General/Other - Scorpion Scorpion General Discussion

[Train]

damn Foxy has strong Lao. question: if there any point trying to go for low after first 214 FRC ? So to go like this: 214 FRC B3 and than if they block go again FRC , if it hits go combo ?
cuz I saw that Foxy was not blocking low after first FRC, so b3 would connect ...

JTB where are u from ? UK ?

 

[Triplswing]

damn Foxy has strong Lao. question: if there any point trying to go for low after first 214 FRC ? So to go like this: 214 FRC B3 and than if they block go again FRC , if it hits go combo ?
cuz I saw that Foxy was not blocking low after first FRC, so b3 would connect ...

JTB where are u from ? UK ?

Assuming your inputs are tight, you can actually swap the second 214 for a b3, then FBRC and do another 214. If b3 connects you can hit confirm starting from 214, if not, end your blockstring however you like.

This is kind of annoying to do because of the ffb notation, but probably worthwhile if you can do it every time. It conditions them to crouchblock the whole thing, and that combined with the pressure from the string makes it surprisingly easy to land a f4.

Also, what are you guys doing after you are end up completing the blockstring? Personally, I always use the EX fireball, it's worth the meter and most of it is paid for by the blockstring itself. After that I noticed if you do a d1, it will consistently reach any character, and if you do it fast enough after EX fireball it's still a frametrap. Even better, if they don't block that d1 you ca immediately do another blockstring due to frame advantage and stamina recovery.

It's pretty neat I was playing this guy and I did a combo, did the blockstring ending with EX fireball, hit him with a d1, and chipped him to death from there.

Another option I've noticed is that b121 is pretty much free from after EX fireball. You probably won't hit confirm it in time but if it connects then EX hellfire is guaranteed. But in the corner you can do something terrible.

b121 in the corner and then do flame aura 5-10 frames after the recovery of said string, and it can hit them on the last frame of it's active window. If it hits you're can be up to +41, and if it's blocked you can be up to +17. You can use the 0 frame recovery of FA to either blow up EX wakes, or go into an unavoidable blockstring due to the weird abuse of FA's active window. Against anyone without a 12 frame armored wakeup you can totally option-select using 214 from there.

I actually made a post about it in the Takeda forum because he has absolutely nothing to escape this.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I do have a session I recorded against him this week, our connection isn't the best but fighting him offline didn't help matters much. I'll put up the session later tonight, if watching Scorpion get bodied constantly is upsetting then I recommend watching it with some booze handy

Video is up.

Kinda think to know what the problem is, besides of f0xy being f0xy you still let him get away with some stuff, there is also the whiff punishing 101 which f0xy is already using, you're not, there is a lot to talk in this MU.

I will give you a full feeback much later.

 

[JTB123]

Kinda think to know what the problem is, besides of f0xy being f0xy you still let him get away with some stuff, there is also the whiff punishing 101 which f0xy is already using, you're not, there is a lot to talk in this MU.

I will give you a full feeback much later.

Thanks Eddy, I appreciate it. I know I have much levelling up to do, but at the moment I just feel helpless in the matchup.

@Train Yeah I am from the UK.

Regarding B3 are you referring to a specific point in the video? If so it could be due to lag, our connection isn't perfect but it's decent enough, unfortunately I drop some stuff with the cancels.

B3 FBC can be interuppted by Lao with D1 or Spin and he can Ex spin through any cancel that isn't 214 which is why it's not as effective agasint him as it is the rest of the cast. Ex spin is kinda what makes this matchup so frustrating, Foxy has excellent reads so whenever I think to counter, I get spun, whenever I respect, I eat more pressure.

214 - FBC - 214 - FBC - B32F3 is completely safe and a true block string but your pressure comes to an end after B32F2.

Using B3 or F2 after 214 pressure is something I am using more now, but sometimes don't think to do it. I also think F3 could be useful for checking Lao's advancing mids more, but that's something I need to test in game.

