Rate Your Character (Injustice 2 Edition)

[PLAYING TO WIN]

@General M2Dave you should put a summary of what people rated their characters at in the opening post

 

[OmGxBdON]

1. 50/50s and pressure 3/5. Although dr.fate isnt rush down heavy he still has some of the safest pressure in the game especially with only a small amount of the cast able to punish glyph reliably on block. And when he has trait out his options for pressuring the opponent become greater and safer. Plus he has a grab that combos for 40+. he probably has the shittiest grab range but atleast he has the option.

2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5/5. He has the ability to zone every character in the game except deadshot. There are characters that give him trouble in zoning like cyborg and darkseid but in the long run, there not winning a straight zoning war with fate. dont quote me on cyborg tho cuz im not completely sure : P. He has a very good meterburn roll especially because you cant see him in his dashing animation, so can be ambiguous at times.

3. neutral game and footsies 5/5. Fate has some of the best buttons in the game and so has some of the best nuetral in the game and can play footsies very well. Using d1, f2, d3, standing 1, and his other buttons make him great in nuetral and footsie game. although he doesnt have a reliable standing anti air, his jump 1 and 2 make up for that because you can use these jump ins to react to jumps. they have great range and fast start up. Plus his standing 1,3, b2 and d1 can be useful in anti airing as well.

4. defense 5/5. Because of fates wake up attack, it gives him the option to get out of situations for free because if people try to beat out your wake up, thats a free dash out of pressure or a mb b3 to counter another mb3. Also he has a decent back dash and his f3 and b3 can both be used in different situations when meter burned. He has a 6 frame poke too, it has not range but its a 6 frame poke so u cant complain. Except when u go against supirgirl.

5. damage output. 3/5 Fate has potential to do 400+ damage but u need an ankh and trait to do this. Although I dont think getting this damage is hard u still need the trait and ankh to pull it off. the better and better i get with fate the more frequently i pull off his high damage combos midscreen and in the corner however. His damage midscreen is mediocre but in the corner he does get solid 300+ damage in the corner and if u get a meterburn f3 in the corner thats close 500 damage. this is talking without trait. with trait his damage is insane especially in the corner where your getting near 500 of f2u3 and 112 hit confirms as well and throw in the corner. Im tempted to put 4/5 but i dont wanna seem like im upplaying so ill leave it at that

21/25

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

1. 50/50 mix ups and/or pressure (5/5) – this category revolves around offense. Assess the safety and the risk versus reward ratio of the character’s offensive tools.

2. Zoning and anti-zoning (5/5) – this category revolves around options outside of footsies range such as a projectile or a long-ranged physical attack. Exclude the universal meter burn forward dash and examine the character’s ability to close the gap, such as a teleport, dive, or leap.

3. Neutral game and footsies (5/5) – this category revolves around all normal attacks and special moves that control the space in your vicinity. Also consider anti-aerial attacks and their reliability.

4. Defensive options (5/5) – this category revolves around defense, particularly an effective wake up attack. Push block is to be excluded, but back dashes and meter burn b+3s and f+3s may be included. Fast pokes and low also ought to be considered.

5. Damage output (5/5) – this category revolves around the damage that a character is able to acquire from combos. Evaluate meter-less and meter-based damage output, especially combos that require one bar of meter.

Deadshot:

1) Mix 5/5*

Spoiler: Mix Ups

He has an unreactable 50/50. The low starter can be used somewhat like a rekka as you can stagger it. The 3 frame gap btw b12 will blow up poke mashing. You can back dash it but will like get hit by the ender (U3). His overhead starter is unsafe unless you use meter. He can also sneak in 21 (high, low, MB F3 for a low OH mix up in the corner, but is reactable if the 1 is blocked.

*See damage output

2) Zoning and Anti-Zoning 4/5

Spoiler: Zoning

OK, calm down. There will be pitch forks here I know. His zoning is 4/5 status. There are two major reasons I gave it 4/5. He lacks that unpredictability factor or the "Can I move right now Factor" An example of this would be Sinestro's Trait from I1 or Darkseid's Minions (will he send it or now?). The MB riffle can somewhat make up for this with its push back but is a huge risk vs characters like supergirl, BA, Cheetah, et cetera. His air control is good vs low mobility characters but poor vs characters with mobility and you have to rely on reads. Lets look at superman. If he jumps and you read he is going to air dash you can easily punish with an air shot BUT if the superman sees you are consistently reacting to this, they can simply jump to bait the air shot then trip guard you with flying superman or f2 depending on the range. At the highest level of play, his zoning will be use more for pace control, meter building and to set up his b1/f2. The best players in the community understand when its their turn to move/MB roll. Anti-Zoning comes in the from high shot. It is pretty good but not enough damage to really make people fear it. Aqua, I1 Sinestro, BA and Darkseid have a much better anti-zoning punish. There are several characters I am really struggling to zone (Cheetah, Darkseid, BA, Aqua to name a few)

