Rate Your Character (Injustice 2 Edition)

[Espio]

Can the downplayers get over themselves and just give a realistic, honest look at characters for this thread? When you have to end your "analysis" by saying you're not downplaying that just shows the lack of credibility you already have and don't want to ever have any either lol.

Like Green Lantern 12/25 like Swamp Thing and no mix ups.....cool lol.

 

[tafka Djinn]

Green Lantern time boiz!

Mixups/Pressure 3/5
f3 cross-up, f2 staggered with b1 or finishing with the d1 both convert into full combo. f2 and b23 are +3 on block. I would rate higher but b1 is gapped, and while people aren't punishing it now string into TraitxxMB Wall is gapped as well.

Zoning/Anti-zoning 3/5
It's not horrible, it's not great. MUs where you get to Cookie Toss feel rough for the opponent, but MUs you have to take it to the zoner feel pretty bad too as you have to rely on MB Battery Blast with Overcharged Lantern on a read.

Neutral/Footsies 5/5
b1 is your own personal savior, f2 is a plus on block forward advancing high that leads into a mix. And his walkspeed is beautiful.

Defensive Options 4/5
Between Wall, poke (once they respect wall), and delay wakeup, I feel this is a point that is frequently underplayed.

Damage 3/5
b23, b13, and f2d1 all lead to respectable damage for a bar or trait when optimized. Nothing to write home about, but nothing to scoff when you consider that you're getting oki off any touch.

Overall 18/2-I MEAN 1/25 PLSBUFF.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

It is a relief to play two characters everyone agrees are 'good but not great' bc these threads become low-stress pure entertainment.

 

[Espio]

It is a relief to play two characters everyone agrees are 'good but not great' bc these threads become low-stress pure entertainment.

I like that my numbers are within one or on the mark with the Cheetah and Blue Beetle players that have posted cause it reaffirms that there's a mutual understanding of their options and comparison to the rest of the cast.

This is a really fun thread and I'm glad Dave does them for every game. I'm also excited to see who changes as the meta evolves and over the course of patches.

 

[Awkward Sloth]

Can the downplayers get over themselves and just give a realistic, honest look at characters for this thread? When you have to end your "analysis" by saying you're not downplaying that just shows the lack of credibility you already have and don't want to ever have any either lol.

Like Green Lantern 12/25 like Swamp Thing and no mix ups.....cool lol.

Be right back going back to my Harley write up to take away 10 points. I'm not downplaying it's just how the character is honest and for realsies. Pls buff make dogs plus 50 and 20 frames of start up.

 

[xKhaoTik]

I like that my numbers are within one or on the mark with the Cheetah and Blue Beetle players that have posted cause it reaffirms that there's a mutual understanding of their options and comparison to the rest of the cast.

This is a really fun thread and I'm glad Dave does them for every game. I'm also excited to see who changes as the meta evolves and over the course of patches.

Did he do it for MKX? I remember the first 2 games but I don't remember MKX being done.

 

[Espio]

Did he do it for MKX? I remember the first 2 games but I don't remember MKX being done.

It might not of been, I didn't really engage as much in MKX as I did in the other two games so maybe not?

 

[RiBBz22]

RiBBz22 is a God and is correct again

Fully agreed

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Harley Quinn:

50/50 mix-ups and or pressure: 3.5/5

She has some overhead and lows, however all of them are reactable so her mix-up game is whatever BUT she has some nice pressure with F2, F23, B2 and 12 jailing into gunshot on block, leaving her plus enough for a D1 check, once people respect that she can go for more pressure, a grab and all that and she has some good trait set-ups.

Zoning and anti-zoning: 4/5

She is a great zoner in the match-ups where she can zone, her anti zoning is good as well but she can't counterzone some characters,she gets zoned out pretty bad in a few match-ups.

Neutral game and footsies: 4/5

She is amazing at whiff punishing and has a good AA with D2. However, she lacks a good ranged mid and it's a hell to whiff punish floating characters with B2.

Defensive options: 3/5

Her wake-ups are pretty below average since non of them are fully invincible and can be stuffed/dodged easily, her armor is meh, her D1 is 7 frames, but her backdash is very good

Damage output: 5/5

Her meterless damage is amazing! that's one of her biggest strenghts, she can make it a bit higher with a bar but she must sacrifice set-ups. She has great damage in general.


