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General/Other - Scorpion Scorpion General Discussion

Which variation do you use the most?


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Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Guys, how does the community as a whole feel about the b3f1b option select? I heard Eddy is morally against it, but I want to hear what everyone thinks about it.
 
After I traveled through a lot of characters I decided to come back and main Scorpion (Inferno variation mostly). I want to win online matches and invest my time on Scorpion. Any advice would be very very very helpful!

@Eddy Wang
 
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Student

Noob
Guys, how does the community as a whole feel about the b3f1b option select? I heard Eddy is morally against it, but I want to hear what everyone thinks about it.
I'm conflicted. On the one hand I agree with Eddy and many others that in essence option selects enable the game to make decisions for you that are ultimately to your benefit. On the other hand it could be argued that these option selects require a certain level of execution and that, judging from the fact that devs haven't removed them, they've been deemed balanced.

I stand somewhere in between. If I had to choose a side, it would be to remove them completely. I say that because I don't think you can overvalue a player's decision making. This game is rife with mind games and complex decisions and I love that. Allowing a player to use option selects (execution heavy as they may or may not be) ultimately takes a decision that player has to make and removes it from the table. Could option selects potentially hinder that player's ability to express their own playstyle? I think so.

But some might say, "Well you could choose not to use them." And that's true. Maybe the devs removing them would be an even more heinous example of devaluing a player's ability to choose. But can we expect competitive players who are playing characters with viable option selects to not use them? Probably not.

As it stands now, they're there and it is what it is. I'll be practicing Scorpions and hopefully win some matches using it.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Picked up Hellfire over the weekend to compliment my Inferno and I am freaking loving it. I was kind of losing my love for Scorp because Inferno is very effective, but pretty boring to play for me...Hellfire is totally different...

What is everybody's favorite thing to do to condition people for the overhead? Right now I pretty much poke the crap out of people before I try to go into it or will sometimes just go into it off of fireball cancel pressure.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Picked up Hellfire over the weekend to compliment my Inferno and I am freaking loving it. I was kind of losing my love for Scorp because Inferno is very effective, but pretty boring to play for me...Hellfire is totally different...

What is everybody's favorite thing to do to condition people for the overhead? Right now I pretty much poke the crap out of people before I try to go into it or will sometimes just go into it off of fireball cancel pressure.
Do you have problems conditioning your opponents to block low? Really? When you start to use b3 cancels into full combo they will block low all the freaking time dude :)
 

Vagrant

Noob
Guys, how does the community as a whole feel about the b3f1b option select? I heard Eddy is morally against it, but I want to hear what everyone thinks about it.
Um. If it's in the game, expoloit it.

If you are competing with this character you use every advantage available to you. Your opponent is not going to decide not use option selects just because you don't use them. If they're being used in high level play, learn them and use them.

I haven't gotten them down completely but that's because I'm lazy and I'm not going to tourneys really besides occasional GBS locals. If I was traveling to compete It would make sense for me (or any MKX player really) to have all OS's down.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Do you have problems conditioning your opponents to block low? Really? When you start to use b3 cancels into full combo they will block low all the freaking time dude :)
I guess what I mean is more just conditioning them to block low to the point where they are not reacting to the overhead. I didn't know if people had some other juicy stuff since 25 frames is slooooooow. That is pretty much what I am doing now, b3 cancels and just abusing some of the low and trickier to block stuff.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Picked up Hellfire over the weekend to compliment my Inferno and I am freaking loving it. I was kind of losing my love for Scorp because Inferno is very effective, but pretty boring to play for me...Hellfire is totally different...

