Rate Your Character (Injustice 2 Edition)

[Tweedy]

So this thread proves GL and Scarecrow communities downplay? Lol like we didn't know that.

 

[Espio]

No big deal. I made the correction in the original post.

Spoiler: Rank List

1. Catwoman: 23.38 [23-24] (4)
2. Black Adam: 22.88 [20-25] (4)
3. Aquaman: 22.75 [22.5-23] (2)
4. Batman: 22.5 [21-23] (4)
5. Atrocitus: 22 [22] (1)
6. Superman: 21.8 [21-23] (5)
7. Wonder Woman: 20 [19-21] (2)
8. Darkseid: 19.75 [19-20.5] (2)
9. Black Canary: 19.67 [18-22] (3)
10. Harly Quinn: 19.25 [19-19.5] (2)
11. Green Arrow: 18.75 [17.5-20] (2)
12. Red Hood: 18.67 [17-20] (6)
T13. Scarecrow: 18.5 [18-19] (6)
T13. Deadshot: 18.5 [18-19] (2)
15. Bane: 18.13 [16.5-19] (4)
16. Dr. Fate: 17.75 [15-21] (4)
17. Poison Ivy: 17.63 [16.5-19] (4)
18. Blue Beetle: 17.5 [17-18] (2)
19. Green Lantern: 17.4 [17-18] (5)
20. Firestorm: 17 [17] (1)
21. The Flash: 16.88 [16-17.5] (4)
22. Supergirl: 16.33 [16-17] (3)
23. Cheetah: 16.2 [15-17] (5)
T24. Cyborg: 16 [16] (1)
T24. Robin: 16 [16] (1)
26. Gorilla Grodd: 14.75 [14.5-15] (2)
27. Captain Cold: 13.67 [12-16] (3)
28. The Joker: 12 [11-13] (2)
29. Swamp Thing: 11.5 [10-12.5] (5)
30. Brainiac: 8 [8] (1)

Most Optimistic Community - Wonder Woman
Most Pessimistic Community - Green Lantern
Most Split Community - Dr. Fate
Most Unanimous Community - Scarecrow

I have to ask, are Wonder Woman and Black Canary ranked too high and are Scarecrow and Deadshot ranked too low?

I don't think Wonder Woman is as bad as people say, but she should probably be around where Ivy and Blue Beetle are not in top ten above Deadshot,
Darkseid and Scarecrow. All that looks like is she cut in line lol.

I like this thread cause it shows most of us, whether we're optimistic, realistic or pessimistic that the general consensus seems consistent.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I have no particular opinion on how good Scarecrow is, I just think his community is in a state of flux right now after that showing proved he was viable.

You're essentially right. We have a group of players that want to push the idea that he's bad. Then you have the group being realistic saying he's good but not great. Time will tell.

 

[Bender]

Haha...

I'm largely unbiased about my character and I have no reason to blow anybody up (unless you annoy me to death). I'll direct you to my post. Click here

1) I highly recommend reading my post for this one. I'm perfectly aware of what he has. Unknown to many though, if he does the MB option off trait the last hit can be backdashed. Though to be fair, I have been contemplating making it 4.5/5 because while his pressure is decent midscreen its pretty oppressive in the corner once you know what to do. Its even harder to deal with it if you have mines out. However, at the end of the day Red Hood's pressure isn't guaranteed as even though he has options to cover his holes, he still has the holes regardless. Red Hood's pressure is less dependent on plus frames and more so his staggers. His pressure isn't foolproof or guaranteed and thats the reason why. I look at it midscreen and corner. His setplay isn't offense, its literally setup after a knockdown or any touch he has on the opponent.

2) He has more options than most but at the end of the day, he's the one that approaches them despite having capable counter-zoning. Again, read my post.

3) Red Hood has advancing normals, with only one of them being hitconfirmable. He has a good array of anti-airs and air-to-airs. See my post for more info. Though I may need to look at consider making this a 4/5 or a 4.5/5 since he cannot anti-air aquaman or anyone else with a jump in that has a disjointed hitbox consistently.

4) When I think defense, I think "Oh shit I'm about to be pressured on knockdown. What are my options?" Red Hood's wakeup is bad without meter and if its read can be punished hard and if the opponent knows the mu he can still be punished if its mb since the shots are high. He has a 6 frame d1 but it can be low profiled with low hitting d1s. The only things that save him are his great b3, good backdash and his semi-decent f3. Check my post for more reference. If either his d1 was changed or his wakeup game was better he'd get at least a 3.

5) Damage from resets/setups add up but the point is how hard does he hit both meterlessly and for one bar.