Score: 19.5/25

She is in a great place right now, she is very balanced since she is a jack of all trades kinda character which is master of none but she is very good at pretty much everything, her only downside is her defense but that's very understandable, otherwise she would be crazy.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Catwoman:

50/50 mix-ups and or pressure: 4.5/5

Good plus frames, good staggers, safe meterless launchers and she can hit confirm into big damage off all of that, she has some nasty 50/50 set-ups in the corner with cross up or non-cross up F3.

Zoning and anti-zoning: 4/5

She has no zoning obviously but she is probably the best anti-zoner in the game since J2, B3, MB catdash and evade are all amazing tools to get around zoners and she has some of the best (if not the best) walkspeed and a great dash.

Neutral game and footsies: 5/5

She has great, long ranged, safe, hit-confirmable avadcing mids, she has great whiff punishers, she has B3, J2, a good anti air and low whip and all that together makes her one of the best mid-range characters in the game.

Defensive options: 5/5

She has great armor, low-profiling, the best wake-up in the game with trait and a pretty meh but still fully invincible wake-up with rising claws, 6 frame D1 and probably the best backdash in the game (don't @ me)

Damage output: 5-5

She is one of the very few characters with meterless launchers that lead into huge damage, or she can spend a bar and get even more, with trait she is taking almost half your lifebar and in the corner she has amazing damage.

Score: 23.5/25

She is extremely good and she doesn't even have any big flaw honestly.

 

[sars]

Mr. Freeze

50/50 - Pressure: 4/5

Though his only decent string is F223, it is a very good forward advancing tool and can punish some things, as well as anti-air. Side note: his d2 is orgasmic. His corner pressure is fantastic as well.

Zoning/Anti-Zoning: 2/5

His zoning is decent, but just about anyone else with a projectile can make it not worthwhile to even trade. It however works great against rushdown characters.

Neutral/Footsies: 3/5

Again, his F2 is great in the neutral, and his df2/db2 is good in controlling the neutral. He suffers with footsies because his options really are limited to F22, or properly spacing 12, as the 2 advances as an OH.

Defense: 5/5

I'd say he has some of the strongest defensive tools in the game. Mb db3 being two hits, as a trap on the ground breaks armored b3/f3's, and is a good space controller. Db2 is a decent wakeup, considering it can often times anti-air as well. And it's ability to absorb projectiles gives him an 'in' on some zoners. His bf1 and df2 also assist his defense at keeping the opponent pre-occupied.

Damage: 2/5

I think his max combo potential for one bar is around 350, but it's almost always better to end with F22 into icicle setup for around 310. It's decent, but in comparison to a lot of the cast, sort of miniscule.

16/25

^That's about right.

Can't believe you have him a 4/5 for pressure and 2/5 for zoning. I thinks it's the other way around. I mean once you get his trait up he can zone with the best of them. He doesn't even have a F22 string. And most people end there combos in B232 so they can charge there trait

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Wonder Woman:

50/50's and pressure: 3/5

She doesn't really have any legit 50/50's and her pressure is ok, the only reason she has 3 is 223 being a good pressure tool and MB shield bash is good but it's nothing to get crazy about.

Zoning and anti-zoning: 3/5

Her zoning is whatever outside of a few MUs. When it comes to anti-zoning she has a good parry, good walkspeed, decent dashes, shield bash and a great J3 + she can check some characters with her own projectiles but they are so unsafe.

Neutral game and footsies: 4/5

Her biggest strenght for sure, she has amazing whiff punishers, a great J3, Shield bash (one of her good whiff punishers also), a decent D2. However, she lacks an advancing mid but she doesn't really need that, she didn't get 5/5 because even tho her D2 is good, it's not amazing either against some characters.

Defensive options: 5/5

She has a 6F D1 which can lead into a full-combo off D12, a fully invincible wake-up with a great hitbox, good armor and good reversals.

Damage output: 4/5

She gets great damage off anything but she has to spend a bar for her good damage combos and she has to sacrifice set-ups to get her biggest damage.