This has to be said. At a casual level or a mediocre player level, his zoning will feel like its 5/5 bc they just do not understand how to navigate it. If you do nerf deadshot, say add 10 frames of recovery to high shot and added frames to other zoning tools, it WILL ONLY HURT THE TOURNAMENT LEVEL PLAYER. The casual base and mediocre base will not see a difference. This was evident with Death Stroke from I1. They added a tremendous amount of recovery for low gun shot but the casual/mediocre player base still had huge issues with the move.

3) Neutral 4/5

Spoiler: Neutral

Would be 5/5 if he had a good d2 or a way to make his pressure plus. When characters like aqua or catwoman exist, there is not way I can say his neutral matches theirs.

4) Defensive Options 3/5

Spoiler: Defense

When looking at darkseid plus two hitting wake up or aqua's trait, those are characters that could have 4 or 5/5 defense. Deadshot dashes are average. His D2 is very bad bc he stands up unlike cap cold, brainiac, catwoman, et cetera. His wake up knee is good but can be jump back punished on wakeup or stuff after the 3-5 frame (haven't figured it out yet) and requires meter to be made safe but that is pretty consistent in this game. Another aspect of defense is how well does your character get their turn back. He can't really get his turn back and keep it like aqua or catwoman pressure. Dead shots best poke is f1. You can't option select or mash it when blocking things like supergirl b1 pressure. Where as characters with 6 frames pokes (scarecrow has the best in the game at -2 with grodd close behind) or really good lateral range/fast D2's like aqua really help.

5) Damage 2/5

Spoiler: Damage

The only reason this is not 1/5 is because when he lands a hit it usually puts them back into a zoning range. Relative to the rest of the cast his mid screen damage is extremely poor. You have no way to hit confirm to a MB b3 or f3 except 21xx wall bounce or b23 MB b3 wall bounce but the string is unsafe unless you use meter on the knee. Nothing else multi-hitting can be wall bounced. B12 can't, F21 can't, 11 can't. B1 MB B3 works but it is a hail mary. You can only combo off f2 IF you land jump 2, F2, F3 Bounce Cancel. F2 F3 bounce cancel does not work. Even if you spend a bar in his BNBs off f21 and b12 you cant break 30 percent. There are characters in this game that use not bar and get >40, or a bar and get 45-50%. I can assume this is by design. Deadshots only real weakness is his AA game and mid screen damage.

Total 18-25

I personally have hit upper mid tier and probably 8-10 on the tier lists right now. Tournament results do not support a top 3 status as some claim. I like the character and he fits my style the best. ALthough if Dr. Fate had better air control he would probably have the best zoning in the game. As it stands, Darkseid is probably the best zoner/anti zoner in the game.

Sorry about grammer issues this was done with a new voice to text app I have and didn't get to proof read.

@General M2Dave


Here is a playlist of select tournament/RHS matches if anyone is interested.

 

[ABACABB]

Im not a pro tourney player but it looks like my score on first page for deadshot was good :
Deadshot :

1. 50/50 mix ups and/or pressure 4/5
2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5/5
3. Neutral game and footsies 4/5
4. Defensive options 4/5
5. Damage output 2/5

total : 19/25

 

[DubiousShenron]

1. 50/50s and pressure 3/5. Although dr.fate isnt rush down heavy he still has some of the safest pressure in the game especially with only a small amount of the cast able to punish glyph reliably on block. And when he has trait out his options for pressuring the opponent become greater and safer. Plus he has a grab that combos for 40+. he probably has the shittiest grab range but atleast he has the option.

2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5/5. He has the ability to zone every character in the game except deadshot. There are characters that give him trouble in zoning like cyborg and darkseid but in the long run, there not winning a straight zoning war with fate. dont quote me on cyborg tho cuz im not completely sure : P. He has a very good meterburn roll especially because you cant see him in his dashing animation, so can be ambiguous at times.

