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Strategy "Shazam!" -- Captain Marvel General Discussion Thread

Mortal Komhat

Worst Well-Established Goro Player Ever
Yeah this set-up would definitely work better if we had, say, a hard knockdown off a string. Hint hint hint... (I really wish we did).

In so far as "if you know they will, no problem", keep in mind you can wake up after tech roll, so the tech roll really just avoids the entire shenanigans mix-up entirely. I'm not at home now but I'm wondering if tech rolling into wake up in this situation would be more disadvantageous than just teching and blocking/backdashing.
 

XxSYNDROISxX

For the Shokan since Mk3
Yeah this set-up would definitely work better if we had, say, a hard knockdown off a string. Hint hint hint... (I really wish we did).

In so far as "if you know they will, no problem", keep in mind you can wake up after tech roll, so the tech roll really just avoids the entire shenanigans mix-up entirely. I'm not at home now but I'm wondering if tech rolling into wake up in this situation would be more disadvantageous than just teching and blocking/backdashing.
To tell ya the truth i am just going by match XP here so far i have had good results but yeah if they tech roll i just go f223 Adv Tele then HM or f223 AT so im still learning the pros and cons but please post any put any one has with tech
 

pogse

Ruthlesss Mayhem
Shazam
· Increased the damage on the regular and Meter Burn versions of his Herculean Might and Achilles Clutch command grabs while also slightly improving the hit boxes.
· The Mighty Charge (Back + Medium, Hard) Combo now pops up to allow for juggle combos.
· Increased the damage output for both the Atlas Torpedo and the Bolt of Zeus.
· Increased the amount of block damage on his Hook Kick (Hard Attack).
· Solomon’s Judgment (Character Power) now has proper damage scaling.
Not sure if it needs a new thread

these are pretty significant buffs IMO. trait nerfed?
Hook Kick block damage buff seems interesting, would've preferred block advantage but its all great :D

we can go dumb on oki teleport to b2-3 :D
 

GAMETIME

I Bring Knives To A Gun Fight !
thats what i thought, i dont really use that move anyway tho, what other signifiance did that move have ?
 

shaowebb

Get your guns on. Sheriff is back.
Played some Shazam today locally and Im starting to feel the character. Took forever to get the hang of how to move around as him and he still feels loose and clunky, but I can see some potential to get him going if I study him. I'll keep working on him. Here's hoping he gets more costumes to add to his awesome lineup.

Dude could use a non red one though.



Ah yeah...thats the stuff.
 

SmokeMaster

I got no time for whining!!!
Shazam is a real threat now! With the increase in his throw range and the buff to b23 we are definitly in business now. No more crouching at max range from his HM and b2 whiffing on crouched opponents. Now the opponent has to be on their guard when they're in range of a grab. Of course they always have the option to back-dash, but AT will greet them when they're recovering from it. I'm also glad to see that now I can use his 3 more often then before. It really is a great tool now then it ever was before. Even though Shazam got a slight nerf in damage I think the trade off will be well worth it. Here I thought all he needed was decrease in startup frames on his teleport to be viable. These changes however will do just fine.
 