Score: 19/25

 

[Baconlord]

Ivy
Mix and pressure 3.5: personally I think her up close game is underrated. She's got decent staggers and a half screen f3 that gets her easy plus frames and she can setup hard to blockables with trait. Plus I think dautra cancels are super underrated as a pressure tool and I can see a lot of potential in her oki game with f3 cross up set ups

Zoning 4: I want to bump it to a 5 but there's a couple matchups where she has no full screen presence at all. If you're a character with poor air control and you have to get in then you're in for a rough time. The drill mb drill guessing game is great and if she catches you shared to move or you don't have a way to check her she can just set up trait and build a ton of meter and chip

Neutral 4: b2 is a great button and mb f3 can blow up any thing thrown out near mid screen plus she's got a great walk speed. The only thing stopping her from getting a 5 is lack of anti air but she's got a decent air to ait with jump 1

Defensive 1: she doesn't get much of her d1 and it's hard for her to deal with jump ins. Her wakeup is pretty shit. She gets good damage off it and it has invincibility but it gets low profiled, can't hit airborne opponents, and it gets blown you by moves that are throw immune.

Damage 4: her damage is super solid. Only reason it's not a 5 is because I think Adam is the only character who deserves a 5 in this category.

16.5/25

 

[xKhaoTik]

Ivy
Mix and pressure 3.5: personally I think her up close game is underrated. She's got decent staggers and a half screen f3 that gets her easy plus frames and she can setup hard to blockables with trait. Plus I think dautra cancels are super underrated as a pressure tool and I can see a lot of potential in her oki game with f3 cross up set ups

Zoning 4: I want to bump it to a 5 but there's a couple matchups where she has no full screen presence at all. If you're a character with poor air control and you have to get in then you're in for a rough time. The drill mb drill guessing game is great and if she catches you shared to move or you don't have a way to check her she can just set up trait and build a ton of meter and chip

Neutral 4: b2 is a great button and mb f3 can blow up any thing thrown out near mid screen plus she's got a great walk speed. The only thing stopping her from getting a 5 is lack of anti air but she's got a decent air to ait with jump 1

Defensive 1: she doesn't get much of her d1 and it's hard for her to deal with jump ins. Her wakeup is pretty shit. She gets good damage off it and it has invincibility but it gets low profiled, can't hit airborne opponents, and it gets blown you by moves that are throw immune.

Damage 4: her damage is super solid. Only reason it's not a 5 is because I think Adam is the only character who deserves a 5 in this category.

16.5/25

Aww come on her defense isn't THAT bad lol


Even tho she doesn't get shit from d1 meterlessly, it's still a good poke. 7f, good range, and +13 on hit which guarantees pressure. Even tho she has to spend a bar to get a combo from it, it's still something and it leads into a restand or HKD. J1/2 are good air to airs to deal with airborne opponents or jump ins and the priority on them are really good. Beaten out a lot of jumps, including j2 from bats. Barkskin can make some matches literal hell for characters who rely on big damage or chip. MB B3 is always a good option against jumps or people trying to dash in (really good against jumps like catwomans j2, ww j3, etc).

You giving her a 1 makes it seem like she's totally defenseless and although her defense isn't the greatest, it isn't non existent either lol

 

[Baconlord]

Aww come on her defense isn't THAT bad lol


Even tho she doesn't get shit from d1 meterlessly, it's still a good poke. 7f, good range, and +13 on hit which guarantees pressure. Even tho she has to spend a bar to get a combo from it, it's still something and it leads into a restand or HKD. J1/2 are good air to airs to deal with airborne opponents or jump ins and the priority on them are really good. Beaten out a lot of jumps, including j2 from bats. Barkskin can make some matches literal hell for characters who rely on big damage or chip. MB B3 is always a good option against jumps or people trying to dash in (really good against jumps like catwomans j2, ww j3, etc).

You giving her a 1 makes it seem like she's totally defenseless and although her defense isn't the greatest, it isn't non existent either lol

Fair point. I might have over exaggerated the rating and she's by no means helpless but I think relative to the rest of the cast she's definitely in the bottom of that category. Also don't mistake this as downplaying. I think she's super good. It's just that the number doesn't tell the whole story with her

 

[LEGI0N47]

Wonder Woman

• 50/50 mix ups and/or pressure: (4/5)

Spoiler

B2 is a 21f, hitconfirmable, -3 on block overhead that leads into low damage midscreen but low 300 to mid 300 points of damage in the corner based on the current trait buff she has (Athena [Shield] or Hestia [Lasso]) or based on what character shes fighting. From range it being -3 you essentially can still press buttons and catch ppl trying to move forward or press their own buttons.