@A F0xy Grampa What are your thoughts on this matchup?

 

[Eddy Wang]

First off, Foxy's reactions seems to be light years ahead of yours, combined that to the fact that this MU is getting into you, you just froze most of the time.

Scorpion teleport is fast enought to at least grant you a throw everytime Lao throws a low hat fullscreen, you let foxy throw a lot of low hat freely which was helping him building up his offense from fullscreen giving the fact that you were unable to match your reads with low hats.

Scorpion teleport its not solely used for counters, but it can also be used for escaping, you can from time to time, telecancel in between frame traps to escape, in most cases if they're mashing you will mostly likely to get a throw, or you could mix with flame aura, which would make them respect your defense more between frame traps.

Foxy has a strong read to punish jump ins, so the hat pressure is to force you to come into that are so he can be ready to you with Armored AAs, Scorpion has a strong air to air game, you should mostly be jumping only when they jump at you, considering how good foxy is at using this.

You're not poking enough, standing 1 is one of your best pokes, because is +1 on block, in many situations it would be advisable to use that instead of D4, so you can check them with D4 afterwards or bait a special or jump in, you can still be low profiled in some cases though.

When you check someone with D4, don't just charge in, foxy donwloaded this and was escaping by jumping, Flame aura is your best friends, low hat isn't exactly plus so why in many cases midscreen you just didn't backdash or tele canceled to get a throw in the oposite side or check them with a D4 in case they try to react on sight.

On the first matches, Foxy whiffed some Jump ins, any jump in from this game can be whiff punished on landing, you can ask Foxy yourself since he did this exact thing to you on the first match, and occassionally checked you with 11 in similar situations where you whiffed a jump in punch.

This is still one of the most informative videos i've ever did, but no one pay much atention to this:

pressuring with FBC to get damage is a suicidal tactic, it will only get you to spend stamina and a bar of meter, and in some cases getting punished at cost of trying to close space with FBC blockstrings.

There were situations where you got B32F2 to hit, if i were you, i would B3~FBC~114, the B3 and F3 are just for checking in this variation, unless you're unsure of yourself, if not, you can hit confirm B3~FB~backdash if they block, or B3~FBC~114 if it hits, i felt those were lacking

The rest is Yomi, guessing between pressure and spin is part of KL game, you just have to get inside your opponent's head to figure that stuff out, but since you can teleport out of pressure, this can keep him also in check.

There is also the fact that you're playing online, so some scorpion features are better used when your on a offline match, so i will give you that considering you couldn't hit links of flame aura online

 

[Eddy Wang]

@JTB123 there is also something we scorpion mains need to find a way to solve, which is the current problem of people jumping out of 214 and making the 3 hit whiff occasionally.

I need to see if i FBC i can connect another 21 into spear to convert into damage.

 

[JTB123]

Thanks for the write up @Eddy Wang , some very good points and a couple I had not thought of to be sure. We'll see how I do next time

I too have noticed people taking that third hit to get out of the FBC pressure, the people I play regularly do it often now but I still feel that's not bad for Scorpion necessarily. They are still eating more damage and a knock down which depending on their meter situation or wake ups gives you even more pressure or a chance to bait their wake up and punish.

I haven't seen anyone jump out though, 214 is a true block string is it not so they shouldn't be able to do that anyway.

 

[Triplswing]

Hey guys, a little more hellfire tech here.

Okay so after a hkd like f2, there is a certain timing where you can jump over the opponent and do a crossup fjp and if the opponent tries to wakeup uppercut they will either swing the wrong way or get interrupted. This gives me ideas because uppercut is 8 frames.

With the right timing, any EX wakeup will whiff unless it has a backward hitbox. They can stay down to mess up your timing but Scorpion is at little to no risk of being punished even if this does happen because AFAIK you can't do instant EX wakeups if you stay down. if they have a slide wakeup they can slide away, but then you can punish that with teleport without any trouble, even if you whiff the fjp.