3. neutral game and footsies 5/5. Fate has some of the best buttons in the game and so has some of the best nuetral in the game and can play footsies very well. Using d1, f2, d3, standing 1, and his other buttons make him great in nuetral and footsie game. although he doesnt have a reliable standing anti air, his jump 1 and 2 make up for that because you can use these jump ins to react to jumps. they have great range and fast start up. Plus his standing 1,3, b2 and d1 can be useful in anti airing as well.

4. defense 5/5. Because of fates wake up attack, it gives him the option to get out of situations for free because if people try to beat out your wake up, thats a free dash out of pressure or a mb b3 to counter another mb3. Also he has a decent back dash and his f3 and b3 can both be used in different situations when meter burned. He has a 6 frame poke too, it has not range but its a 6 frame poke so u cant complain. Except when u go against supirgirl.

5. damage output. 3/5 Fate has potential to do 400+ damage but u need an ankh and trait to do this. Although I dont think getting this damage is hard u still need the trait and ankh to pull it off. the better and better i get with fate the more frequently i pull off his high damage combos midscreen and in the corner however. His damage midscreen is mediocre but in the corner he does get solid 300+ damage in the corner and if u get a meterburn f3 in the corner thats close 500 damage. this is talking without trait. with trait his damage is insane especially in the corner where your getting near 500 of f2u3 and 112 hit confirms as well and throw in the corner. Im tempted to put 4/5 but i dont wanna seem like im upplaying so ill leave it at that

21/25

1. Zoning is tough giving him 5/5 because he doesn't have counter zoning, he's also the only zoning character I've ever played that has almost no way to control the air, which is a huge part of being an effective zoner. You do have to give 5/5 though because his traited zoning is very good.

2. Next, I don't think his defensive options are perfect. For a character that was billed as a, "Defensive Powerhouse", I still find his anti airs to be ok at best, being that they all suffer from poor startup vs jumping attacks. Again I feel he suffers with his inability to reliably answer aerial approaches except with j1/j2. In a game where almost every character has an extremely good aerial special or jumpin, this sucks

3. Damage can be low at times, but high in the corner. He converts into damage off of literally everything in the corner which is good. Mb Glyph of Osiris scales really hard in trait and converts combos into 22~25%, which almost isn't worth the meter.

Fate might be the only character that doesn't fit the , "rate your own character", system. It's so hard to analyze a character so rigidly when everything he does is situational. Anyone that plays Doctor Fate would know.

I'm not going to disagree with your assessment. He's a good character but right now some of the top tier characters just matchup really well against him.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

1. 50/50s and pressure 3/5. Although dr.fate isnt rush down heavy he still has some of the safest pressure in the game especially with only a small amount of the cast able to punish glyph reliably on block. And when he has trait out his options for pressuring the opponent become greater and safer. Plus he has a grab that combos for 40+. he probably has the shittiest grab range but atleast he has the option.

2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5/5. He has the ability to zone every character in the game except deadshot. There are characters that give him trouble in zoning like cyborg and darkseid but in the long run, there not winning a straight zoning war with fate. dont quote me on cyborg tho cuz im not completely sure : P. He has a very good meterburn roll especially because you cant see him in his dashing animation, so can be ambiguous at times.

3. neutral game and footsies 5/5. Fate has some of the best buttons in the game and so has some of the best nuetral in the game and can play footsies very well. Using d1, f2, d3, standing 1, and his other buttons make him great in nuetral and footsie game. although he doesnt have a reliable standing anti air, his jump 1 and 2 make up for that because you can use these jump ins to react to jumps. they have great range and fast start up. Plus his standing 1,3, b2 and d1 can be useful in anti airing as well.

4. defense 5/5. Because of fates wake up attack, it gives him the option to get out of situations for free because if people try to beat out your wake up, thats a free dash out of pressure or a mb b3 to counter another mb3. Also he has a decent back dash and his f3 and b3 can both be used in different situations when meter burned. He has a 6 frame poke too, it has not range but its a 6 frame poke so u cant complain. Except when u go against supirgirl.

