Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

[THTB]

The way you describe this technique, Kung Lao is godlike. Online has everything to do with everything. Show us some recorded offline sessions of Bird Lao in action so we can see the skill levels of you and the person you're fighting to determine if it's even a fair fight, and then see what holes there may be in this Bird Lao strategy.

You're going to have a hard time in general saying Skarlet has no way to respond to something, because she has so many options between D3, EX Red Dash, and instant-air daggers to shut things in down. I realize those are general statements, but they are very versatile options she has. It's difficult to completely shut her down if the player understands the techniques being used against them.

Maybe Bird Lao is different and transcends Skarlet's ability to get out of shit. I'd love to see some video instead of "But if I do x, you can't do y!" "But then I can do z, and you can't do x! "But then if you do z, I can do f!" "But then..." forever and ever in a gigantic MK9 circle jerk.

Trust me from experience.

Bird Lao is stupid as shit online or offline, because unless you're the characters Foxy listed, it is fucking dumb. PL plays Kung Lao practically the same way Foxy does. I have to stop playing anyone not Reptile because the tactic is so fucking shitty to even deal with that it pisses me off, and that's just because Reptile can dash under KL as he's jumping and it causes divekick to autocorrect to him, and I can block in time.

This may not be Skarlet vs KL talk, but just a bit of experience vs Bird Lao confirming how bullshit-tacular the tactic actually is.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

16 my bad

 

[ryublaze]

RedRaptor10 get in here and tell everyone to stop upplaying Skarlet

 

[Dizzy]

Just to clear up some of the crazy misinformation being thrown around:

Instant angled jumpkick is 14 frames at its fastest. It is only 8f when done already airborne. This is just like Sonyas dive kick or any other jump attack; you need to be in the air for a certain amount of frames before doing it. 1 frame jump startup + 5 frames airborne + 8 jump kick startup.

Also, Instant NJP is 13 frames at its fastest.

To address another thing: this isn't something new, go watch PL's match footage if you want to see proof of it offline. I don't know about it being unbeatable, but its a really good tool to control the match against certain characters. A good way to think of it is like Kabals iaGB, you are using it to control space and essentially play the match on your terms; it allows you to then do several things such as dash up/jump in or otherwise do whatever you want.

 

[NariTuba]

A thread needs to be made explaining bird Lao fully. All the options and how to initiate it.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Just to clear up some of the crazy misinformation being thrown around:

Instant angled jumpkick is 14 frames at its fastest. It is only 8f when done already airborne. This is just like Sonyas dive kick or any other jump attack; you need to be in the air for a certain amount of frames before doing it. 1 frame jump startup + 5 frames airborne + 8 jump kick startup.

Also, Instant NJP is 13 frames at its fastest.

To address another thing: this isn't something new, go watch PL's match footage if you want to see proof of it offline. I don't know about it being unbeatable, but its a really good tool to control the match against certain characters. A good way to think of it is like Kabals iaGB, you are using it to control space and essentially play the match on your terms; it allows you to then do several things such as dash up/jump in or otherwise do whatever you want.

Doesnt matter that NJP could be quicker, because of the designs of the moves, its not all about the frames of the move, you've got to take into account the properties too. JKs are specific for countering anti air attempts.

You wont be able to jab a bird Lao out of the air.

 

[Rampage254]

Stop upplaying Skarlet. U3 is good for damage but it's still slow and can be whiff punished. LBSH, bird lao is kewl.

 

[Soul Bound X]

Says 16f on her frame data thread. The hitbox is huge on Cages B3 too, every Cage player thats tried to B3 me out of bird Lao, either gets full combo whiff punished from me doing nothing, or they get full combo whiff punished because the JKDK will just go over it.

If the JK doesnt connect and you divekick, you're safe.

Throwing shit out in anticipation is exactly what bird Lao wants you to do. Same applies to NJP, it just wont work.

Anyway, I doubt any Skarlet player would even have the time to throw out an U3 against 100% relentless divekick spam.

foxy, i know most cages when they try to back 3 you out of the air will miss but if you time it right im pretty sure he can hit you out of the dive kick. like after i played you i thought to myself that if i would of did like a reverse back 3 when u were crossing me up i might of could hit you out of the air. i felt that my back 3s were just missing by a little

 

[Ninj]

I'd love to see video of it this tactic and/or play A F0xy Grampa and record it (tonight?) online so we can all see it in action.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Soul Bound X]

playing bird lao against cage really evens it up... for now anyways. i played foxy and immediately after playing him, i went to play forever king and had a noticeably easier time against his lao. this mu is alot tougher for cage if the lao is using bird lao tactics.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I need more testing in his. Me and pig (who's Lao is actually quite solid) played a while on this. If those games told me anything, it's that skarlet loses the footsie game drastically and her only chance at winning is zoning, and keeping pressure after a reset. I couldn't iAd and it hurt me drastically. It wasn't a MU thing, it was an execution thing.