But of course anyone can jump forward after a knockdown, the reason this is good for Scorpion is because fjp into 214 is uninterruptible, which means fjp is now a prefix for blockstring. and of course, this is still super hitconfirmable. Now already this seems nice, but even better, this makes f2 a serious threat from blockstring since it has a chance of reset. By that, I mean if you do f2 after you've exhausted your stamina, then fjp into 214, your stamina will have completely recovered by the time you get to the FBC. f2 also frametraps from the 214 FBC, just like b3.

*scorpion's diabolical laugh*

Also crouchjab is so super legit. I don't know why I wasn't spamming it before. Seriously, this blockstring is opening up so many options for hellfire that I couldn't possibly go back to inferno now.

 

[learis1]

Having a good time with Ninjutsu scorpion. It feels good being able to play the footsie game to some degree, granted my main source of dmg is still from his high/low into ex spear mixup. But I really like that footsies are at least relevant. It's very fulfilling knowing that I'm scoring dmg from pokes sometimes rather than mixups.

 

[Red Reaper]

This was really useful.. Thanx... What standard options (normals) do you think are good AA's for kross ups? I was messing with B1 but I don't know how I feel about it.

Also, what do you use for a regular AA?

 

[Eddy Wang]

This was really useful.. Thanx... What standard options (normals) do you think are good AA's for kross ups? I was messing with B1 but I don't know how I feel about it.

Also, what do you use for a regular AA?

If i'm not using hellfire i standing 1, since they have to telegraph their cross up, the time for it puts them in the window where i can jab them out of the air.

Which in consequence forces them to use jump ins very early, so i either uppercut them, or backdash away from it.

 

[1man3letters]

dont feel well and cant sleep, whats comes from that....

if sub zero does EX iceball and Scorpion does EX fireball the fireballs cancel eachother out SF style because they both eat projectiles haha

 

[Triplswing]

dont feel well and cant sleep, whats comes from that....

if sub zero does EX iceball and Scorpion does EX fireball the fireballs cancel eachother out SF style because they both eat projectiles haha

Is there a slow-motion dubstep explosion too?

 

[1man3letters]

Is there a slow-motion dubstep explosion too?

yea...

Spoiler

in my pants

 

[Red Reaper]

If i'm not using hellfire i standing 1, since they have to telegraph their cross up, the time for it puts them in the window where i can jab them out of the air.

Which in consequence forces them to use jump ins very early, so i either uppercut them, or backdash away from it.

Hmm... When I was testing it it wasn't working so well. But I'll try it again when I get a chance this weekend, otherwise I might just try to get good with B1.

Uppercut is very reliable though but I want to to get more damage.

 

[Triplswing]

Hmm... When I was testing it it wasn't working so well. But I'll try it again when I get a chance this weekend, otherwise I might just try to get good with B1.

Uppercut is very reliable though but I want to to get more damage.

I think scorpion's uppercut is enough for an anti air. It's the most consistent and reliable, and it does 14%. Ex hellfire is also completely guaranteed afterwards if you wanna spend a bar to tack on 9% damage.

If you anticipate a jumpin, you can use flame aura. It gets beat by certain jump attacks at tip range but it's otherwise a pretty decent option due to the active window and the fact that you can easily get over 40% if it connects.

 

[greenblob]

I think scorpion's uppercut is enough for an anti air. It's the most consistent and reliable, and it does 14%. Ex hellfire is also completely guaranteed afterwards if you wanna spend a bar to tack on 9% damage.

If you anticipate a jumpin, you can use flame aura. It gets beat by certain jump attacks at tip range but it's otherwise a pretty decent option due to the active window and the fact that you can easily get over 40% if it connects.

Really? ive had my uppercuts lose all the time to jump ins. i have i have to predict jump ins to beat them.

btw is there any uses for ex spear besides safer high/low options?

