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Scorpion General Discussion

DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I lowkey think SR counters Skarlet more so that Reborn. Flame buff is pretty safe to get out and she has a really hard time punishing death spin. You just chip her out and its range is actually really far, thus making it a stupid, safe reversal when she does her long range normal staggers. Then she goes for parry and then shes gonna eat those 40% combos LUL
 
Scoot Magee

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
I gotta say, I struggle the most against characters like Johnny cage and liu kang. I play mostly sr but I feel reborn is a little better in these match ups.

I think the reason scorpion struggles in these matches is because there is no comfortable spot for him to be on screen. Ds and spears are easily punished from any range and both characters have very fast fireballs which makes it hard to teleport. They also both deal a tremendous amount of damage for punishes as well.

Up close and footsie range I believe scorpion struggles a lot as well. Both characters have very fast advancing strings that lead to stagger pressure and make it really hard to play scorpions shimmy game. Not to mention you're in hell if they block b143, this is why I think reborn is better for these matches.

Dealing with their pressure is pretty tough. I feel throwing or jumping the staggers may be the best bet in a lot of cases but its risky. D1 is a good option but if they block they just continue pressure again. Theres always d1xx ds but it's a big risk. It's losing battle imo but it should be that way if those characters are in your face. My main issue is how easy it is for them to get there.

Anyone else have opinions on these match ups?

Also geras is a very hard match as well.
 
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Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
GothamInGray said:
I'll pick SR over Reborn every time for the added option of Death Spin as an anti-air if nothing else. Such a useful tool.
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Standing 4 is a better aa than DS in my opinion. Same start up frames but easier to input (a single botton vs a special input), combos into spear and more if you have meter. It doesnt cover as much screen of course but if you are reacting to a jump in I think 4 is the better aa button.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Scoot Magee said:
I gotta say, I struggle the most against characters like Johnny cage and liu kang. I play mostly sr but I feel reborn is a little better in these match ups.

I think the reason scorpion struggles in these matches is because there is no comfortable spot for him to be on screen. Ds and spears are easily punished from any range and both characters have very fast fireballs which makes it hard to teleport. They also both deal a tremendous amount of damage for punishes as well.

Up close and footsie range I believe scorpion struggles a lot as well. Both characters have very fast advancing strings that lead to stagger pressure and make it really hard to play scorpions shimmy game. Not to mention you're in hell if they block b143, this is why I think reborn is better for these matches.

Dealing with their pressure is pretty tough. I feel throwing or jumping the staggers may be the best bet in a lot of cases but its risky. D1 is a good option but if they block they just continue pressure again. Theres always d1xx ds but it's a big risk. It's losing battle imo but it should be that way if those characters are in your face. My main issue is how easy it is for them to get there.

Anyone else have opinions on these match ups?

Also geras is a very hard match as well.
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I think this is a perfect example of why Reborn is really good. Anyone that really has a better up close mid than f3.... you should be using Reborn. He then has the ability to stay outside of his comfort zone at all times. Just hitconfirm b1, f4, (OS b2) and if its blocked you just telecancel back to full screen and start over.

Scorp really has two options against people with great mids.... and this is to poke or reversal throw. Not going to lie... just doing d1~telecancel full screen is sometimes the best option to just get away from effing Johnny Cage. Dear lord.

I dont' struggle against Geras as much... because I just jump alot. He really doesn't have much that can handle Scorpion just jumping around and mixing him that way. Reborn or SR can do this... reborn has the added ability to jump tele cancel into full screen and see if Geras pushed a button and teleport him again. I think alot of people underestimate Scorpion just jumping around. He has good "footsie" tools... but sometimes you have to ignore that and be a huge jerk.
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
I think this is a perfect example of why Reborn is really good. Anyone that really has a better up close mid than f3.... you should be using Reborn. He then has the ability to stay outside of his comfort zone at all times. Just hitconfirm b1, f4, (OS b2) and if its blocked you just telecancel back to full screen and start over.

Scorp really has two options against people with great mids.... and this is to poke or reversal throw. Not going to lie... just doing d1~telecancel full screen is sometimes the best option to just get away from effing Johnny Cage. Dear lord.

I dont' struggle against Geras as much... because I just jump alot. He really doesn't have much that can handle Scorpion just jumping around and mixing him that way. Reborn or SR can do this... reborn has the added ability to jump tele cancel into full screen and see if Geras pushed a button and teleport him again. I think alot of people underestimate Scorpion just jumping around. He has good "footsie" tools... but sometimes you have to ignore that and be a huge jerk.
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The reasons why I only use Reborn are all of the above. Basically all of the top characters have mids that are better than f3 so you need that telecancel.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
NRF CharlieMurphy said:
I think this is a perfect example of why Reborn is really good. Anyone that really has a better up close mid than f3.... you should be using Reborn. He then has the ability to stay outside of his comfort zone at all times. Just hitconfirm b1, f4, (OS b2) and if its blocked you just telecancel back to full screen and start over.

Scorp really has two options against people with great mids.... and this is to poke or reversal throw. Not going to lie... just doing d1~telecancel full screen is sometimes the best option to just get away from effing Johnny Cage. Dear lord.