What is everybody's favorite thing to do to condition people for the overhead? Right now I pretty much poke the crap out of people before I try to go into it or will sometimes just go into it off of fireball cancel pressure.

the fast overhead you don't even really need them to be conditioned since it isn't reactable, has a great hitbox, and even anti airs if you space correctly. For F4 yeah probably after cancel pressure if they're really respecting. So like since you get another 214 after 214 fbrc maybe go for overhead there. Probably more likely to hit it once you establish d4 (super fucking good in midrange and offense) and b3. I honestly don't find I need f4 at all really in hellfire. He's just loaded with so much other shit.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
the fast overhead you don't even really need them to be conditioned since it isn't reactable, has a great hitbox, and even anti airs if you space correctly. For F4 yeah probably after cancel pressure if they're really respecting. So like since you get another 214 after 214 fbrc maybe go for overhead there. Probably more likely to hit it once you establish d4 (super fucking good in midrange and offense) and b3. I honestly don't find I need f4 at all really in hellfire. He's just loaded with so much other shit.
Yeah but the damage you get off of it is like totally demoralizing as your opponent loses half their health into a setup while thinking that they should have blocked it the entire 20 seconds the combo lasts. The pleasure I get from all this tells me that I do need it.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Yeah but the damage you get off of it is like totally demoralizing as your opponent loses half their health into a setup while thinking that they should have blocked it the entire 20 seconds the combo lasts. The pleasure I get from all this tells me that I do need it.
Yeah it gives him max damage. He gets (soap bar in my mouth) damage anyways though.

Here give this a try

21xxDB4, 214xxDB3, 214xxEXDB3, quick run cancel, 21xxspear, j2, F4xxDB4, 21 tele (guarunteed flame aura chip with 214fbrc214, or go for throw, or b3, or f2, or f4, or whatever)

Damage is (soap bar in my mouth) and the meter you build is hilarious with the chip.

Getting 21 after flame aura is a 2-3 frame link but you can get it consistent with practice.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Yeah but the damage you get off of it is like totally demoralizing as your opponent loses half their health into a setup while thinking that they should have blocked it the entire 20 seconds the combo lasts. The pleasure I get from all this tells me that I do need it.
Good player will always fuzzy guard it after a standing reset, so there is no point in using F4 in that situation at all, imo. But yes, some funky stuff may work, for example you can try to do it after jump-in 2 on block(since everyone will respect your blockstring and b3 options a lot more, and overhead isn't even guaranteed on blocked jump in punch), and you can try to rarely put it into blockstrings.
But yea, i love to do combos from this overhead too, it's a great feeling to get 45% + damage and keep going with pressure.

I have another question for you guys. What do you feel Scorpion's best options after your opponent fell on the ground? (Usual/hard knockdowns) I think i'm going too easy on my opponents. The main pressure and combo strings start with high, i'm even thinking of doing something like b1,2 fbc into pressure options, just to not let them poke out of pressure after getting up.
 

Vagrant

Noob
I have another question for you guys. What do you feel Scorpion's best options after your opponent fell on the ground? (Usual/hard knockdowns) I think i'm going too easy on my opponents. The main pressure and combo strings start with high, i'm even thinking of doing something like b1,2 fbc into pressure options, just to not let them poke out of pressure after getting up.
hellfire
ex hellfire (round closer)
b32f2
f2
d4
d3
throw
crossup
NJK

Those are usually what I find myself going for. Don't forget about hellfire! especially off of an air to air you know you aren't going to convert into a combo in time. Don't be afraid to go for hellfire. This will get them to start jumping more usually too.
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
I also like to go for counter-poke setups on knockdown/in general.

D3 D3 Flame Aura is the shit.
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
Yeah it gives him max damage. He gets (soap bar in my mouth) damage anyways though.

Here give this a try

21xxDB4, 214xxDB3, 214xxEXDB3, quick run cancel, 21xxspear, j2, F4xxDB4, 21 tele (guarunteed flame aura chip with 214fbrc214, or go for throw, or b3, or f2, or f4, or whatever)

Damage is (soap bar in my mouth) and the meter you build is hilarious with the chip.

Getting 21 after flame aura is a 2-3 frame link but you can get it consistent with practice.
Yeah the link is pretty easy, I just mash my string out after I see the fire start to go up/transfer over to my opponent's body. It seems like more than a 3 frame link tbh, I don't really miss it much at all and I wouldn't consider myself an execution maven.
 