Her F2 is a 22f low that also lead into her F23 string and launch's for a combo. Netting solid meterless damage. Though it is unsafe, you can Option Select this normal into Mb Bash for plus frames. Or you can bounce cancel it into f3 for a mixup or more plus frames. On hit she gets good damage for 2 bars. The normal by itself is also safe on block being at -6 and on hit she is +16.

Her sweep is also a good mixup option. Though it lacks range. It is safe at -4. On hit it's a hkd and is +29. It starts up at 15f.

For pressure. She has her 223 string that hits mid throughout and is +12 on block and her d12, 22 and b11 all jail if this string is blocked and those starters are hitconfirmable as well. Rightfully so this string does have a gap after 22 that you can backbash, super or simply poke out of. Though WW does have good options to cover this gap with Shield Bash or parry.

Her Shield Bash is listed at being -16 on block. But from range it can either be + or safe. Frame trapping ppl or creating mind games with parry. Using a bar on Shield Bash puts at +2. She isn't guareented anything after it's blocked. But she does put herself in her optimal range and possibly forcing her opponent to do something hasty.

• Zoning and anti-zoning: (3/5)

Spoiler

This is more match up based. She can effectively zone out characters with her Shield Toss, Air Shield Toss, Diagonal Air Shield Toss, Lasso of Truth or even Bash. These characters are Grodd, Cheetah, Canary, Bane, Brainiac, Scarecrow, Robin, Swamp Thing and Flash. Obviously she can't just throw this stuff out all willy nilly. A jump in and a dream can net these characters a solid punish on Diana but if these characters are jumping, she can then d2 or air 2 air them and punish their attempt at beating out her ranged options. Some of these characters can also punish her regular Shield Toss on block since it's -33. But she can either stay safe against most by spending a bar or simply not do anything and just turtle. Especially if she has a life lead.

As for anti zoning. Her Air Shield Tosses are great at checking, punishing fireball happy characters or baiting a punish.
She can use her Shield Toss moves as checks on defensive/zoning characters who can't punish it on block. Characters like Batman, Harley, Beetle, Cold, Cyborg or Arrow. With a life lead she can turtle with parry against a character like Beetle.

• Neutral game and footsies: (4/5)

Spoiler

Kind of already went through this above. But her neutral consists of using most if not all of her moves. She doesnt have one option that does everything. Her j3, d2, b2, d12, b11, Bash, Shield Toss, Air Shield Toss and Lasso of Truth are all good at controling space or whiff punishing. Her Bash as said before can either be + or safe depending on the distance.

• Defensive options: (5/5)

Spoiler

Her d12 is a great poke. At 6f it is awesome at punishing and poking out of gaps. Her parry is a great option at exploiting gaps, whiff punishing and as a wakeup. It's also great at countering b3's and f3's. Cheetahs f3 is the only one she cannot parry since it hits twice.

Her d2 is a great anti air against most jump ins and is a good footsie tool. Harley, Joker, Batman, Catwoman (You can aa her if your underneath her j2.) and Green Lantern are pretty hard to aa with d2. But WW's j2 is one of the best air 2 airs in the game and can stuff these character air normals easily.

She has probably the best if not one of the best wakeups in the game with Up Bash. Hit's ppl trying to neutral jump. Fully invincible. Can spend a bar to stay neutral on block and on hit does great unclashable damage at 200 points give or take. It can be baited and whiff punished but that's honestly not that big of a deal since your opponent has to give up pressure to do this. It can be blown up with mbf3/b3's, but then you can counter with wakeup parry or wakeup Mb Shield Bash.

• Damage output: (5/5)

Spoiler

Her meterless midscreen damage is subpar. Except off of her f23 string she gets good damage most characters can't get. In the corner is where she gets good meterless. A well space b2 hitconfirmed can net WW 310 damage or more pending on the character, as well as buffs from parry or Athena/Hestia buffs.

1 bar she gets high 300 to low 400. Again that will also vary on what damage buffs she has.

Overall rating: 21/25

Good write up. However I'd like to add a few points as well as dispute some of your numbers.

For mix ups and pressure I can agree with the 4, but barely. What makes it hard for me is frames, range, and speed on F2. As well as the resources needed for the F3 cancel.
But perhaps I'm looking at it more from an open up perspective. She is low on the open ups, but high on pressure. Still not sure the pressure is so good to keep it 4.