I dont' struggle against Geras as much... because I just jump alot. He really doesn't have much that can handle Scorpion just jumping around and mixing him that way. Reborn or SR can do this... reborn has the added ability to jump tele cancel into full screen and see if Geras pushed a button and teleport him again. I think alot of people underestimate Scorpion just jumping around. He has good "footsie" tools... but sometimes you have to ignore that and be a huge jerk.
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That's true but I am sick of escaping all the time.
That was the case in MKX too though. I did many many away tele after blockstrings as Scorpion struggled against pressure a lot. Here it not that critical but happens too.

Here I use SR and rather accept the fact that I need better footsie or read. But obviously Reborn just work around the weaknesses properly.
 
NaughtySenpai

NaughtySenpai

Kombatant
Time to pick a new character. He's trash now. Reborn is deleted and even as SR you gotta call out d1 mashers with chains now and can't d1 xx hellport anymore. On top of that they nerfed d4 though I don't think the added recovery on block does much about its poking capability.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
NaughtySenpai said:
Time to pick a new character. He's trash now. Reborn is deleted and even as SR you gotta call out d1 mashers with chains now and can't d1 xx hellport anymore. On top of that they nerfed d4 though I don't think the added recovery on block does much about its poking capability.
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Thx for the list.

Lol they made teleport high.
So they really did not want to solve that "amp mixup issue" for the low level players but obviously caused potential whiffing issue with the teleport in the future.
Damn I just think about Cassie and unpunishable amp low gun shot LOL. I dunno if there are other moves we will see it.

Who was not able to react and block teleport will not be able to duck it either so yolo teleport still lives.

I dunno if that +5 recovery frames on D4 will cause big problems. Probably can not just drop in neutral mindlessly. Let's see it.

My SR play is not really affected (high teleport against low profile moves concernes me though) and may try to play Reborn with that circumstances. :D

I am interested in how the community will manage the new Scorpion.
I think lot of people will think he will easily beat Scorpion players now but to be honest it will be not the case.
I think people will duck more instead of blocking and that will also break their movement. Maybe not we will see it.
 
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NaughtySenpai

NaughtySenpai

Kombatant
Cya guys in the Skarlet forums, or Shang Tsung/Shao Kahn, I'm still torn.

I think they didn't do anything to Sub Zero so that might be an alternative too.

Had so much faith in them balancing properly and not just deleting tournament viable characters in favor of making others viable.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
Scorpion is still good but Reborn will not be able to pull some match up where the cancel was more of a thing than SR tools.

I hope high teleport will not mess up the whiff punishing too much - there are several low profile moves / strings / specials where it can be a problem and it will be not a good match up (e.g. Cassie).
We need to see it in practice.

And well yeah Reborn mixup is gone and can be used what it should be used to (escaping or whiff punishing). Everybody can decide if it is worth the variation or stick to SR.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
TP nerf was inevitable. Honestly it shouldn’t have ever been a mid starter. It’s super easy to neutral crouch punish it. However, it can still be amped on whiff. You still gotta have good reactions to punish it.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
OutworldKeith said:
TP nerf was inevitable. Honestly it shouldn’t have ever been a mid starter. It’s super easy to neutral crouch punish it. However, it can still be amped on whiff. You still gotta have good reactions to punish it.
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Okay I checked that Cassie's low shot is still punishable by hellport. Dev's cared about that move properly.

It whiffs on pokes of course.
I played few matches and ran into situations where I wanted to whiff punish a move as usual but that move was a D4 and whiffed. So yes no more "bypass neutral" in poke war or on simple button read as if this button is a poke you whiff.

D4 is -9 and yes feels slower. Was it -9 before?
"Scorpion - Quick Kick (Down + Back Kick) recovery increased by 5 frames " it nerfed the recovery only.

If it was -9 (and probably was) I did not really cared about that my bad. -9 is quite minus not to press buttons lol.

Btw Scorpion looks fine but I played SR so probably teleport mixup Reborn players are said mainly.
 
H

Hor_PeT

Kombatant
Wow I just saw D1 is +9 on hit so S2 does not jail officially.
Wasn't it +10 and could do it inconsistently before?

S1 from D1 is pretty consistent though (in practice room and in 250 ping game too) and it is the same for D3 into S2 too.
D3 is +11 and S2 jail is pretty consistent.

I tried it on Cassie duck phase.


I labbed Reborn TLC punish with D2:
You can D2 KB the TLC so it is good damage once per match guaranteed if you react properly.
The 2nd time it is just 14% - So if you wanna punish teleport (duck + S1 punish, block + punish) or cancel better (e.g. with S1) you need to run a mind game which is Scorpion's favor.
I think you can not punish both regular and cancel (into low profile) with the same Duck + S1 timing - or might be but on real match it is difficult as first you need to react to the tele then duck + S1 in proper timing.

But trying to get in against turtling opponent is pointless as you will always be punished.
Reborn will still have the threat of the teleport and cancel which makes the opponent more turtling and locking down... and it was still a complain.

For SR and regular teleport duck + S1 punish is consistent even if it is amped but in that case (and online) the block is still more reliable I think.

People are happy about the changes I am also happy to play Scorpion more in the future as people will not complain and hat as much. Or who knows... :D
 
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vegeta

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I used SR to begin with but having the TP high is slightly problematic in certain situations.
 
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