General/Other - Ronin Ronin General Discussion Thread

[Tweedy]

Also, @hayatei do you have any advice on comboing meterlessly vs Goro, with B21 or B3?

 

[Rey]

Very nice post @Tweedy

 

[Invincible Salads]

He's all about advantageous mind games and micro reads. Similar to pre-XL Kung Lao. He has a good mixture of zoning, safe and plus pressure, meterbuilding, top tier spacing, average to ridiculous damage depending on what you land and convert with, etc.

I'll give like a semi-vague explanation on the mind games and micro reads.

You want to end most blockstrings with blade drop/quick kall, or spark/EX spark. Off of your main strings, F12 2+4 and B21 2+4, blade drop is +2. You can attempt to check your opponent with NJP/D1, block their armor or poke, space them out, or if you think they'll block, you can just go into F12 2+4. Off of F12 2+4 quick kall is actually +7 or +8. This grants you a guaranteed B1, S2, F1, or B2, unless they armor. This will earn respect that you can use for B3 and run up throws. Spark is -3 and EX spark is +6. EX spark is essentially no different than quick kall, except they might be able to poke out of B2. Normal spark is similar to Lao's regular orbiting hat on block, where you could get cheeky with a poke, backdash, armor, or just block them. It's also true after B3, B21 2+4, B11, etc. Ronin doesn't suffer from gaps, at all.

As far as blade drop and quick kall go, every string and normal has it's own individual frame data. I just don't want to be here all day, so I only talked about F12 2+4 and B21 2+4. They're the most important.

When playing the neutral note his new normal, B1, and string, B11. This normal and string is nothing short of absurd. Advances far enough to land at the start of the match, it's a mid, it's 11 frames, it has non-existent recovery. B1 is -2 on block and B11 is 0 on block. There are some characters that you can just go nuts on with this string when you have them in the corner. B112 also launches and is only -5. Crazy good.

From fullscreen you can zone with spark, blade drop + kall, and reflect. Ronin also retains tornado kick. EX spark eats about everything in the game.

If you need combos let me know.

bnb's? Sure, i more or less was trying ot under stand how to BEAT ronin, this will help though. But knowing when to poke out/armor/backdash and when to block is the question.

ronin and SR seem to be on the same level.

 

[wsj515]

If you need combos let me know.

Not to be that guy who's to lazy to go through the combo thread, but I'd love to know the optimal bnbs and regular conversions if its not too much trouble. I'm using a lot of janky ex bf2 combos and converting with either 21xxbf2 or d1xxdf1

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Not to be that guy who's to lazy to go through the combo thread, but I'd love to know the optimal bnbs and regular conversions if its not too much trouble. I'm using a lot of janky ex bf2 combos and converting with either 21xxbf2 or d1xxdf1

I can try to give you the optimal bnbs/conversions but there may be better. Basically, you ideally wanna be doing meterless combos, and for the most part most combos end the same way, so for now I'll cover meterless and 1 bars.

One thing to note is that if you wanna go for raw damage, it's best to end in 44 if possible. If you want to reset you use df3 or blade drop into f12 pressure.

Lastly, any over a bar is essentially just 21 ex bf2 however many times into ender, but in some situations, the gravity may be too low for some enders such as blade drop which is negative or punishable and bf2 which will connect on block instead so bear that in mind. Use bf2 for plus frames, df1 for a bit of extra damage, df3 for reset, blade drop for f12 pressure.

B21 starter;
Meterless: B21 blade drop, blade call, d1, 21 into ender(bf2 for plus frames, df1 for a bit of extra damage, df3 for reset, blade drop for f12 pressure. Note that this doesn't work for large characters.)
1 bar: B212+4, blade drop, ex blade call, njp, 21, ender.


F122+4:
Meterless, with blade: F122+4, ender
Meterless without blade: F12+4 blade call, run, 21, ender
Meterless in corner, blade(difficult): f122+4 blade drop, d1, f12+4 bf2.
Meterless in corner, no blade: F122+4 first hit, slightly delayed 112, 21, ender(doesn't work on females, just remove 112.)

21, 33, 44, B11 and 112 all use the same combos with 44 doing the highest damage. 33 can use the same combo as b21 meterless however.

Meterless: Starter, ender(very simple lol)
1 bar: Starter, bf2, 21, ender or 44, df1.

B112:
Meterless:
B112, 21, ender or 44, df1
1 bar: B112, 21, blade drop, ex blade call, njp, 21, ender.

