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Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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L0rdoftheFLY said:
Nobody even suggested eh rd slide to punish. God I swear this is the problem you assume you know what I've been talking about this whole time when you actually have no clue.

I'm testing this today. Look out for a video in the next few days.
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If you can make a video looking for an answer to a strategy that has at least 9 or 10 safe options every time, very well done.
You suggested Empty EXRD, do that and he'll just JKDK over your head again for free and you've spent a bar on fuck all.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
A F0xy Grampa said:
If you can make a video looking for an answer to a strategy that has at least 9 or 10 safe options every time, very well done.
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Keep laughing gramps. Even IF your right, I will grind it tooth and nail to make sure.

I've done this before to pig and he was able to escape with kenshi. It took 6-10 games but he figured it out. I just need the same practice. Besides you still have to get in that position. Skarlet can win the match from full screen.
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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L0rdoftheFLY said:
Keep laughing gramps. Even IF your right, I will grind it tooth and nail to make sure.

I've done this before to pig and he was able to escape with kenshi. It took 6-10 games but he figured it out. I just need the same practice. Besides you still have to get in that position. Skarlet can win the match from full screen.
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1 divekick, roll, teleport jump or just walk a step forward and KL is in good enough range to stop her.
She cant win any damage trades from fullscreen.

7% hat vs 5% daggers if both of them hit, which doesnt happen in a trade, so basically its 7% vs 2% fullscreen, KL has a meterless counter to her zoning, she doesnt have a strong meterless counter to his.

Also IDK how you're gonna test this, in a real match you will NEVER have time to think about what the next move the KL player is gonna do when they land.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
A F0xy Grampa said:
1 divekick, roll, teleport jump or just walk a step forward and KL is in good enough range to stop her.
She cant win any damage trades from fullscreen.

7% hat vs 5% daggers if both of them hit, which doesnt happen in a trade, so basically its 7% vs 2% fullscreen, KL has a meterless counter to her zoning, she doesnt have a strong meterless counter to his.
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Her full screen game isn't about even trades man. She will likely but you with 4 daggers before you get a hat to trade. Iadd and iafd keep dive kicks and rolls both in check from the right range. Go ahead and teleport, if I read it I get 40% or more. Yes you can walk in (and that's your best option) but that's what we want for footsies.

You can't simplify the MU down to "my tools always win so..."
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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L0rdoftheFLY said:
Her full screen game isn't about even trades man. She will likely but you with 4 daggers before you get a hat to trade. Iadd and iafd keep dive kicks and rolls both in check from the right range. Go ahead and teleport, if I read it I get 40% or more. Yes you can walk in (and that's your best option) but that's what we want for footsies.

You can't simplify the MU down to "my tools always win so..."
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Right...

The way you play the fullscreen game, I'd just sit there, throw a hat, and duck. If you have to come to him, you're giving him the easiest option to start bird Laoing. Walk or RD into that distance and he'll just start it on reaction and for free.

You're assuming that just because KL can get in against anybody, that he has to, Skarlet is piss easy to turtle out as KL. You can afford to make a few mistakes because her zoning is so weak.

The teleport really doesn't matter that much, because he can also punish her counter zoning just as hard. But like I was saying, her zoning sucks, at least against him, so she'll be the one attempting to counter his more often than not.

His command grab will give him free wakeup pressure on her too, and he can block in time since her wakeups are so slow.

Personally I think thats a huge mistake people still make against Lao players, they try to run away from him, why do that? All it does is give him more options.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
A F0xy Grampa said:
Right...

The way you play the fullscreen game, I'd just sit there, throw a hat, and duck. If you have to come to him, you're giving him the easiest option to start bird Laoing. Walk or RD into that distance and he'll just start it on reaction and for free.

You're assuming that just because KL can get in against anybody, that he has to, Skarlet is piss easy to turtle out as KL. You can afford to make a few mistakes because her zoning is so weak.

The teleport really doesn't matter that much, because he can also punish her counter zoning just as hard. But like I was saying, her zoning sucks, at least against him, so she'll be the one attempting to counter his more often than not.

His command grab will give him free wakeup pressure on her too, and he can block in time since her wakeups are so slow.
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She builds meter faster than Lao from full screen. Also...
The traditional down dagger works wonders for those trying to counter zone and neutral crouch. Her u3 dagger also allows her to build meter while avoiding low hats. She can play patient too. Once she builds meter though she become more dangerous.

I'm not saying Lao loses...all I'm saying is that it's not as easy for him as you make it seem. Skarlet has tools (that are effective) that can annoy Lao.
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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L0rdoftheFLY said:
She builds meter faster than Lao from full screen. Also...
The traditional down dagger works wonders for those trying to counter zone and neutral crouch. Her u3 dagger also allows her to build meter while avoiding low hats. She can play patient too. Once she builds meter though she become more dangerous.