But I can't let one series determine my opinion. Ill be back

Just to clear up some of the crazy misinformation being thrown around:

Instant angled jumpkick is 14 frames at its fastest. It is only 8f when done already airborne. This is just like Sonyas dive kick or any other jump attack; you need to be in the air for a certain amount of frames before doing it. 1 frame jump startup + 5 frames airborne + 8 jump kick startup.

Also, Instant NJP is 13 frames at its fastest.

To address another thing: this isn't something new, go watch PL's match footage if you want to see proof of it offline. I don't know about it being unbeatable, but its a really good tool to control the match against certain characters. A good way to think of it is like Kabals iaGB, you are using it to control space and essentially play the match on your terms; it allows you to then do several things such as dash up/jump in or otherwise do whatever you want.

The issue w bird lao is how ridiculous priority Lao's moves have over everyone elses without armor

@A F0xy Grampa As stated by fly above ive gotten very serious about lao and experimenting a lot w bird lao. Bird Lao is the real deal imo and i think lao wins over skarlet 6-4 and out footsies her. Skarlet's U3 works well when timed right but im serious the timing is extremely strict. I'd recommend skarlet players to stay out of Bird Lao range lol and force any bird like activity to hit a stand block for punish.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

BTW i recorded our 3 hour session

 

[Ninj]

BTW i recorded our 3 hour session

Can we see? I understand the concept of bird Lao but I wanna see it...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Can we see? I understand the concept of bird Lao but I wanna see it...

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

yea i can post our matches however i just started to get the bird lao thing at the end so it really doesnt live up to the expectations of the thread. I feel like my lao looks good in it but theres not "on topic" bird lao, or enough of it. It took me a sec to really get how to use it

 

[GLoRToR]

Tool based assessment please.
Skarlet vs Lao
5-5 ?

 

[Ninj]

yea i can post our matches however i just started to get the bird lao thing at the end so it really doesnt live up to the expectations of the thread. I feel like my lao looks good in it but theres not "on topic" bird lao, or enough of it. It took me a sec to really get how to use it

I'm mostly interested in bird Lao. A F0xy Grampa my desire to play some matches still stands!

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

 

[B Pryme]

For what it's worth, I don't think it is Lao that the skarlet community should be worried about but more cyrax. I feel that cyrax dominates this matchup, and not because the one tourney match johnny . I've tested this match a lot and skarlet gets screwed, what is the high level skarlet players opinions.

 

[Big Pampering]

The issue w bird lao is how ridiculous priority Lao's moves have over everyone elses without armor

@A F0xy Grampa As stated by fly above ive gotten very serious about lao and experimenting a lot w bird lao. Bird Lao is the real deal imo and i think lao wins over skarlet 6-4 and out footsies her. Skarlet's U3 works well when timed right but im serious the timing is extremely strict. I'd recommend skarlet players to stay out of Bird Lao range lol and force any bird like activity to hit a stand block for punish.

when are we going to see pig lao in tourney?

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

@A F0xy Grampa As stated by fly above ive gotten very serious about lao and experimenting a lot w bird lao. Bird Lao is the real deal imo and i think lao wins over skarlet 6-4 and out footsies her. Skarlet's U3 works well when timed right but im serious the timing is extremely strict. I'd recommend skarlet players to stay out of Bird Lao range lol and force any bird like activity to hit a stand block for punish.

Stand blocking in hope of blocking teh divekick is a waste of time IMO, that just gives him blockstrings for days anyway, and its not that hard to get into bird range.

But then again, he has too many options in all the situations.

 

[Soul Bound X]

yeah, if you have a fast enough uppercut you could upper cut him out of the air. though that actually isnt that easy

 

[Soul Bound X]

i still think this a good mu for cage, even though against bird lao its a tougher mu, because he can still lock lao down with his pressure

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

when are we going to see pig lao in tourney?

i dont know maybe FR honestly or a local before then

hes not total ready but hes fun to use i feel good w him

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Bird Lao Is Born again @x12xAxPxExDx

 

[ryublaze]

x12xAxPxExDx is really good. I remember playing him and his Lao and I got owned cuz I suck. #BelongsInTheDumpster

 

[LionHeart]

For what it's worth, I don't think it is Lao that the skarlet community should be worried about but more cyrax. I feel that cyrax dominates this matchup, and not because the one tourney match johnny . I've tested this match a lot and skarlet gets screwed, what is the high level skarlet players opinions.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/skarlet-vs-cyrax.27879/