Look forward to your response

For sure - read your original post. Here are my thoughts:

1) I still think he has enough offensive options to adjust his gameplay if the opponent is exploiting one of RH's "holes". He's still plus enough to have mind games off of 321 and b13 and in the corner he gets a free d1 if he wants it. Pretty much every character has holes in their offense - do you want batman like plus frames to be guaranteed or something? I think this would be overkill, and his restand is about as guaranteed as it gets. True, his mines are primarily used on setup, but throwing an occasional mine out in-between pressure normals does give him HTB setups outside of oki. Yes, I realize the opponent can punish if they expect it, but it definitely adds to his pressure and mind games. I'll have to see what backdashing the MB hammers 332mb leads to - I could see this changing his pressure option a little, especially if mb b3 can punish the gap. I've noticed the gap, but have not labed it - nice catch!

2) True, but he can force some of the better zoners to approach him if he has meter (i.e. Aquaman), which shouldn't be overlooked and I know you mentioned it in your post. Also, his mines are pretty good at getting zoners to block or move, as he can almost always throw a mine out and still block or duck the next projectile in time. Only a couple of the BEST zoners give him trouble and even then he still has options, which is why I gave him a 4.

I can't recall where, but I thought you mentioned that he doesn't have a good zoning game himself. I'd argue he has one of the best keep away games when he faces characters like Robin, Scarecrow, WoWo or has a significant health lead.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LUMINARY BENDER/video/33373187


3) Yep, we agree here. His MB b3 is one of his only options against AM's jump in, but it works fairly well. I'd settle on a 4 or 4.5 as he does't have the range and hitbox that the characters I would give a 5 to have. But it's pretty close!

4) I guess I was thinking in comparison to a lot of the cast who doesn't have a wakeup at all, RH at least gets an okay one. His backdash and walk back speed are really good as is his b3. I think we are basically saying the same thing, but are just putting a different emphasis on how important a safe wakeup option is, which I don't think defines this category as a whole. He still has a 6f d1 - even if it can be low profiled I wouldn't complain about it too much. And he has two parry options, which aren't amazing, but are an additional bonus against MB b and f 3. Finally, if the opponent ever tries to jump or cross over, he can usually lunge forward or backwards to safety. When looking at the majority of the cast, he has decent options.

5) Looking at damage a second time, and I'll agree it's not the best. Even in the corner, it's more about getting in 2 - 3 combos in than hitting really hard. I think RH has more opportunities to open up the opponent than most, but in terms of raw damage, yeah I could see this even being a 2,

 

[Bender]

I made a list based on the average rating of each character so far and put it in order. The format is this:

Rank. Character: Average Rating [Range] (Number of ratings)

I excluded anything that I felt was an outlier (such as a certain GL rating) and although I didn't really agree with the Brainiac rating it was the only one there.

Spoiler: Rank List

1. Catwoman: 23.38 [23-24] (4)
2. Black Adam: 22.88 [20-25] (4)
3. Aquaman: 22.75 [22.5-23] (2)
4. Batman: 22.5 [21-23] (4)
5. Atrocitus: 22 [22] (1)
6. Superman: 21.8 [21-23] (5)
7. Wonder Woman: 20 [19-21] (2)
8. Darkseid: 19.75 [19-20.5] (2)
9. Black Canary: 19.67 [18-22] (3)
10. Harley Quinn: 19.25 [19-19.5] (2)
11. Green Arrow: 18.75 [17.5-20] (2)
12. Red Hood: 18.67 [17-20] (6)
T13. Scarecrow: 18.5 [18-19] (6)
T13. Deadshot: 18.5 [18-19] (2)
15. Bane: 18.13 [16.5-19] (4)
16. Dr. Fate: 17.75 [15-21] (4)
17. Poison Ivy: 17.63 [16.5-19] (4)
18. Blue Beetle: 17.5 [17-18] (2)
19. Green Lantern: 17.4 [17-18] (5)
20. Firestorm: 17 [17] (1)
21. The Flash: 16.88 [16-17.5] (4)
22. Supergirl: 16.33 [16-17] (3)
23. Cheetah: 16.2 [15-17] (5)
T24. Cyborg: 16 [16] (1)
T24. Robin: 16 [16] (1)
26. Gorilla Grodd: 14.75 [14.5-15] (2)
27. Captain Cold: 13.67 [12-16] (3)
28. The Joker: 12 [11-13] (2)
29. Swamp Thing: 11.5 [10-12.5] (5)
30. Brainiac: 8 [8] (1)

Most Optimistic Community - Wonder Woman
Most Pessimistic Community - Green Lantern
Most Split Community - Dr. Fate
Most Unanimous Community - Scarecrow

I think the most telling thing about this is the spread from #1 to #6 is marginal with only 1.5 points difference from #1 to #6. Once we get to #7, the spread drops quite a bit, but there is once again a small spread of 1.5 points from #7 - #14.

