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Match-up Discussion Qwark's Subzero matchup chart

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Its based on the character and the opponent and the situation. Take Sonya.. She cannot get up without meter.. Normally I run from her, but if I knock her down and she has no meter, then I make sure she never gets up.. unless I have a substantial lead, which at that point the main goal is to preserve a SUBSTANTIAL life lead.

Also.. a saying vs a cornered Sonya is "if she has one bar, she has no bars" when you have a breaker. What this means is that even if she uses ex cartwheel while cornered, as long as you have a breaker you can disregard it. Even if it hits, you break the second hit which counts as an air breaker that leaves you at advantage, now she is knocked down and in the corner with no meter. You will build meter back through your pressure and hit her no matter how she tries to get get out, until she has meter again.


So the REAL answer is.. there is no way to know when to do what.. it all varies case by case against every character, situation, and player.
Thanks for the reply, it explained everything I wanted to know.

Considering you won't play MK9 anymore, is it safe to say that you'll at least be on the forums, considering the knowledge you've acquired and can share with us?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
LOL, no.. why would I do that? ....

To read every day how terrible I am? How I'm over rated, how much of a fraud I am, delusional to think I'm top or even good? I already know I was bad, no need to read it EVERY DAY in a new thread.

To read how I am one of the biggest problems here and am not wanted around? I got it and I obliged, no need to come back around to read stuff like this every day.


But I'm sure I'll be forced to come back in a few months to put out another false rumor fire about me.
Is it really that hard to shut all the jealous bitches out? Why would you not stay for those who actually appreciate what you have to say and fully respect you? You're one of the few players IMO that isn't a diva and actually help your fellow lin kuei instead of trolling all the time.

Idiots are everywhere, it's up to you to decide whether they'll affect you and all the help you can give to those accepting of it.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
LOL, no.. why would I do that? ....
But I'm sure I'll be forced to come back in a few months to put out another false rumor fire about me.
Or to contribute to the inevitable discussion on how "Man of Steel" is awesome when a review thread is made for that movie when it comes out.

Seriously, this movie is higher on my list of movies to see this Summer than Star Trek Into Darkness. THAT is saying something.

/ThreadDerailment
 
Is it really that hard to shut all the jealous bitches out? Why would you not stay for those who actually appreciate what you have to say and fully respect you? You're one of the few players IMO that isn't a diva and actually help your fellow lin kuei instead of trolling all the time.

Idiots are everywhere, it's up to you to decide whether they'll affect you and all the help you can give to those accepting of it.
See this is what you miss.. I came in here to offer advice.. Then you asked me a strategy queston which I answered. You then asked if I'd stick around, which I answered... then you get..


[quote
Here we go again...

As if I came in here not to help and answer your question, but to piss and moan which is NOT what I did or was doing. Qwark asked and I answered, but me coming in to help will always be turned into a thread derail.

anyway, i'm gonna scoot out before it happens lol
 
Qwark28 to better answer your question...

Its not a matter of shutting out trolls, no one cares about trolls...All of the top players would come back the day the community awards consistency and not who just placed top for the first time yesterday over established top players. Give players who finally break through props without saying "hmmm... which top player has to be replaced now?" ... This is not my reason for avoiding though, but a reason that most of the tops do.
 
Reactions: SLy

TakeAChance

TYM White Knight
Qwark28 to better answer your question...

Its not a matter of shutting out trolls, no one cares about trolls... Myself and all of the top players would come back the day the community awards consistency and not who just placed top for the first time yesterday over established top players. Give players who finally break through props without saying "hmmm... which top player has to be replaced now?" ... Then we'll all come back
*sigh*

This will be the only post I make in this thread from here on out because I have told you 1000 times Tom. The only player that needs to think that Tom Brady is a better player and give him more credit is Tom Brady.

Going away to make a point about legacy is moronic. The easiest way to be forgotten is to dissapear. You know this. That's why you all come back, and we appreciate you for this.

I know you will respond and probably berate me and ignore all of the good that I wrote and pick out the one flaw in my posting. Before you do, please know that this is not an attack, trick, or post to discredit you. It is a sincere post thanking you for your contributions.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Please keep the next posts on-topic, it's very nice to see TB again but let's not forget what this thread was made for.
 
*sigh*

This will be the only post I make in this thread from here on out because I have told you 1000 times Tom. The only player that needs to think that Tom Brady is a better player and give him more credit is Tom Brady.

Going away to make a point about legacy is moronic. The easiest way to be forgotten is to dissapear. You know this. That's why you all come back, and we appreciate you for this.

I know you will respond and probably berate me and ignore all of the good that I wrote and pick out the one flaw in my posting. Before you do, please know that this is not an attack, trick, or post to discredit you. It is a sincere post thanking you for your contributions.

I don't think you quite understand lol... I admit that I'm bad because its the popular opinion and not what I believe to be true. These trolls here cannot change the facts that I am one of the top 10 most accomplished MK9 players, regardless of who places top for the first time tomorrow. The results are written in stone and I don't care about someone's hot air that disappears the moment it comes out of their mouth. I don't avoid TYM because on any kind of legacy crap, I avoid it for my own protections at times, and this happens to be one of those times.


sorry for the off topic stuff Qwark.. back on to Sub..
 
LOL, no.. why would I do that? ....

To read every day how terrible I am? How I'm over rated, how much of a fraud I am, delusional to think I'm top or even good? I already know I was bad, no need to read it EVERY DAY in a new thread. There is nothing dumber then coming back from another top placement at a 100+ man major to read countless threads arguing on how bad you really are lol.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
I have nothing against Hidan ...... but i'm not spouting BS.
He did combo's that require little to no execution.... didn't use 4~RH or 4,3~RH at all from what I saw, didn't use hsi armor... nor steal meter.