5. damage output. 3/5 Fate has potential to do 400+ damage but u need an ankh and trait to do this. Although I dont think getting this damage is hard u still need the trait and ankh to pull it off. the better and better i get with fate the more frequently i pull off his high damage combos midscreen and in the corner however. His damage midscreen is mediocre but in the corner he does get solid 300+ damage in the corner and if u get a meterburn f3 in the corner thats close 500 damage. this is talking without trait. with trait his damage is insane especially in the corner where your getting near 500 of f2u3 and 112 hit confirms as well and throw in the corner. Im tempted to put 4/5 but i dont wanna seem like im upplaying so ill leave it at that

21/25

i don't agree with mix being 3 as it is very limited... just hold back vs the character. he isn't plus on anything unless you someone got anks and are in trait. even then... hold back or push block. i would give it a 2/5 for offense.

his zoning is good but no air control is a huge issue. i would say 4. the orb is amazing in a alot of matchups.

neutral is 3/5 man. what does it lead to? superman punishes you and they get their turn back. compare his 5/5 to aqua 5/5? aqua is plus, chip, throw baits, amzing d/2. fates AA are just as bad as deadshot unless you are in a range where b2 works. if they are on top of you you have to hold all jumps. i would almost say 2/5 but f2 is pretty good vs most of the cast.

defense is bad man. 2/5 dude! where are you getting 5! single hitting wake up... if they mb b 3 and u just block... they are probably still plus. compare his wake up to darkseids where it is fast, milti hitting and plus! fates AA game is part of neutral and defense... they suck and are unreliable. Again compare his AA options vs catwoman or brainiac or aqua.

damage is also bad. dead shot status. 2/5.

I would give fate a 14/25. your post might be the up play of the year!

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Supergirl:

1. 50/50 mix ups and/or pressure 2/5
2. Zoning and anti-zoning 5/5
3. Neutral game and footsies 5/5
4. Defensive options 2/5
5. Damage output 2/5

16/25

Based on these criteria, she's only 16/25. But she's good in other areas not mentioned. Such as a great aa with her D2 and great mobility.

The reason #1 is only 2/5 is because her presssure is horrible. Her 50/50's are average, but it's mainly her pressure that suffers. Nothing truly safe, gaps everywhere, etc.

how can u give her neutral 5/5 when anytime someone blocks a b 2 they can punish u...? her zoning and anti zoning is a 3. compare her zoning to darkseid, fate or deadshot and tell me she is still a 5? and anti zoning to darkseid???

 

[Juggs]

how can u give her neutral 5/5 when anytime someone blocks a b 2 they can punish u...? her zoning and anti zoning is a 3. compare her zoning to darkseid, fate or deadshot and tell me she is still a 5? and anti zoning to darkseid???

B2 is safe, it's -3. Maybe you meant B12 or B2 1+3.

Her zoning is a 3, anti/counter zoning is about a 4, so you're right about that. I was just putting them together and didn't really think too much about it.

And her neutral is also not a 5/5, but her footsies are. Only problem is everything is unsafe and has gaps, so perhaps that drops it down some.

 

[RiBBz22]

Deadshot:

1) Mix 5/5*

Spoiler: Mix Ups

He has an unreactable 50/50. The low starter can be used somewhat like a rekka as you can stagger it. The 3 frame gap btw b12 will blow up poke mashing. You can back dash it but will like get hit by the ender (U3). His overhead starter is unsafe unless you use meter. He can also sneak in 21 (high, low, MB F3 for a low OH mix up in the corner, but is reactable if the 1 is blocked.

*See damage output

2) Zoning and Anti-Zoning 4/5

Spoiler: Zoning

OK, calm down. There will be pitch forks here I know. His zoning is 4/5 status. There are two major reasons I gave it 4/5. He lacks that unpredictability factor or the "Can I move right now Factor" An example of this would be Sinestro's Trait from I1 or Darkseid's Minions (will he send it or now?). The MB riffle can somewhat make up for this with its push back but is a huge risk vs characters like supergirl, BA, Cheetah, et cetera. His air control is good vs low mobility characters but poor vs characters with mobility and you have to rely on reads. Lets look at superman. If he jumps and you read he is going to air dash you can easily punish with an air shot BUT if the superman sees you are consistently reacting to this, they can simply jump to bait the air shot then trip guard you with flying superman or f2 depending on the range. At the highest level of play, his zoning will be use more for pace control, meter building and to set up his b1/f2. The best players in the community understand when its their turn to move/MB roll. Anti-Zoning comes in the from high shot. It is pretty good but not enough damage to really make people fear it. Aqua, I1 Sinestro, BA and Darkseid have a much better anti-zoning punish. There are several characters I am really struggling to zone (Cheetah, Darkseid, BA, Aqua to name a few)

This has to be said. At a casual level or a mediocre player level, his zoning will feel like its 5/5 bc they just do not understand how to navigate it. If you do nerf deadshot, say add 10 frames of recovery to high shot and added frames to other zoning tools, it WILL ONLY HURT THE TOURNAMENT LEVEL PLAYER. The casual base and mediocre base will not see a difference. This was evident with Death Stroke from I1. They added a tremendous amount of recovery for low gun shot but the casual/mediocre player base still had huge issues with the move.