I can't in good conscience give her a 5 in damage. Her meterless is not so good and F23 raw is hard to pull and very unsafe. Nearly every character has good corner damage without meter so I rule that out. Her 1 and 2 bar damage is above average but not as high as others. You did mention trait damage. However since you often have limited opportunities to set it up and can't control it I can't rule it as a factor. Despite the fact you get insane damage from Artemis buff+parry. I give her a 4.

I wasn't sure on defense being a 5, but can't find a way to refute it. She can definitely turtle like a boss.

 

[Tweedy]

Superman

50/50s and pressure: 3/5
Zoning: 4/5
Neutral: 4/5
Defensive: 4/5
Damage: 5/5

20/25

I think Superman's neutral is 5/5 in a lot of match ups and 3/5 in others, so I put it at 4/5. His zoning is some of the most underrated in the game but not good enough to warrant a 5 imo. His pressure is extremely overrated because people will always contest after trait, if you just play off of breath it's not as omg crazy as people say. He has nice mix in the corner tho. Could be a 4 because of that.

I didn't know where to put defense. His wake ups can be kinda suspect but he has a 6 frame d1 to back them up, and an amazing backdash. Not a 5 but probably a 4. His damage needs no explanation.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Can the downplayers get over themselves and just give a realistic, honest look at characters for this thread? When you have to end your "analysis" by saying you're not downplaying that just shows the lack of credibility you already have and don't want to ever have any either lol.

Like Green Lantern 12/25 like Swamp Thing and no mix ups.....cool lol.

Cheetah needs 1/5 in the mix-up department because people can just nj and avoid both of her command grabs. Please buff that gimmicky mix-up

 

[Dankster Morgan]

Superman

50/50s and pressure: 3/5
Zoning: 4/5
Neutral: 4/5
Defensive: 4/5
Damage: 5/5

20/25

I think Superman's neutral is 5/5 in a lot of match ups and 3/5 in others, so I put it at 4/5. His zoning is some of the most underrated in the game but not good enough to warrant a 5 imo. His pressure is extremely overrated because people will always contest after trait, if you just play off of breath it's not as omg crazy as people say. He has nice mix in the corner tho. Could be a 4 because of that.

I didn't know where to put defense. His wake ups can be kinda suspect but he has a 6 frame d1 to back them up, and an amazing backdash. Not a 5 but probably a 4. His damage needs no explanation.

Whys neutral 5 in some 3 in others? No h8 just wondering

 

[Tweedy]

Whys neutral 5 in some 3 in others? No h8 just wondering

3 vs characters who he can't walk back and be lame against with even life. F23 is a lot more dangerous when characters are coming after Superman, than if he's coming after them.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

3 vs characters who he can't walk back and be lame against with even life. F23 is a lot more dangerous when characters are coming after Superman, than if he's coming after them.

Ok thanks for explaining it

 

[Dankster Morgan]

@General M2Dave what was P2W's rating system for MKX? I don't think it was great for that game, but I feel like it would fit INJ 2.

 

[Espio]

Cheetah needs 1/5 in the mix-up department because people can just nj and avoid both of her command grabs. Please buff that gimmicky mix-up

Well, the only tick throw I use is off of back 1 because Back 1,1 is gapless so if they let go of block, I can either finish the string and get a knock down or I can cancel into pounce, air command grab etc.

If you're not using that as your primary set up for tick throws then you done goofed. Cheetah players not doing high command grab off of 1,2 are in the same boat too. Condition with 1,1,2 then sneak that in and actually get a combo instead of the low damage corner carry throw that people use. If you're gonna take the risk, go for the gold.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

Well, the only tick throw I use is off of back 1 because Back 1,1 is gapless so if they let go of block, I can either finish the string and get a knock down or I can cancel into pounce, air command grab etc.

If you're not using that as your primary set up for tick throws then you done goofed. Cheetah players not doing high command grab off of 1,2 are in the same boat too. Condition with 1,1,2 then sneak that in and actually get a combo instead of the low damage corner carry throw that people use. If you're gonna take the risk, go for the gold.

I was being sarcastic to Fred Marvel saying Green Lantern's 50/50 was bad because people had options against it. lol

 

[Espio]

I was being sarcastic to Fred Marvel saying Green Lantern's 50/50 was bad because people had options against it. lol

Oh...lmfao. There's so much needless downplay of everything that everyone is suspect to me right now XD.