Njp:
Meterless: njp, 21, ender or 44,df1
1 bar: njp, 21, ex bf2, 21, ender or 44, df1.

All I can think of man. Hope I helped out.

 

[wsj515]

I can try to give you the optimal bnbs/conversions but there may be better. Basically, you ideally wanna be doing meterless combos, and for the most part most combos end the same way, so for now I'll cover meterless and 1 bars.

One thing to note is that if you wanna go for raw damage, it's best to end in 44 if possible. If you want to reset you use df3 or blade drop into f12 pressure.

Lastly, any over a bar is essentially just 21 ex bf2 however many times into ender, but in some situations, the gravity may be too low for some enders such as blade drop which is negative or punishable and bf2 which will connect on block instead so bear that in mind. Use bf2 for plus frames, df1 for a bit of extra damage, df3 for reset, blade drop for f12 pressure.

B21 starter;
Meterless: B21 blade drop, blade call, d1, 21 into ender(bf2 for plus frames, df1 for a bit of extra damage, df3 for reset, blade drop for f12 pressure. Note that this doesn't work for large characters.)
1 bar: B212+4, blade drop, ex blade call, njp, 21, ender.


F122+4:
Meterless, with blade: F122+4, ender
Meterless without blade: F12+4 blade call, run, 21, ender
Meterless in corner, blade(difficult): f122+4 blade drop, d1, f12+4 bf2.
Meterless in corner, no blade: F122+4 first hit, slightly delayed 112, 21, ender(doesn't work on females, just remove 112.)

21, 33, 44, B11 and 112 all use the same combos with 44 doing the highest damage. 33 can use the same combo as b21 meterless however.

Meterless: Starter, ender(very simple lol)
1 bar: Starter, bf2, 21, ender or 44, df1.

B112:
Meterless:
B112, 21, ender or 44, df1
1 bar: B112, 21, blade drop, ex blade call, njp, 21, ender.

Njp:
Meterless: njp, 21, ender or 44,df1
1 bar: njp, 21, ex bf2, 21, ender or 44, df1.

All I can think of man. Hope I helped out.

Thanks for the help, don't want to seem ungrateful but this seems a bit incomplete and a some of them are very distance dependent - b21 meterless for example only works point blank, b212+4xxfar blade drop, blade call, d1xxdf1 works at much longer range. Some of your notation seems wrong also and a bit inconsistent which makes it hard to read.

 

[Harlequin969]

He's all about advantageous mind games and micro reads. Similar to pre-XL Kung Lao. He has a good mixture of zoning, safe and plus pressure, meterbuilding, top tier spacing, average to ridiculous damage depending on what you land and convert with, etc.

I'll give like a semi-vague explanation on the mind games and micro reads.

You want to end most blockstrings with blade drop/quick kall, or spark/EX spark. Off of your main strings, F12 2+4 and B21 2+4, blade drop is +2. You can attempt to check your opponent with NJP/D1, block their armor or poke, space them out, or if you think they'll block, you can just go into F12 2+4. Off of F12 2+4 quick kall is actually +7 or +8. This grants you a guaranteed B1, S2, F1, or B2, unless they armor. This will earn respect that you can use for B3 and run up throws. Spark is -3 and EX spark is +6. EX spark is essentially no different than quick kall, except they might be able to poke out of B2. Normal spark is similar to Lao's regular orbiting hat on block, where you could get cheeky with a poke, backdash, armor, or just block them. It's also true after B3, B21 2+4, B11, etc. Ronin doesn't suffer from gaps, at all.

As far as blade drop and quick kall go, every string and normal has it's own individual frame data. I just don't want to be here all day, so I only talked about F12 2+4 and B21 2+4. They're the most important.

When playing the neutral note his new normal, B1, and string, B11. This normal and string is nothing short of absurd. Advances far enough to land at the start of the match, it's a mid, it's 11 frames, it has non-existent recovery. B1 is -2 on block and B11 is 0 on block. There are some characters that you can just go nuts on with this string when you have them in the corner. B112 also launches and is only -5. Crazy good.

From fullscreen you can zone with spark, blade drop + kall, and reflect. Ronin also retains tornado kick. EX spark eats about everything in the game.

If you need combos let me know.

@Invincible Salads

 

[Invincible Salads]

so i've decided....i fawkin love ronin.

a safe launching mid string with no gaps AND range? safe confirmable 50/50's o: and pressure. so guuud.

why did i not use this variation before?