3) Neutral 4/5

Spoiler: Neutral

Would be 5/5 if he had a good d2 or a way to make his pressure plus. When characters like aqua or catwoman exist, there is not way I can say his neutral matches theirs.

4) Defensive Options 3/5

Spoiler: Defense

When looking at darkseid plus two hitting wake up or aqua's trait, those are characters that could have 4 or 5/5 defense. Deadshot dashes are average. His D2 is very bad bc he stands up unlike cap cold, brainiac, catwoman, et cetera. His wake up knee is good but can be jump back punished on wakeup or stuff after the 3-5 frame (haven't figured it out yet) and requires meter to be made safe but that is pretty consistent in this game. Another aspect of defense is how well does your character get their turn back. He can't really get his turn back and keep it like aqua or catwoman pressure. Dead shots best poke is f1. You can't option select or mash it when blocking things like supergirl b1 pressure. Where as characters with 6 frames pokes (scarecrow has the best in the game at -2 with grodd close behind) or really good lateral range/fast D2's like aqua really help.

5) Damage 2/5

Spoiler: Damage

The only reason this is not 1/5 is because when he lands a hit it usually puts them back into a zoning range. Relative to the rest of the cast his mid screen damage is extremely poor. You have no way to hit confirm to a MB b3 or f3 except 21xx wall bounce or b23 MB b3 wall bounce but the string is unsafe unless you use meter on the knee. Nothing else multi-hitting can be wall bounced. B12 can't, F21 can't, 11 can't. B1 MB B3 works but it is a hail mary. You can only combo off f2 IF you land jump 2, F2, F3 Bounce Cancel. F2 F3 bounce cancel does not work. Even if you spend a bar in his BNBs off f21 and b12 you cant break 30 percent. There are characters in this game that use not bar and get >40, or a bar and get 45-50%. I can assume this is by design. Deadshots only real weakness is his AA game and mid screen damage.

Total 18-25

I personally have hit upper mid tier and probably 8-10 on the tier lists right now. Tournament results do not support a top 3 status as some claim. I like the character and he fits my style the best. ALthough if Dr. Fate had better air control he would probably have the best zoning in the game. As it stands, Darkseid is probably the best zoner/anti zoner in the game.

Sorry about grammer issues this was done with a new voice to text app I have and didn't get to proof read.

@General M2Dave


Here is a playlist of select tournament/RHS matches if anyone is interested.

Zoning is 5/5 dawg based on the meter gain alone. That is a nerf that has to happen to DS IMO. Other than that I have no issues with his zoning though. b12 hitting low overhead is questionable, but I wouldn't dick with it at this point. However, IMO having to deal with b1 staggers when you work hard to get in is pretty stupid and feels pretty braindead at a high level.

 

[OmGxBdON]

1. Zoning is tough giving him 5/5 because he doesn't have counter zoning, he's also the only zoning character I've ever played that has almost no way to control the air, which is a huge part of being an effective zoner. You do have to give 5/5 though because his traited zoning is very good.

2. Next, I don't think his defensive options are perfect. For a character that was billed as a, "Defensive Powerhouse", I still find his anti airs to be ok at best, being that they all suffer from poor startup vs jumping attacks. Again I feel he suffers with his inability to reliably answer aerial approaches except with j1/j2. In a game where almost every character has an extremely good aerial special or jumpin, this sucks

3. Damage can be low at times, but high in the corner. He converts into damage off of literally everything in the corner which is good. Mb Glyph of Osiris scales really hard in trait and converts combos into 22~25%, which almost isn't worth the meter.

Fate might be the only character that doesn't fit the , "rate your own character", system. It's so hard to analyze a character so rigidly when everything he does is situational. Anyone that plays Doctor Fate would know.