SuppaSapien3

Chipotle and Olive Garden are NOT authentic
I been playing Shazam for a while and I just recently started playing him seriously for two weeks straight , and here is my though with patch 1.06 passing and all and the viability of Shazam for the future...This is my two cents on this character. WARNING: This may be a eally long rant. WHAT WAS NETHER REALMS THINKING WITH THIS POOR EXCUSE FOR THIS SUPERMAN REJECT, BROKE @ss Zangief of a CHARACTER. My point being no matter what the heck you try to start out a combo with or open your opponent with it seems that everything is UNSAFE. I dash in and try to trap opponent with a d1 or 2; for some reason NR though it was smart for him to not cancel his forward dash for about 15 frames, so of of course everyone minus Zatanna can punish me at any time I dash. I use a Atlas torpedo, and the most opponents are quick enough to capitalize with a full combo off my -12 disadvantage. I try to maneuver around with his teleport, and who in God's name makes a teleport vulnerable in start up AND in ending. There is no fighting game logic in the history of fighters where that even makes any sense. Either you have a horribly bad startup and a quick recovery or you have a quick start up and you are punished at the end of the recovery. If hes gonna have any invincibility it damn well shouldn't just only be sandwiched in the middle. And why in the hell is all of his jump ins at a negative number? Oh gawd even if you try to time j2,2,2 at the perfect angle, im getting tired of characters like catwoman with 1 frame dodges able to punish me for me playing smart. But the most stupidest most retarded thing i have ever seen in any fighting game in the HISTORY of fighting games, why does a grappler have a GRAPPLE THAT ONLY HITS DUCKING CHARACTERS AND VISA VERSA!!!! THIS DEFIES THE CONCEPT OF A GRAPPLER. Not only do i have to spend half my health bar trying to get my self in, now i gotta get another risk getting punished from a GROUNDED oppenent? Shazam has nothing safe for doing anything against anyone and literally depends on random gimmicks and chance to win from both mid and long ranges cause we already know how garbage hes projectile is. Even Capcom was smart enough to give Zangief his green hand for getting in at mid ranges in the latter editions. Seriously I made a self promise to play this character this whole month, but when a chacters general strategy depends on the blessing of God, or the stupidity of the oppenent, im at my wits end. I don't know what to call the archetype of the character. I would compare him most to El Fuete from SS4 but that would be degrading for him. NR im calling you out formaking the most unthoughful, horribly balanced character I have ever layed my eyes on and played with my controller. Im actually considering going to bane, Grundy or even Lobo now. How do you guys deal with this bs? Do you guys have anything, ANY REASON i should push on with the character?


Always,
A dedicated member of the FGC
 

SmokeMaster

I got no time for whining!!!
All I can say is if you feel like you are not gaining any progress with Shazam then he may not be the character for you. There seems to be alot of people in this forum who complain about his faults instead of accepting them and moving forward. Everything you mention from his dash to his jump ins are true to some extent. However, it's not the moves that are unsafe but how you are using them against your opponent that make them seem unsafe. I'll tackle your first issue and go down from there.

Dashing - This is his fastest tool of movement. However, like most characters in this game Shazam is at a disadvantage when performing it. If you find that your opponent is snuffing out your attempts to close space it may be wise to just walk them to the corner. I know this seems tedious but you have to respect your opponents reaction time even if it maybe better then yours. I had this same issue happen to me at my weekly gathering. It only came to me after I lost that I should of walked them to the corner instead of trying to force my way in. Shazam has the tools to lock his opponent down. The main part is getting in there. That is all about analyzing and conditioning your opponent so you can execute your strategy.

Atlas Torpedo (AT) - There is a thread in here that list all characters that can punish AT. Not sure where, but you should check it out for future matchups. I'll say this much if your opponent is consistently blocking and punishing AT then it would be wise not to use it outside of combos. Basically, you need to anaylize the match and execute moves accordingly. Throwing out random AT will produce random results. However, if you condition your opponent you are more likely to land a AT on them when normally it wouldn't connect. Also, if you perform it at close range it is much harder if at all for your opponent to punish you.

Teleport - You need to give this move some credit. It's his best meter building tool and it get's you out of alot of situations. On top of that it's his main zoning tool. Now if you are getting punished for teleporting then that means you are using it at the wrong times and the wrong situations. You shouldn't use teleport to close space while your opponent is able to attack you. You know as well as I and everyone else that plays with Shazam how vunurable teleport is on startup and recovery. Instead use teleport when your opponent is not able to attack you on startup or recovery (ie. knockdown, blockstrings, wakeup, projectiles). Simple enough, right?

Jump Ins - These are always debatable outside of a knockdown. It really has to do with timing the ground attacks. If you do a jumpin attack and follow up with a decent normal like d1 or 2 then your opponent will not be able to retaliate. You gave the example of j2,2,2 and Catwoman's Evade. I'm going to assume that she was able to evade the last attack because that is not a true block string. Every character can back dash the last hit of 22 on block. Still this doesn't mean that it's useless. This is where analyzing and conditioning your opponent comes in handy. In this situation with Catwoman being able to evade your blockstring it would be wise instead of doing 22 to do 2, bf2 (AT). It's safe and will produce better results if she executes evade. It's best to go into training and test the advantage for your moves. Try not to soley rely on the data put forth by Nether Realm. It can be misleading.