Vagrant

Noob
Yeah the link is pretty easy, I just mash my string out after I see the fire start to go up/transfer over to my opponent's body. It seems like more than a 3 frame link tbh, I don't really miss it much at all and I wouldn't consider myself an execution maven.
Once you get it dialed in you're fine. I've noticed when I start missing it though I miss like 3 or 4 in a row. Almost like I've re taught myself the wrong timing. I don't know maybe it's more than a 3 frame link but it seems close to me.
 

Triplswing

your soe will BERRN
Good player will always fuzzy guard it after a standing reset, so there is no point in using F4 in that situation at all, imo. But yes, some funky stuff may work, for example you can try to do it after jump-in 2 on block(since everyone will respect your blockstring and b3 options a lot more, and overhead isn't even guaranteed on blocked jump in punch), and you can try to rarely put it into blockstrings.
But yea, i love to do combos from this overhead too, it's a great feeling to get 45% + damage and keep going with pressure.

I have another question for you guys. What do you feel Scorpion's best options after your opponent fell on the ground? (Usual/hard knockdowns) I think i'm going too easy on my opponents. The main pressure and combo strings start with high, i'm even thinking of doing something like b1,2 fbc into pressure options, just to not let them poke out of pressure after getting up.
That's actually not such a simple question. He has options but none of which are flawless.

-f2/b4 can be good for baiting wakeups but they can back dash both of those.
-close range jumpins (crossups) can be anti-aired by certain characters
-njk is a good pressure tool in the corner, especially if you time it properly, but some armored wakes can full combo punish it.
-after b121 and d2, EX hellfire is guaranteed if you do it fast enough because it has OTG properties, but it costs meter.
-f4 can be good if you have enough frames to get it out just as they stand.
-in most cases a simple teleport will stuff an armored wakeup, but that's a dangerous guess which you have to make on your own.
 

Student

Noob
That's actually not such a simple question. He has options but none of which are flawless.

-f2/b4 can be good for baiting wakeups but they can back dash both of those.
-close range jumpins (crossups) can be anti-aired by certain characters
-njk is a good pressure tool in the corner, especially if you time it properly, but some armored wakes can full combo punish it.
-after b121 and d2, EX hellfire is guaranteed if you do it fast enough because it has OTG properties, but it costs meter.
-f4 can be good if you have enough frames to get it out just as they stand.
-in most cases a simple teleport will stuff an armored wakeup, but that's a dangerous guess which you have to make on your own.
Awesome info! Added to http://testyourmight.com/threads/hellfire-questions-and-answers.52663/
 

Vagrant

Noob
So I don't really want to give this it's own thread because I don't want to draw attention to it.

But b32f2 is unsafe on block against raiden. It's not a braindead punish, the raiden player definitely has to practice it, but f1 definitely punishes b32f2.

It's not matchup breaking, you still have other low options and regardless, I doubt the majority of Raiden players will punish it consistently. So during a match, make sure to take note of if they're even aware they can punish after blocking the string.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
So I don't really want to give this it's own thread because I don't want to draw attention to it.

But b32f2 is unsafe on block against raiden. It's not a braindead punish, the raiden player definitely has to practice it, but f1 definitely punishes b32f2.

It's not matchup breaking, you still have other low options and regardless, I doubt the majority of Raiden players will punish it consistently. So during a match, make sure to take note of if they're even aware they can punish after blocking the string.
yea jax and liu kang can combo punish it also

EDIT:jax can kang cant
 
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1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
What can Jax and Kang use?
jaxs standing 1 and liu kang is f1 i think(its his 6 frame string starter), not easy punish like mentioned about radien above but its possible.
know theres a slim amount of 6 frame d1/d3 that can catch it also....but for whatever reason KL's 7 frame spin doesnt haha
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Premium Supporter
So I don't really want to give this it's own thread because I don't want to draw attention to it.

But b32f2 is unsafe on block against raiden. It's not a braindead punish, the raiden player definitely has to practice it, but f1 definitely punishes b32f2.

It's not matchup breaking, you still have other low options and regardless, I doubt the majority of Raiden players will punish it consistently. So during a match, make sure to take note of if they're even aware they can punish after blocking the string.
Um this is the easiest punish in the world with Cassie's flip kick. It is probably like 10/10 so be careful lol.