I'm not going to disagree with your assessment. He's a good character but right now some of the top tier characters just matchup really well against him.

the better i get with the fate the more im converting into 40% midscreen with trait on. he does crap ton of damage and the better u get with the more frequently it will come. as for doing well against top tiers i think u should flip that statement he does extremely well against top tiers minus deadshot. he can still win agains deadshot but an uphill battle for sure

 

[OmGxBdON]

i don't agree with mix being 3 as it is very limited... just hold back vs the character. he isn't plus on anything unless you someone got anks and are in trait. even then... hold back or push block. i would give it a 2/5 for offense.

his zoning is good but no air control is a huge issue. i would say 4. the orb is amazing in a alot of matchups.

neutral is 3/5 man. what does it lead to? superman punishes you and they get their turn back. compare his 5/5 to aqua 5/5? aqua is plus, chip, throw baits, amzing d/2. fates AA are just as bad as deadshot unless you are in a range where b2 works. if they are on top of you you have to hold all jumps. i would almost say 2/5 but f2 is pretty good vs most of the cast.

defense is bad man. 2/5 dude! where are you getting 5! single hitting wake up... if they mb b 3 and u just block... they are probably still plus. compare his wake up to darkseids where it is fast, milti hitting and plus! fates AA game is part of neutral and defense... they suck and are unreliable. Again compare his AA options vs catwoman or brainiac or aqua.

damage is also bad. dead shot status. 2/5.

I would give fate a 14/25. your post might be the up play of the year!

the lack of air control isnt really a problem. characters that can hurl projectiles from the air still get zoned out regardless. only exception im making for that is cyborg and blue beetle still gotta to play more of those MUs tho.
See ive been playing the nuetral game wih chracters like black adam and superman. Fate will always have the upperhand and one touch u send them full screen thats what he gets out of nuetral. i said his offense is 3/5 because of his safe pressure not cuz of his 50/50 that is lacking anyways. he has the option to put pressure on u and end it being extremely safe and if your in trait u can pretty much be nuetral or plus. Deadshot isnt as straight forward as fate. and again as people get better and better with fate he will be moving up peoples tier list. ive been doing just fine against top tier except for deadshot and frees up a bunch of other characters as well. not just me but i see pnut doing good against atro and black adam. he made rewind switch to supes. i play against aquaman and his amazing nuetral and i am definitely in full control

 

[OmGxBdON]

and also im not upplaying your just downplaying.

 

[x TeeJay o]

B2 is safe, it's -3. Maybe you meant B12 or B2 1+3.

Her zoning is a 3, anti/counter zoning is about a 4, so you're right about that. I was just putting them together and didn't really think too much about it.

And her neutral is also not a 5/5, but her footsies are. Only problem is everything is unsafe and has gaps, so perhaps that drops it down some.

I mean air dash, float crossup, lasers, ice breath, b12, f2, her j1 and it's great active frames. I'd say she most def deserves 5/5 in neutral. Only issue w it is that she doesn't gain much meter or damage from it, but that doesn't take away the fact that she controls the entire screen and can dictate the pace of any match

 

[Cashual]

I was being sarcastic to Fred Marvel saying Green Lantern's 50/50 was bad because people had options against it. lol

I was so triggered for a minute. Her mix is incredible lol.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I mean air dash, float crossup, lasers, ice breath, b12, f2, her j1 and it's great active frames. I'd say she most def deserves 5/5 in neutral. Only issue w it is that she doesn't gain much meter or damage from it, but that doesn't take away the fact that she controls the entire screen and can dictate the pace of any match

You forgot she probably has the best AA in the game as well

 

[x TeeJay o]

You forgot she probably has the best AA in the game as well

I think captain cold probably has the best, but hers is literally number 2 it's soooooooo good

 

[M2Dave]

@General M2Dave you should put a summary of what people rated their characters at in the opening post

I will, but as I have already said the question becomes, which character rating to pick aside from the obvious up and downplaying.

Also, I agree with your analysis on Deadshot, but in the context of this game the zoning and anti-zoning category has to be 5/5.

@OmGxBdON , I think Dr. Fate players are still trying to understand the character's subtleties, but 21/25 is too high of a score. I would reduce the zoning and anti-zoning score by one point. While the zoning in trait may be worthy of 5 points because of the damage, Dr. Fate has limited aerial control and the blast whiffs on some crouching characters mid range. The neutral game and footsies score is also too high. Dr. Fate's footsies are not on the same terms as Aquaman's, Black Adam's, Catwoman's, or Superman's, particularly when the non-trait push is punishable on block by a handful of characters and f+2 cannot be hit-confirmed into combos without trait and ankhs. Finally, the defense score is arguably a little high too. I am aware you can punish MB b+3s with your own, but the top tier characters have more damaging combos from their MB b+3s than you do, which makes the risk worth the reward.

