
Using meter to answer bird Lao is not the way to go about it, especially as Skarlet who cant standing reset him out of a flying divekick.
All that would do is encourage me to get you to EXRD slide alot, 1 bar for 7% each time, good trade.

What we should do is find the data for Reptiles dash, that way we can find the minimum frame requirement to be able to fully punish bird Lao, everything else is just clutching at straws in terms of punishment.

 

[PND i2 Gaug3]

I have felt this Bird lao and I'm not happy with it.

AssassiN[be] I felt the same way when this man of different sexual preference A F0xy Grampa did it to me, I main Jax and when I saw what he was doing I was like fucking retard imma just snatch this Bitch out the air......Air gotcha is too slow flies straight over it, tried dash blocking to get a punish.....hasn't worked for me once, only thing that I have hit him with have been a pre-emptive dash punch/pre-emptive 1(which was just as he was a bout to start another dive kick right after one before) truth be told those are one in a hundred times that I actually get to hit him out of the air, those other times when I try, I get met with a lot less life thanks to a ohh so fucking wonderful Dive kick combo.

so with that said Life's a bitch

This message is brought to you by The Hateocracy

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Not even Cyrax's godlike AA grab is enough to stop it for some reason. It'll just whiff alot of the time PND_Mustard

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

how did you get this data? I want to know supermans specific frame data as well...

Not sure if serious?

Ok, thats not a meterless answer for a meterless problem. All you can do from it is slide anyway, because he can still block overhead slices.
Using meter to answer bird Lao is not the way to go about it, especially as Skarlet who cant standing reset him out of a flying divekick.
All that would do is encourage me to get you to EXRD slide alot, 1 bar for 7% each time, good trade.

What we should do is find the data for Reptiles dash, that way we can find the minimum frame requirement to be able to fully punish bird Lao, everything else is just clutching at straws in terms of punishment.

I'm not saying slide...i'm saying EMPTY RED DASH. Now re-think your argument

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Not sure if serious?

I'm not saying slide...i'm saying EMPTY RED DASH. Now re-think your argument

Yeah thats a though, I get the feeling 2 1 will beat out all of her options other than slide though, since empty dashes have longer recovery, and the overhead slice is so slow, if he has time to block it before it starts up, he must also have time to 2 1. Perhaps the normal upslash may be quick enough, but he'll still be able to block it.

Whatever way you look at it, its still less risk for KL, and not a legitimate answer. A legitimate answer would be something you could rely on every time, not a guess game where if you win you get less damage than you would lose if you lose.

 

[Big Pampering]

Not sure if serious?

I'm not saying slide...i'm saying EMPTY RED DASH. Now re-think your argument

dude lol im not trolling. how did you know it takes x frames for a move to get fullscreen.

 

[LionHeart]

LOL change the title to Bird Lao vs All and put it in Lao's section kthxbai

 

[LionHeart]

dude lol im not trolling. how did you know it takes x frames for a move to get fullscreen.

Kabal's EX ND travels full screen so he just looked at the duration of the move in his frame data.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

dude lol im not trolling. how did you know it takes x frames for a move to get fullscreen.

thanks to somberness...that info was easy to find.

Yeah thats a though, I get the feeling 2 1 will beat out all of her options other than slide though, since empty dashes have longer recovery, and the overhead slice is so slow, if he has time to block it before it starts up, he must also have time to 2 1. Perhaps the normal upslash may be quick enough, but he'll still be able to block it.

Whatever way you look at it, its still less risk for KL, and not a legitimate answer. A legitimate answer would be something you could rely on every time, not a guess game where if you win you get less damage than you would lose if you lose.

I want to go to the opposite side of the screen from lao...not towards him. I'm not trying to punish it, I'm trying to create space. thats why I empty dash the opposite way from where you are going.

If I wanted to punish it I would use red dash slide for a 20 frame attack...but I would rather create space

 

[Wigy]

Surely smoke has more than enough time to Teleport?

I must be missing something here i dont get how this is viable at all?

So what are you doing is there any video footage of this?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

thanks to somberness...that info was easy to find.


I want to go to the opposite side of the screen from lao...not towards him. I'm not trying to punish it, I'm trying to create space. thats why I empty dash the opposite way from where you are going.

If I wanted to punish it I would use red dash slide for a 20 frame attack...but I would rather create space

What are you going to achieve from running from KL though, Skarlet poses no threat unless she's close, KL can get in against anyone with relative ease.

He's better than her from fullscreen anyway. Both characters have an answer for having projectiles thrown at them.

Surely smoke has more than enough time to Teleport?

I must be missing something here i dont get how this is viable at all?

So what are you doing is there any video footage of this?

You on XBL?

 

[Wigy]

What are you going to achieve from running from KL though, Skarlet poses no threat unless she's close, KL can get in against anyone with relative ease.

He's better than her from fullscreen anyway. Both characters have an answer for having projectiles thrown at them.



You on XBL?

Yeppers. And im UK as well.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Yeppers. And im UK as well.

Whats your tag? I'll show you it now if you like.