 

[Triplswing]

Really? ive had my uppercuts lose all the time to jump ins. i have i have to predict jump ins to beat them.

btw is there any uses for ex spear besides safer high/low options?

It connects after certain combos where regular bf1 won't because it has a slightly lower hotbox.

For example, it connects after 214 and it's safe. They also can't neutral duck it from this string so it's a no-risk option for inferno and ninjutsu (hellfire can hit confirm with his fireball cancel).

 

[Red Reaper]

I think scorpion's uppercut is enough for an anti air. It's the most consistent and reliable, and it does 14%. Ex hellfire is also completely guaranteed afterwards if you wanna spend a bar to tack on 9% damage.

If you anticipate a jumpin, you can use flame aura. It gets beat by certain jump attacks at tip range but it's otherwise a pretty decent option due to the active window and the fact that you can easily get over 40% if it connects.

Uppercut is good but why settle for less when you kan get a reset into meter building kancels..?

Flame Aura didn't seem that good when I tested it but I haven't messed with it that much. My best AA when I anticipate a jump has usually been Jump in Kick for that air to air into flame aura kombo.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Uppercut is good but why settle for less when you kan get a reset into meter building kancels..?

Flame Aura didn't seem that good when I tested it but I haven't messed with it that much. My best AA when I anticipate a jump has usually been Jump in Kick for that air to air into flame aura kombo.

Jump kick is 6 frames and has a lot of active frames, that is why it works better, in MKX the jabs have pretty much less active frames compared to MK9 that is why is hard to jab someone out of the air in MKX.

Scorpion standing 1 works, but the due the float system being different from every character, you have to learn how to jab everyone at their own pace its not universal, some have jump ins with so long hitboxes that can't be ducked, like Jax jump 1, Kung Jin jump 2 and Kung lao Jump 2, i'm sure there is more of these.

 

[learis1]

So I was fighting against a scorpion and I got caught in a "vortex" situation where I had to "guess" how to block. Except it made me realize something. I can react to the 25 frame overhead. I just hold down and block, and if I see the overhead coming I let go of the down button.

It's my opinion that at high level Scorpion's vortex is no threat at all and can be reacted to (except for if you choose to throw).

Is there something I'm missing?

 

[OutworldKeith]

So I was fighting against a scorpion and I got caught in a "vortex" situation where I had to "guess" how to block. Except it made me realize something. I can react to the 25 frame overhead. I just hold down and block, and if I see the overhead coming I let go of the down button.

It's my opinion that at high level Scorpion's vortex is no threat at all and can be reacted to (except for if you choose to throw).

Is there something I'm missing?

That's pretty much the "meat and potatoes " of Scorpion's Vortex.

What I like to do is use standing 1 after 2,1 xx TP ender. I believe it's +1 on block and it can be used for mind games.

After standing 1 is blocked I either walk backwards or throw. This will condition the opponent to press buttons when facing the same situation again. Once the mind game is present you can walk back whiff punish or JK xx TP. It's a really sweet setup.

 

[Triplswing]

So I was fighting against a scorpion and I got caught in a "vortex" situation where I had to "guess" how to block. Except it made me realize something. I can react to the 25 frame overhead. I just hold down and block, and if I see the overhead coming I let go of the down button.

It's my opinion that at high level Scorpion's vortex is no threat at all and can be reacted to (except for if you choose to throw).

Is there something I'm missing?

Another reason why Hellfire's blockstring is better. The pressure makes it harder to visually identify f4, as well as it always does some damage.

For HF and inferno, there's the f2 which can't be blocked on reaction, if you need it.

 

[Bombardier777]

Is it just me who's hitting DB4 and he teleports? I'm not inputing the wrong buttons.this doesnt always happen but when it does it annoying

 

[JDE]

I've been putting a lot more focus into him lately. I think he's really solid. Hopefully it all carries over in the offline scene.