Its not that i'm bashing him, he just has a ton to learn with the character. That is a pure fact. When your Rain BNB's don't involve taking almost half life... then you are still not at top level. I'd say this about anyone who played the character. I've NEVER claimed myself to be top anything. But i've been accused MULTIPLE time of not knowing much of anything, simply because I play a majority of my MK matches online. Pretty shitty logic if you ask me.
I totally get what you're doing and I respect the hell out of it. My post wasn't to bash any player. I probably could of went about it a bit nicer... but Qwark doesn't exactly come off as the type that will accept nice. I'd defend my group till I die... wrong or right. But My posts are NEVER to bash another player for how they played.

I simply get fed up with the constant counter "word fighting" that happens in these discussions. I know it has to happen..... but it gets to a point to where it just doens't matter. We are at that point. Its funny becausse I actually enjoy most of qwarks actual tech and thought process. I just don't like how it comes across. But thats just being bitchy.

In any case... I said my piece. I honestly don't have a problem with you, qwark, hidan... anyone.

Funny, cause from what i saw most of his BnB's consisted of 40%+ dmg during his fight against Qwark. Even the AA combos were pretty much damaging to say the least, so i think you need to watch the fight again. He used EX bubble as well during his combos, but only when Qwark was close to getting a breaker. hsi armor ? you mean the EX damage boost ? We had discussed about that and he told me that he doesnt feel comfortable using that move. Its suits his playstyle better to save the meter for EX bubbles and EX RH's. His Rain still has room for improvement, but by all means he is not "average". As i told you in my previous post, he has been playing the character for 3 months seriously. So yeah, there you have it. He is extremely good with the character though and a very patient player in general.

Post edited.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
The main reason being is I can skydrop iceball on reaction and go into rune trap. And although its not the best idea if need be I can break a clone in the corner with ex skydrop. Small hitbox also equals some strings being uppercutted...no 21 staggering
He can always use ice clone and then ice ball and in that case, sky drop gets blown up. Unless if you intend to use the EX version. Also he can easily bait sky drops done in the corner to escape the pressure, by dashing or back dashing and the skydrop will again get blown up. Overall though, i also agree its an even MU. QC's hit box shuts down many of SZ's strings, although QC gets destroyed at sweep range, cause of SZ's superior poking game and proximity clones.

Imo it goes like this:

Full screen: QC wins.
Mid screen:SZ wins slightly.
Up close: Even, cause of QC's hit box.
 

Ninj

Where art thou, MKX Skarlet?
Premium Supporter
3-7 vs Skarlet
Quoted for truth. Could be worse, 2-8 in Skarlet's favor.

If this matchup doesn't feel like 3-7 or 2-8, you're not playing a Skarlet who knows the matchup. The only time this matchup should be even remotely challenging for Skarlet is in the corner with no meter...but with proper use of Teleport and iaDD's, Sub-Zero still has a very difficult time locking her down.

Unfortunately for Sub-Zero, this is one of the matchups where Skarlet's teleport doesn't suck as she can on-reaction punish ice ball.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
Oh no ermac needs you to block the fireball. Its the fireball block stun that allows him to get away with this.

If you crouch the fireball, then shoot an iceball it will trade with a tkp.

However that would be a bad move on ermacs behalf.

What ermac can do is shoot a fireball and if it is crouched, adapt to what the opponent does. Jump the iceball would be a good move. But thats stepping into theory fighter land. I mean this is something i have done before but it was all reads and reads have no place in mu discussion


Edit: ermac fireball crouched into tkp would also, not be a frame trap.
Thats why you use the EX force ball version for the TKP frame traps, when in full screen. If the opponent blocks it, you dash and check him with a max range TKP. If he angle jumps, you punish him with TKP and if he neutral jumps, you punish him with tp to lift.
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
He can always use ice clone and then ice ball and in that case
ya if this happens its pretty easy to read and throw a trance out, but I see what your saying. I agree with everything else. I dont think 5-5 is too farfetched here, especially when you factor in the rune trap.

I main both characters and it boggles my mind how he can think quan is 6-4 and baraka is 5.5

Just....insanity
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Premium Supporter
ya if this happens its pretty easy to read and throw a trance out.
I meant from full screen. Also i think even if trance trades with ice blast, its an even trade cause both snap out of it fast enough. I could be wrong though, havent played Quan or SZ for quite some time now.
I
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
I meant from full screen. Also i think even if trance trades with ice blast, its an even trade cause both snap out of it fast enough. I could be wrong though, havent played Quan or SZ for quite some time now.
I
Ice Beam will give sub zero the advantage in a trance trade, but regular ice ball Quan gets the advantage
 

SLy

Premium
Premium Supporter
To say Dink would throw away meter is an insult. Dinks entire style/character is all about smart meter management.
I agree but can you really say that how a player utilizes his meter is relevant to a "tool vs tool" discussion. I think in that right sub has the advantage..

Better yet.. I'd say on paper it looks 6-4.. But it can pan out as even when in actual fight. Depends on how you look at it. Either way its completely winnable on both sides.
 

Knoterror

Premium
Premium Supporter
I agree but can you really say that how a player utilizes his meter is relevant to a "tool vs tool" discussion. I think in that right sub has the advantage..

Better yet.. I'd say on paper it looks 6-4.. But it can pan out as even when in actual fight. Depends on how you look at it. Either way its completely winnable on both sides.
With Quan Chi specifically? Yeah I'd say it's relevant when a character has such an extreme comeback factor through the use of meter to the point where he would actively chose not to break damage at times that most other characters would...

Hell, Cyrax with one bar is almost less intimidating than Quan with 3.