I'd put 1-6 in top tier and 7-14 in high mid tier. Most characters in these groups seem tournament viable, which is pretty good from a balance perspective.

 

[Crusty]

For sure - read your original post. Here are my thoughts:

1) I still think he has enough offensive options to adjust his gameplay if the opponent is exploiting one of RH's "holes". He's still plus enough to have mind games off of 321 and b13 and in the corner he gets a free d1 if he wants it. Pretty much every character has holes in their offense - do you want batman like plus frames to be guaranteed or something? I think this would be overkill, and his restand is about as guaranteed as it gets. True, his mines are primarily used on setup, but throwing an occasional mine out in-between pressure normals does give him HTB setups outside of oki. Yes, I realize the opponent can punish if they expect it, but it definitely adds to his pressure and mind games. I'll have to see what backdashing the MB hammers 332mb leads to - I could see this changing his pressure option a little, especially if mb b3 can punish the gap. I've noticed the gap, but have not labed it - nice catch!

2) True, but he can force some of the better zoners to approach him if he has meter (i.e. Aquaman), which shouldn't be overlooked and I know you mentioned it in your post. Also, his mines are pretty good at getting zoners to block or move, as he can almost always throw a mine out and still block or duck the next projectile in time. Only a couple of the BEST zoners give him trouble and even then he still has options, which is why I gave him a 4.

I can't recall where, but I thought you mentioned that he doesn't have a good zoning game himself. I'd argue he has one of the best keep away games when he faces characters like Robin, Scarecrow, WoWo or has a significant health lead.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/LUMINARY BENDER/video/33373187


3) Yep, we agree here. His MB b3 is one of his only options against AM's jump in, but it works fairly well. I'd settle on a 4 or 4.5 as he does't have the range and hitbox that the characters I would give a 5 to have. But it's pretty close!

4) I guess I was thinking in comparison to a lot of the cast who doesn't have a wakeup at all, RH at least gets an okay one. His backdash and walk back speed are really good as is his b3. I think we are basically saying the same thing, but are just putting a different emphasis on how important a safe wakeup option is, which I don't think defines this category as a whole. He still has a 6f d1 - even if it can be low profiled I wouldn't complain about it too much. And he has two parry options, which aren't amazing, but are an additional bonus against MB b and f 3. Finally, if the opponent ever tries to jump or cross over, he can usually lunge forward or backwards to safety. When looking at the majority of the cast, he has decent options.

5) Looking at damage a second time, and I'll agree it's not the best. Even in the corner, it's more about getting in 2 - 3 combos in than hitting really hard. I think RH has more opportunities to open up the opponent than most, but in terms of raw damage, yeah I could see this even being a 2,

1) Red Hood may have alot of wholes but his general gameplan revolves around blowing up who exploit them. I'd say its more accurate to say every non-legacy character has holes in their offense for the most part. If we look at the legacy characters, they have means of keeping themselves plus if not safe meterlessly without gaps or otherwise. His restand isn't offense, it is something that is set up after a lucky touch on the opponent. His trait mixups are decent once you really understand them. I'm aware of his mines adding an extra level to his yomi but the fact remains is that after anything blocked from him, its always the opponents turn and while b13 and 323 are okay for plus frames (they are more meant for stagger), his pressure is more built around conditioning and mindgames rather than true plus frames. It's not to say Red Hood's pressure is bad but when you look at the best characters in the game who can always play their game and has lesser holes than the non-legacy characters, you'll come to notice his offense, while good, falls just a little behind. The only reason its even in the 4s is because he's harder to deal with in the corner but he can still be escaped compared to the likes of the best characters in the game. Though this is partially attributed to the legacy characters carrying the IGAU meta with them while the newer characters are designed around the i2 meta.

2) You have to take into consideration that Aquaman's zoning is toned down from the first game. His tools are meant for interrupting the opponents zoning patterns and force them to play on his terms. A bunch of characters zoning give him problems: Deadshot, Superman, Green Arrow and (probably, not sure) Supergirl.

He has a good zoning game against characters, I admit that. I might bump this up to 4 but this requires some thorough testing..

3) Okay, glad thats resolved.

4) Hmmm, I think I get what you're saying. His fatal drop still has laughable recovery. You could make a case that even then he can't get punished too hardly. I don't want to take anti-jumping options in defense here so.

5) KK