 

[SonicNinja3532]

Thanks for the help, don't want to seem ungrateful but this seems a bit incomplete and a some of them are very distance dependent - b21 meterless for example only works point blank, b212+4xxfar blade drop, blade call, d1xxdf1 works at much longer range. Some of your notation seems wrong also and a bit inconsistent which makes it hard to read.

Would you mind telling me what notations I got wrong so I can correct it? I only really covered the main things I tend to use so I'm open to more options.

 

[Superior]

Can anyone tell me the block adv for b11 and 21 after blade drop and quick kall?

 

[Invincible Salads]

wait, how do u combo off of normal blade call, i've tried and cant do it unless its out of the 3rd of f122+4.

 

[GOOD DRAGON]

wait, how do u combo off of normal blade call, i've tried and cant do it unless its out of the 3rd of f122+4.

Im pretty sure its string specific- so B21 normal blade drop and blade call, you can down 1 before they hit the floor and connect 21 straight after the d1. You can also do it off his low starter, B2 and the string you mentioned. Another tip is don't rush the whole thing i find that there's a specific relatively relaxed timing to it that - so not too fast and not so slow that it doesn't combo.

 

[Tweedy]

There's a couple fixes that I really want if KP3 is a possibility.

We need to be able to combo Goro consistently meterlessly. This drives me nuts lol.

B21 2+4 xx regular spark should connect in the corner. There's no reason it should whiff on females/Alien imo. It's not a big deal but it bothers me.

wait, how do u combo off of normal blade call, i've tried and cant do it unless its out of the 3rd of f122+4.

It depends on the spacing really. The most practical one is B21 and B2. Just make sure you're not too far away from them and do B21 xx mid blade drop and kall, d1, 21 xx fist flurry.

B3 also works. Do B3 and wait for a good second, maybe slightly less than a second. If they just barely get caught by it and flip around, you're doing it too early. If you do it too late i'm pretty sure it won't even combo, they'll just eat all 3 hits of the blade.

Keep in mind that when doing B3 meterless combos on bigger hitboxes, they'll get caught up severely by the blade and go really high lol. It's kind of goofy. You can still combo them with F1 or 21, and probably a couple other things. D1 typically won't connect because they'll be farther out, so you have to react to whether or not they launch that way, or the normal way that smaller hitboxes would.

You can also be a swag lord like Hayatei and combo off of B21 2+4 with far blade drop + kall and d1 xx df1.

Edit: Some hitboxes allow you to combo B3 with no timing, and it'll give you a smaller launch than B21 and how B3 is supposed to. Don't settle for this, this is not the optimal way my friends.

Keep in mind that B21 xx blade drop is around -9 or -10, so when going for the big money meterless combo, you're risking getting punished and losing those plus frames that B21 2+4 grants. I would only do it as a punish, or versus someone who can't block the string.

 

[Tweedy]

Not to be that guy who's to lazy to go through the combo thread, but I'd love to know the optimal bnbs and regular conversions if its not too much trouble. I'm using a lot of janky ex bf2 combos and converting with either 21xxbf2 or d1xxdf1

Sorry, I guess I completely missed this post.

21 xx bf2 is good. If you want optimal damage off of a lot of stuff, you want to end with 44 xx df1, as long as the gravity permits.

So you can do like B21 xx mid drop + kall, d1, 21 xx EX bf2, run, 44 xx df1, for 42%. You can look to end any combos with this, that ends with 21 bf2, for more damage.

21 xx regular spark is a good ender to combos with heavy gravity. Spark is +9 on hit so they have to hold basically anything that you do, unless they armor. B11 can break a lot of armor as well. I'll typically use this when I do the combos with 2-3 EX bf2s in them.

In the corner you can actually throw in a rep of 112 after launching with B112. So the combo is B112, 112, 21 xx bf2.

If you have the blade on the ground, get a punish, and have meter to do a huge combo, you can kall the blade back with F1 2+4(first hit) xx quick kall, run 21 xx bf2 or EX bf2.

I think Ronin should always go into B21 2+4 xx far drop, on block. This way you can get a better meterless conversion with d1 xx df1, and you're +2 on block, instead of -9 with B21. As you said B21 is spacing dependant when trying to combo meterlessly, so unless you get a good punish or you're super confident that it'll land, it's better to just do B21 2+4. If you have meter to blow, mid drop is obviously better.

I explained how B3 works above in my last post. Remember that EX spark and spark are true strings after B3, so that's cool to throw in there.

