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Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
ExpectFlames said:
Where do you think raidens place would be whale?
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tl;dr - I think Raijin floats between mid-high depending on matchup and jank. Thunder Wave is perhaps solid mid, maybe a bit less depending on matchup.
Truth & Light doesn't exist.

It's tough for me to estimate, but I think it's really going to depend on matchup. I never agreed with him being the worst, and he does have solid tools at his disposal. Some matchups I haven't quite figured out yet still and I'm no top player either. I can get to Demi God if I want to but always stop once I do.

I don't like to play to authority but I agree with a lot of what SonicFox has said about Raiden and I have been thinking the same things about his corner game for a long time. Both variations have their merits but I believe Raijin is the better choice most of the time depending on how well you deal with walking your way in against keep away and your knowledge of their strings.

Discharge, as has been talked about at length now, has always been the core tool of Raijin since the start. I think it's the reason they originally took away db4's ability to launch mid screen and I don't think they knew about linking Discharge in the corner off said move until the internet found it, and at 4 frames it honestly really was an insane move to have. @kabelfritz a while back even said he could see Raijin becoming top with a good launcher (albeit a 4 frame move was in mind), and now here we have it and the top player is telling us he's S tier.
For top players who are good at seeing and executing the correct moments to use Discharge, this honestly makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what we've always known about the move.​

Honestly, it's mostly the jank shit like the goofy hitbox issues on several moves that make this character frustrating, and a few string enders that make no sense at all and are useless (321, f112, b14).
Also, one thing that's always bugged me is b2's reach. The mixup we get for setting up the KB would be far more potent if it had a reach more comparable to his b3 so he could apply it at a range Raiden is built for anyway.
 
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ExpectFlames

ExpectFlames

Lord of embers
Trustful_Whale said:
tl;dr - I think Raijin floats between mid-high depending on matchup and jank. Thunder Wave is perhaps solid mid, maybe a bit less depending on matchup.
Truth & Light doesn't exist.

It's tough for me to estimate, but I think it's really going to depend on matchup. I never agreed with him being the worst, and he does have solid tools at his disposal. Some matchups I haven't quite figured out yet still and I'm no top player either. I can get to Demi God if I want to but always stop once I do.

I don't like to play to authority but I agree with a lot of what SonicFox has said about Raiden and I have been thinking the same things about his corner game for a long time. Both variations have their merits but I believe Raijin is the better choice most of the time depending on how well you deal with walking your way in against keep away and your knowledge of their strings.

Discharge, as has been talked about at length now, has always been the core tool of Raijin since the start. I think it's the reason they originally took away db4's ability to launch mid screen and I don't think they knew about linking Discharge in the corner off said move until the internet found it, and at 4 frames it honestly really was an insane move to have. @kabelfritz a while back even said he could see Raijin becoming top with a good launcher (albeit a 4 frame move was in mind), and now here we have it and the top player is telling us he's S tier.
For top players who are good at seeing and executing the correct moments to use Discharge, this honestly makes a lot of sense and is consistent with what we've always known about the move.​

Honestly, it's mostly the jank shit like the goofy hitbox issues on several moves that make this character frustrating, and a few string enders that make no sense at all and are useless (321, f112, b14).
Also, one thing that's always bugged me is b2's reach. The mixup we get for setting up the KB would be far more potent if it had a reach more comparable to his b3 so he could apply it at a range Raiden is built for anyway.
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I would be interested in what character variations you would put beneath raiijin.
I really don't disagree with you on the important things. Raiijin is a strong variation with powerful tools even with those tools raiijin agaisnt other characters best variations its hard for me to see him doing better than even. I dont want to sound like a down player or a broken record.
 
UnshavenRaven

UnshavenRaven

Noob
Lol TrustfulWhale: "Truth and Light doesn't exist." Well, well, challenge accepted! Lol, all joking aside, I took a little break from Raijin and started sharpening my skills with Truth & Light earlier today and jumped on Ranked. I actually did pretty well lol. Won a solid amount of matches once I got into the groove of staff pressure.

One of the cool things on Truth and Light is how you can basically turn amped lightning bolts into "Triple Bolts", by holding the button down and linking to the planted staff. Does nice damage boost, and chip pressure. The ability to choose what distance the staff gets planted is a cool feature as well. I might upload some of these matches one of these days.
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
UnshavenRaven said:
Lol TrustfulWhale: "Truth and Light doesn't exist." Well, well, challenge accepted! Lol, all joking aside, I took a little break from Raijin and started sharpening my skills with Truth & Light earlier today and jumped on Ranked. I actually did pretty well lol. Won a solid amount of matches once I got into the groove of staff pressure.