Command Grabs - Alright so imagine if you will that you were playing with Zangief. Only he does 50% less damage on his command grabs but he has Makato's dash, a watered down teleport like Dhalsim, and a high tiger shot like Sagat. Now alot of people who play Street Fighter would say that Zangief would be beyond broken. Now I'm assuming that this is what you were implying when you were complaining about Shazam's command grabs. Giving him a command grab that would connect on standing and crouching opponents and lead into 40% or so damage would make him broken. So if you are having trouble landing his grabs you should try conditioning your opponent to guard in a certain state so that your grabs have a much more higher percentage of connecting then if you were to just guess. What I like to do is do b2, teleport to condition my opponent to block high. If he decides to back dash or jump before the b2 connects then the option select on 3 will connect and I get a free combo. If he blocks the b2 then the option select 3 will teleport me to safety. After awhile when I notice that my opponent is blocking high in anticipation I will execute his Herculean Might and get at least 40% damage.

Throughout this long drawn post to yours there was one point I was really trying to "drive home". That was analyzing and conditioning your opponent to make smart moves. Now alot of people get the term smart confused with clever. Clever would be if you substitute a low attack for an overhead in an attack string. Smart would be conditioning your opponent to guard low so the overhead hits. Like I said before if you do random moves they will produce random results. Now this is in no way a post that solves all of Shazam's issues or a direct message to you SuppaSapien3. This is a message to everyone who is having issues with Shazam and see no way of progressing. He will still have bad match-ups, but that's not going to stop me from playing him. I hope it doesn't stop the rest of you either.
 

SuppaSapien3

Chipotle and Olive Garden are NOT authentic
I appreciate the long and thoughtful reply. Its just when I pick up a character I'm really stubborn to keep playing them. I guess I just gotta be more patient with Shazam and play him like a fortress. I feel like a target though, and don't believe Shazam is a complete character. It is what it is though :p
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Hi, fellow Shazam players.

I was wondering if you guys had any BnBs centered around building meter, or any of them that happen to build it meterless or can build it back well?

I've been using pop-ups where I can make HM whiff and still connect something else for that little bit of extra meter, an example would be
b.23 d.2xxHM f.12xxAC -22%
d.2xxHM d.1xxAC (grounded opponent) - 15%

I don't remember the latter, but the former builds right under a third of a bar of meter. If d.2 didn't scale too much the damage might not suck as bad but it's for the meter (and the 50/50! :3)

so if anyone has more damaging/meter-gaining combos please let me know, I'd love to improve my Batson. Thank you! <3
 

jaym7018

Warrior
Ive been dabbling in this character recently and hes a lot of fun but i just cant get passed the 2 throws 1 for a high 1 for a low. Every other character with an unblockable grab doesnt have to deal with that nonsense and its not like the range is that much bigger than banes or lobos. I wish they woulda just made his low grab an anti air grab instead.
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Ive been dabbling in this character recently and hes a lot of fun but i just cant get passed the 2 throws 1 for a high 1 for a low. Every other character with an unblockable grab doesnt have to deal with that nonsense and its not like the range is that much bigger than banes or lobos. I wish they woulda just made his low grab an anti air grab instead.
actually KF and Harley have throws that hit high. Shazam's is also 11 frames, making it a really good whiff punish option

Shazam is also really vortex heavy and has probably some of the nastier set ups. I'll be posting them as soon as I've finished testing every character's wake up options.
 

jaym7018

Warrior
actually KF and Harley have throws that hit high. Shazam's is also 11 frames, making it a really good whiff punish option

Shazam is also really vortex heavy and has probably some of the nastier set ups. I'll be posting them as soon as I've finished testing every character's wake up options.
Harley and KF only use their throws to end a juggle combo. Landing a naked grab is a big part of shazams game
 

juicepouch

blink-182 enthusiast
Ive been dabbling in this character recently and hes a lot of fun but i just cant get passed the 2 throws 1 for a high 1 for a low. Every other character with an unblockable grab doesnt have to deal with that nonsense and its not like the range is that much bigger than banes or lobos. I wish they woulda just made his low grab an anti air grab instead.

AC is kinda goofy, but it can be useful. TKT ZigZag showed me the usefulness of B123, which ends in that low kick. If you can land that a few times, you can condition the opponent to block low, and then the added range on AC allows you to hit it raw. I mainly use it as a mindgame along with the rest of Shazam's tools. Not the most useful, but I guess it could be worse
 

RYX

BIG PUSHER
Harley and KF only use their throws to end a juggle combo. Landing a naked grab is a big part of shazams game
that's why you make them respect his overheads (namely b.2)

or improve your ability to whiff punish with it