 

[OmGxBdON]

I will, but as I have already said the question becomes, which character rating to pick aside from the obvious up and downplaying.

Also, I agree with your analysis on Deadshot, but in the context of this game the zoning and anti-zoning category has to be 5/5.

@OmGxBdON , I think Dr. Fate players are still trying to understand the character's subtleties, but 21/25 is too high of a score. I would reduce the zoning and anti-zoning score by one point. While the zoning in trait may be worthy of 5 points because of the damage, Dr. Fate has limited aerial control and the blast whiffs on some crouching characters mid range. The neutral game and footsies score is also too high. Dr. Fate's footsies are not on the same terms as Aquaman's, Black Adam's, Catwoman's, or Superman's, particularly when the non-trait push is punishable on block by a handful of characters and f+2 cannot be hit-confirmed into combos without trait and ankhs. Finally, the defense score is arguably a little high too. I am aware you can punish MB b+3s with your own, but the top tier characters have more damaging combos from their MB b+3s than you do, which makes the risk worth the reward.

u make some good points i agree but again as i said before fate is a new character and all the characters u just listed are legacy ofcourse theyre gonna be straight picks. Fate takes time and i do think fate's nuetral is up there, as for the defense, having his type of wake up allows him to have a mind game with his wake up which is why i think its so good. not just mb b3 but also mb roll dash forward and other options.ill concede with the 4/5 : P. fate is #10 IMO and like aftershock i think this character is very good only difference is fate is clearly good and doesnt take the execution of aftershock.
O btw the no arieal control doesnt make that much of difference, he still zones every character out in the game besides deadshot. and there are characters who do challenge him like darkseid, cyborg and BB but the rest of the cast has to go by his pace. Some more than others.

Oh and jump 1 is very good

 

[Zoidberg747]

I'll go ahead and do my pocket characters for funsies:

Cheetah

Mixups- 4/5- Her mixups are great. She has 50/50s with her command grabs and lots of tick throws. The only reason I put it at 4 instead of 5 is because the mixups are punishable if you guess right (whiff punishable that is).

Counter Zoning- 3/5- I think her counterzoning is actually pretty good. She has a really fast dash, great MB F3 (far reaching), pounce cancels and pounces, and a divekick. I wouldn't put it past 3/5 though because some zoners can shut almost all of those options down pretty quick.

Neutral- 2/5- F3 and sweep is pretty much her neutral. Other than that she has piss poor neutral. Her buttons have practically no range on them. Not much else to say, you have to be super patient and get up close to do any damage. MB F3 is good until your opponent realizes that's pretty much your only option in the neutral.

Defensive Options- 3/5- She has one of the best backdashes in the game and a great MB B3/F3. Her wakeup is unsafe but it can beat out MB B3/F3 which is a huge plus. Her AA game is fairly weak as her D2 and DP are not great. Overall I would say her defensive options are average.

Damage- 3/5- She does a lot of damage with trait or with a bar, but her meterless damage is pretty much non-existent.

Overall rating- 16/25. She's a solid mid tier that maybe could use some very slight adjustments.

Joker

Mixups- 2/5- He has very few legitimate mixups. His pressure is gimmicky but in the corner his teeth setups give him some legitimate pressure. Overall he has a lot of holes in his pressure and relies on strong reads to get anything going.

Zoning- 3/5, Gunshot and gunshot cancels give him some good counterzoning options. He obviously pales in comparison to actual zoners, but he can kinda hold his own. His dash is also pretty good especially with trait. He also has armor with MB crowbar which can get him in on some zoners.

Neutral/Footsies- 3/5- His footsies are ok. His d2 is really good and so is crowbar, but outside of that his buttons lack a lot of range. His footsies are pretty straightforward and easy to bait out. HIs walkspeed is ok. Based on how great his D2 is i'd put this at 3/5.

Defense- 2/5. He has the parry on wakeup but that's a crapshoot in a lot of cases. His backdash is mediocre and so are his MB F3/B3. HIs redeeming factor is his D2 acts as a great AA. The thing is though that once you play against him enough you begin to realize that you don't need to jump on him because of his mediocre footsies.

Damage- 3/5. The most damage he gets is off of his parry but even without that he has pretty good damage. It's getting the openings that lead to that damage that becomes a problem.