One of the cool things on Truth and Light is how you can basically turn amped lightning bolts into "Triple Bolts", by holding the button down and linking to the planted staff. Does nice damage boost, and chip pressure. The ability to choose what distance the staff gets planted is a cool feature as well. I might upload some of these matches one of these days.
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The variation is at odds with itself by its very design and I think it failed at the drawing board. I say this with no shade towards any combat designers who may see this, but there's no sensible reason for pairing special moves that directly conflict with each other while also removing his most important special just to force us into some weird keep away/setup variation that doesn't even do what it should.
If you want me to go into detail I can, but for now that's all I'll say about it.

But since we're stuck with it hopefully they can make further adjustments to unfuck this train wreck of a variation some day.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Yeah good luck getting two JK's online lol. Never seen any Raiden doing that. Offline may be possible though.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Trustful_Whale said:
Yes, this one.

You mentioned landing two jks, I don't see anything else here using two jks. Which combo are you talking about?
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The one with kbb2, 32 d1234 jk jk etc the one you posted on the last page above the one that says easy since that was the harder one, or is this strictly a corner combo?
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
MKF30 said:
The one with kbb2, 32 d1234 jk jk etc the one you posted on the last page above the one that says easy since that was the harder one, or is this strictly a corner combo?
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32, D1, 243 will be your best damage (530 TW, 466 RJ), but you have to be perfect or db2 will whiff. I think F3, D1, 243 is more consistent, but harder to finish with SCamp, j3~fly.
For easy mode just do 32~SCamp, j3, j3~fly for 508.
Read it here
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Mandolore1123 said:
32, D1, 243 will be your best damage (530 TW, 466 RJ), but you have to be perfect or db2 will whiff. I think F3, D1, 243 is more consistent, but harder to finish with SCamp, j3~fly.
For easy mode just do 32~SCamp, j3, j3~fly for 508.
Read it here
Click to expand...
There's a few I do that are around 530 at least 50% which is good enough for me, especially online with people with different kinds of wacky connections you know? But yeah the JK JK is impossible mid screen, that has to be near the corner those combos with double JK.
 
Trustful_Whale

Trustful_Whale

Warrior
MKF30 said:
There's a few I do that are around 530 at least 50% which is good enough for me, especially online with people with different kinds of wacky connections you know? But yeah the JK JK is impossible mid screen, that has to be near the corner those combos with double JK.
Click to expand...
I suggest you go back and actually read my exchange with Mandolore. The order of which I respond to his questions should tell you I was talking about corner combos in that part of it.

The 2nd part was mid screen.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Champion
UnshavenRaven said:
Lol TrustfulWhale: "Truth and Light doesn't exist." Well, well, challenge accepted! Lol, all joking aside, I took a little break from Raijin and started sharpening my skills with Truth & Light earlier today and jumped on Ranked. I actually did pretty well lol. Won a solid amount of matches once I got into the groove of staff pressure.

One of the cool things on Truth and Light is how you can basically turn amped lightning bolts into "Triple Bolts", by holding the button down and linking to the planted staff. Does nice damage boost, and chip pressure. The ability to choose what distance the staff gets planted is a cool feature as well. I might upload some of these matches one of these days.
Click to expand...


I find that with how slow Raiden's projectiles are, and with how short a duration the staff is out, it's hard to get much pressure and damage consistently from this.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Trustful_Whale said:
I suggest you go back and actually read my exchange with Mandolore. The order of which I respond to his questions should tell you I was talking about corner combos in that part of it.

The 2nd part was mid screen.
Click to expand...
Ahh so it was a corner. I figured when I saw two jk jk. But yeah I read it.
 
MKF30

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Marlow said:
I find that with how slow Raiden's projectiles are, and with how short a duration the staff is out, it's hard to get much pressure and damage consistently from this.
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I just hate how slow the recovery is namely on his lightning strike.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Fox’s Raijin VS Foxy’s Infinite Warden again. Not a lot of new stuff, but note Foxy’s usage of FB reversal U2 to punish discharge attempts after Geras’ F212.
 
Mandolore1123

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Mandolore1123 said:
Fox’s Raijin VS Foxy’s Infinite Warden again. Not a lot of new stuff, but note Foxy’s usage of FB reversal U2 to punish discharge attempts after Geras’ F212.
Click to expand...
I’d like to see Fox bring his Raijin against other MUs and how he really holds up, especially those with good projectiles/pressure.
 
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