Also, when blade is down, and you land F12 2+4 in the corner, you can kall it and convert with d1, 21 xx bf2 on male hitboxes. On females you have to do d1, 112 xx df1.

Off of NJPs I always do 44 xx bf2. It keeps it simple, it's optimal when the blade is down, etc. If I have meter to blow and I have the blade, i'll use 21 then. If you have meter to blow and the blade is down, you can immediately cancel the NJP into quick kall and do run 21 xx bf2 or EX bf2.

There's probably a more optimal NJP corner in the combo without the blade. I'm just not aware of it.

B112 at max range does not lead into a clean 21 xx bf2. The bf2 comes up short. If I land B112 at like the start of a round, i'll just do F3 for the hard knockdown. If you have meter you can do 21 xx mid drop xx EX kall, off of a max range B112.

That's pretty much it really. I probably left out a tip or two that I have. If you have any questions let me know.

 

[Tweedy]

So I was annoyed with the NJP combo that I gave you in the corner. I didn't really give you one. So my swag lord friends, I went to ze lab.

Best I've found without the blade, is 29% using NJP, jump 3, 33 xx quick kall, d1, 112 xx df1. 29%.

 

[wsj515]

Sorry, I guess I completely missed this post.

21 xx bf2 is good. If you want optimal damage off of a lot of stuff, you want to end with 44 xx df1, as long as the gravity permits.

So you can do like B21 xx mid drop + kall, d1, 21 xx EX bf2, run, 44 xx df1, for 42%. You can look to end any combos with this, that ends with 21 bf2, for more damage.

21 xx regular spark is a good ender to combos with heavy gravity. Spark is +9 on hit so they have to hold basically anything that you do, unless they armor. B11 can break a lot of armor as well. I'll typically use this when I do the combos with 2-3 EX bf2s in them.

In the corner you can actually throw in a rep of 112 after launching with B112. So the combo is B112, 112, 21 xx bf2.

If you have the blade on the ground, get a punish, and have meter to do a huge combo, you can kall the blade back with F1 2+4(first hit) xx quick kall, run 21 xx bf2 or EX bf2.

I think Ronin should always go into B21 2+4 xx far drop, on block. This way you can get a better meterless conversion with d1 xx df1, and you're +2 on block, instead of -9 with B21. As you said B21 is spacing dependant when trying to combo meterlessly, so unless you get a good punish or you're super confident that it'll land, it's better to just do B21 2+4. If you have meter to blow, mid drop is obviously better.

I explained how B3 works above in my last post. Remember that EX spark and spark are true strings after B3, so that's cool to throw in there.

Also, when blade is down, and you land F12 2+4 in the corner, you can kall it and convert with d1, 21 xx bf2 on male hitboxes. On females you have to do d1, 112 xx df1.

Off of NJPs I always do 44 xx bf2. It keeps it simple, it's optimal when the blade is down, etc. If I have meter to blow and I have the blade, i'll use 21 then. If you have meter to blow and the blade is down, you can immediately cancel the NJP into quick kall and do run 21 xx bf2 or EX bf2.

There's probably a more optimal NJP corner in the combo without the blade. I'm just not aware of it.

B112 at max range does not lead into a clean 21 xx bf2. The bf2 comes up short. If I land B112 at like the start of a round, i'll just do F3 for the hard knockdown. If you have meter you can do 21 xx mid drop xx EX kall, off of a max range B112.

That's pretty much it really. I probably left out a tip or two that I have. If you have any questions let me know.

I've recently found some interesting meterless blade call stuff, seems that if you b21 at mid/max range you can close drop/call and follow up with 21. You can also get 21 to connect if all 3 hits of blade call connect on b3xxmid drop/call.

 

[Tweedy]

I've recently found some interesting meterless blade call stuff, seems that if you b21 at mid/max range you can close drop/call and follow up with 21. You can also get 21 to connect if all 3 hits of blade call connect on b3xxmid drop/call.

Is that B3 conversion when it catches them weird and they go super high? I mentioned that earlier, it does that with big hitboxes.

After I posted earlier, I was messing around with B11. You can convert meterlessly with B11 xx mid drop + kall, at the start of a match. It might depend on a character's hitbox. I was practicing vs Mileena.

 

[wsj515]

Is that B3 conversion when it catches them weird and they go super high? I mentioned that earlier, it does that with big hitboxes.

happens with every character not just big body, its caused by your callback timing

 

[Invincible Salads]

There's a couple fixes that I really want if KP3 is a possibility.