Total rating- 13/25. He's very gimmicky and needs some help.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Just a note on my ratings, I see that M2Dave has included anti-airs as part of neutral, but I've been considering them more as defensive options. My ratings reflect that, but again the overall scores don't change, just the points move from one category to another.

Black Canary:

50/50 mixups and pressure
5/5

Black canary has potentially the best mixup meta in the entire game.

Zoning and Anti-Zoning
3/5

Cartwheel is a decent approach option but can be useless in some matchups. Level 3 trait is a good counter zoning tool, but if it trades, she doesn't get a combo, has to make her way in and has to wait for it to recharge again. She's not the worst in this regard, but again, not the best.

Neutral and Footsies
3/5

Her level 3 trait allows her to dominate the neutral but it's long charge time and the fact that her other normals aren't exceptional limits her in this regard. Given it's wide variability (does she have trait or not?) I think a 3 captures the rating of her neutral well.

Defensive Options
3/5

She has a decent wakeup with cartwheel and her back dash is pretty good. Having dual parries also helps her in this regard. However, her anti-airs are weak, and she is usually has to hold jump ins into pressure unless she wants to pushblock.

Damage
5/5

Black canary has some of the best damage into resets in the game. She deserves a 5/5 in this category.

19/25

 

[RiBBz22]

I think captain cold probably has the best, but hers is literally number 2 it's soooooooo good

Aquamangggg

 

[HeroesNZ]

Okay I'll be honest you guys

Red Hood:
Mixups and Pressure - 4.5/5 - Ridiculous corner game, H2Bs everywhere, 50/50 trait with an OH option that a lot of characters can't punish, solid plus frames and very good pressure options with trait cancels and mines. Get cornered and you die.

Zoning/Anti-Zoning - 4/5 - A near fullscreen mid in MB Lunge, Air Shots and mines makes it difficult to keep this character out for a lot of the cast if he has meter. His zoning is also pretty good itself.

Neutral/Footsies - 4.5/5 - Controls the neutral well and forces movement with mines, has good range on his B2 and very good range on other strings, albeit they start with highs.

Defensive Options - 3.5/5 - Maybe people just haven't found any good anti-wakeup setups yet but generally it's hard to time a meaty to beat wakeup Lunge and stuff wakeup Backroll unless you have a ridiculous crossup like SC. In the corner though it's GGs. His AA is pretty meh too.

Damage Output - 3.5/5 - Can get pretty good damage for a lot of meter but generally his damage output isn't much higher than average when you compare it to the rest of the cast's. I'd give it a 3 but then I have to account for the ridiculous amount of chip he does.

Total - 20/25.

Call me what you want but don't call me a downplayer lul.

 

[HeroesNZ]

Superman, I'll keep this one short:

Mixups/Pressure - 4/5 - OD corner game and Breath pressure made worse by the threat of his damage if he touches you.

Zoning/Anti-Zoning - 4/5 - Can get zoned out by the dedicated zoners and is a lot more restricted without meter. Decent zoning though.

Neutral/Footsies - 4/5 - Great when he gets to play his game, harder when he can't.

Defensive Options - 4/5 - Good wakeups, good backdash, decent AA.

Damage Output - 5/5 - Needs no explanation.

Total - 21/25.

 

[Name v.5.0]

GRODD:

1. Grodd has no mixups without trait. He's incredibly unsafe on offense due to gaps in all his strings and no safe way to start a hit confirmable combo without trait on. HARD to open people up. (1/5)

2. Grodd has no zoning. His anti zoning consists of a yolo leap that's pretty punishable and an anti-projectile trait move that's insanely hard to get out and only lasts 4 seconds. (2/5)

3. His normals are pretty good with decent range and has 10 frame mid but nothing that advances forward. Has a great D2, D1, D+F+3. Neutral control is decent if he outreaches his opponent. (3/5)

4. Unsafe wake up but can be made safe with MB, also gets you out of a situation where the opponent tries to jump over you. MBB3 is great while MBF3 is the worst in the game. His ability to leap out of trouble should be considered. He can sit at the back of the screen and not get zoned if he has trait. (4/5)

5. Grodd's saving grace. His damage output is probably top 5 in the game...if you can open them up. (5/5)


TOTAL: 15/25.

 

[Juggs]

I think captain cold probably has the best, but hers is literally number 2 it's soooooooo good

Aquaman