I'm not saying Lao loses...all I'm saying is that it's not as easy for him as you make it seem. Skarlet has tools (that are effective) that can annoy Lao.
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She's not gonna have an opportunity to use the meter. She can't catch bird Lao, and even if she does, he's low hitboxed.
Meter is no danger to Lao. Bird Lao will build up more meter IMO, he's constantly divekicking and getting block string pressure.

Straight hats will still be better in the trade, he does have 2 projectiles ya know :p
You wont be able to avoid every straight hat, unless the Lao players a bit retarded.

The only uses I can see for her meter are:

RDing hats
EXRD~sliding cross over JKDK (but this is a guess and if you attempt it you might just eat a full JIP combo.) Which is pretty much a waste anyway, cause its no damage for a bar, and he can just get right back up and start doing his bullshit again.
EX dagger frame traps if you're fortunate to land a JIP on the 6f AA guy.
Breaking <- probably your best bet. So long as the Lao player can stance confirm 2 4 and hit confirm 2 1/2 4, there will be alot of combo opportunities.

The fact that 2 4 spin in the correct stance has such massive range makes bird Lao even stupider. A confirmable long ranged 7f launcher that does 35+ %

You can only play patient for as long as the Lao player lets you. Patience goes completely out the window when you've got him divekicking over your head multiple times every second/doing random strings/throws/baiting pokes to whiff punish etc.

Its just too powerful of a tactic man. It's completely flipped the way I see the KL vs Cage/Sonya matches as well. They just cant touch him.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
L0rdoftheFLY pls stop it, its pointless.
Everytime a Skarlet player is trying to backup his statements are always accused of theory fighting.

But when the Skarlet player wins a match the statement is "The opponent doesn't know the MU that well".

just leave this be bro... its not like is the end of the world, besides 6-4 MU are winnables and very playables.
 
Ninj

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
This is all theory fighting. That said, L0rdoftheFLY is the only one here who's said they're gonna make a video to back up why what you're saying is true. Props to him, as usual.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
 
GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Matchup discussion is about tools innit?
What are we calling this then? I'd peg it down as a 5-5.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
You cant test anything against this bird lao tactic unless you actually play one that has used it for a while. its not about dealing with the jumpkick dive kick only, its the options lao gets because it is hard to deal with, he controls a lot of space because of the jumpkick dive kick.

what I am trying to say is, if youre just picking up kung lao to jumpkick dive kick it wont be the same, if you dont play lao, you probably wont be able to make use of all the options that will open up to you as a result of the jumpkick dive kick.
 
Eddy Wang

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I have a feeling that this thread will be closed again anytime soon, or worse. Since i don't see this taking us any where.
 
AssassiN

AssassiN

Warrior
There should be a rule against theory fighting lol.
I've fought a few times against Foxy and he did bird Lao against me. It's strange and fucked up but it works...
I did think up some stuff that I wanna try next time.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
PerfectMindGame said:
You cant test anything against this bird lao tactic unless you actually play one that has used it for a while. its not about dealing with the jumpkick dive kick only, its the options lao gets because it is hard to deal with, he controls a lot of space because of the jumpkick dive kick.

what I am trying to say is, if youre just picking up kung lao to jumpkick dive kick it wont be the same, if you dont play lao, you probably wont be able to make use of all the options that will open up to you as a result of the jumpkick dive kick.
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cop out...already saying my vid wont prove anything. I expected this from gramps but not you PMG
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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L0rdoftheFLY said:
cop out...already saying my vid wont prove anything. I expected this from gramps but not you PMG
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Its not about you, me, the vid, perfectmindgame or anything.

Its about a broken tactic. A tactic that works against near enough everybody in the cast.
As usual perfectmindgame comes into the thread and articulates what I'm trying to say in a better manner.

Unless you have an actual bird Lao player to 'test' it on, you wont find anything.

This is the future of Kung Lao, it elimates pretty much all of his former weaknesses, and it can be stacked on top of all of his strengths. It adds loads and takes away nothing from KL.
 
Big Pampering

Big Pampering

Master
L0rdoftheFLY said:
cop out...already saying my vid wont prove anything. I expected this from gramps but not you PMG
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Im sorry if I happened to miss that, but I am not saying it is even or in lao's favor. all I am saying is, skarlet has to play into this bird lao tactic like almost 90% of the cast has to.
 
AK L0rdoftheFLY

AK L0rdoftheFLY

I hatelove this game
You wont mind if i dont take your word for it and test it myself do you? I think I'm smart enough and have smart enough players around me to figure this out and execute it just as well as any other lao "main".
 
A F0xy Grampa

A F0xy Grampa

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Eddy Wang said:
Are you birding in this vid or aren't you?

I honestly preffer your footsie Lao better, but that's just me
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Not as it would be against a character that cant prevent it i.e. Skarlet, Cage, Sonya, Rain, Jax, Sektor, Liu Kang, Raiden, Kenshi, the rest of the cast excluding Reptile, Kabal, Kitana can contest.
 
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