We need to be able to combo Goro consistently meterlessly. This drives me nuts lol.

B21 2+4 xx regular spark should connect in the corner. There's no reason it should whiff on females/Alien imo. It's not a big deal but it bothers me.



It depends on the spacing really. The most practical one is B21 and B2. Just make sure you're not too far away from them and do B21 xx mid blade drop and kall, d1, 21 xx fist flurry.

B3 also works. Do B3 and wait for a good second, maybe slightly less than a second. If they just barely get caught by it and flip around, you're doing it too early. If you do it too late i'm pretty sure it won't even combo, they'll just eat all 3 hits of the blade.

Keep in mind that when doing B3 meterless combos on bigger hitboxes, they'll get caught up severely by the blade and go really high lol. It's kind of goofy. You can still combo them with F1 or 21, and probably a couple other things. D1 typically won't connect because they'll be farther out, so you have to react to whether or not they launch that way, or the normal way that smaller hitboxes would.

You can also be a swag lord like Hayatei and combo off of B21 2+4 with far blade drop + kall and d1 xx df1.

Edit: Some hitboxes allow you to combo B3 with no timing, and it'll give you a smaller launch than B21 and how B3 is supposed to. Don't settle for this, this is not the optimal way my friends.

Keep in mind that B21 xx blade drop is around -9 or -10, so when going for the big money meterless combo, you're risking getting punished and losing those plus frames that B21 2+4 grants. I would only do it as a punish, or versus someone who can't block the string.

i've tried b3 blade toss blade call and cant combo off it at all, does it only work on big hitbox char's like ferrator?

 

[Tweedy]

i've tried b3 blade toss blade call and cant combo off it at all, does it only work on big hitbox char's like ferrator?

It works on everyone. There's a timing in between when all 3 hits connect, and when it doesn't really combo them at all, where they'll get hit twice and it'll launch them, like with B21 mid drop + kall. Sometimes all 3 hits will land and it'll launch them, but I've only been able to do that with larger hitboxes. The 2 hit launch however can definitely be done consistently on even the smallest hitboxes.

Don't kall right away. You have to wait for a deceptively long time before you kall. If all 3 hit and it doesn't combo, you know you were too late. It's right before that.

 

[Invincible Salads]

It works on everyone. There's a timing in between when all 3 hits connect, and when it doesn't really combo them at all, where they'll get hit twice and it'll launch them, like with B21 mid drop + kall. Sometimes all 3 hits will land and it'll launch them, but I've only been able to do that with larger hitboxes. The 2 hit launch however can definitely be done consistently on even the smallest hitboxes.

Don't kall right away. You have to wait for a deceptively long time before you kall. If all 3 hit and it doesn't combo, you know you were too late. It's right before that.

iguess, i'd rather not try that pain in the butt and just mb the call on hitconfirm afterdoing b3~toss

 

[Tweedy]

iguess, i'd rather not try that pain in the butt and just mb the call on hitconfirm afterdoing b3~toss

The timing is always the same. It's like linking standing 2 or anything after Scorpion's flame aura. Once you get it down, it's easy money. I'd definitely recommend that you spend a little bit of time grinding it out. It'll become harder to not launch them, once you've drilled it into your muscle memory.

 

[Tweedy]

happens with every character not just big body, its caused by your callback timing

Yeah, I've never had this happen vs female hitboxes.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, you mean all 3 hits of the blade, not 3 hits in general, right? When I say 2 hits of the blade launching them, i'm not counting the B3.

Mileena is the main character I practice against. Through 100+ reps of the combo, I don't think I could have missed getting the 3 hit launch, every time, unless i'm doing it completely wrong.

 

[SnowboardRX]

i've tried b3 blade toss blade call and cant combo off it at all, does it only work on big hitbox char's like ferrator?

It works on all characters.
I find that doing JIP2, b3, blade toss/call seems to work the most consistent where it launches them a little higher so you can just hit 21(choice of combos).

 

[wsj515]

Yeah, I've never had this happen vs female hitboxes.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, you mean all 3 hits of the blade, not 3 hits in general, right? When I say 2 hits of the blade launching them, i'm not counting the B3.

Mileena is the main character I practice against. Through 100+ reps of the combo, I don't think I could have missed getting the 3 hit launch, every time, unless i'm doing it completely wrong.

Yeah I mean 3 hits from the blade, so 4 in total with b3. I've tested it with mileena before and it seemed to work, I'll check it again and make sure I wasn't dropping the combo between the b3 and blade call