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Match-up Discussion Qwark's Subzero matchup chart

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
6-4 vs Baraka
7-3 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
3-7 vs Cyrax
3-7 vs Freddy Krueger
6-4 vs Jade
4-6 vs Jax
6-4 vs Johnny Cage
3-7 vs Kabal
8-2 vs Kano
1-9 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Kitana
4-6 vs Kung Lao
4-6 vs Liu Kang
6-4 vs Mileena
7-3 vs Nightwolf
4-6 vs Noob Saibot
6-4 vs Quan Chi
4-6 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Reptile
4-6 vs Scorpion
5-5 vs Sektor
4-6 vs Shang Tsung
7-3 vs Sheeva
4-6 vs Sindel
3-7 vs Skarlet
3-7 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
6-4 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Ermac

Discuss.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
As I have said, there is no way that Sub goes even with Shang. He does less damage and has to make more risks to win. Even when Sub the life lead, he still has to get in and take risks because he will be chipped to death if he doesn't.
Which is exactly why this is MY chart.

he does the same exact damage when they get a combo, shang needs to burn meter if he wants to outdamage him.

sub doesn't have to take many risks, once he gets in and stays close shang has limited options.

he won't be chipped to death with a healthy lifelead after all this time spent gaining it and pushing shang in the corner.

sub in the corner and on wakeup is free, a position reversing armoured special from a character like sub really fucks shit up when it hits.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
Which is exactly why this is MY chart.

he does the same exact damage when they get a combo, shang needs to burn meter if he wants to outdamage him.

sub doesn't have to take many risks, once he gets in and stays close shang has limited options.

he won't be chipped to death with a healthy lifelead after all this time spent gaining it and pushing shang in the corner.

sub in the corner and on wakeup is free, a position reversing armoured special from a character like sub really fucks shit up when it hits.
You make it sound like Sub is Cage. HOW does he stay in when his only offensive tools are D4, D3 and standing 2? Shang can outrange all of those options with his D3, D4, close GS and SS.
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Shang can out zone Sub. I agree with cowboy on this one. Also, SZ does not have equal dmg with Shang with his combos. Plus, Shang= unbreakable combos man, and some of them hurt. Damage boost at the end of the round. Up close EX SS> anything Sub has. I believe this is 6 - 4 Shang imo. Also SZ - Raka is an even MU and there is no way in hell Sonya - SZ is an even MU. 6 - 4 Sonya. Stop trolling Qwark.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
You make it sound like Sub is Cage. HOW does he stay in when his only offensive tools are D4, D3 and standing 2? Shang can outrange all of those options with his D3, D4, close GS and SS.
SS can be jumped, its a read, just like SSing because you read it's going to be blocked.

GS can be ice blasted

SS on hit makes a subzero mirror, do you really wanna play that vs a subzero main?

subs D4 is faster than shangs and 0 on block

no d3 in the game reaches longer than subs d4, if a sub is trying to D4 you and you're d3ing him first then he doesnt maintain proper d4 spacing

subs d3 on hit is +2 and makes his D4 6 frames fast, if need be, f4 gs can be slid through, thats something shang has to worry when sub has his back in the corner and hes pressuring him, other than sub already having gained entry.

shang has no oki

one iceball is triple the chip sub receives for trying to get in

iceball is 24f startup and trades from midscreen and on

a groundskull has to be enhanced in order to get a lil bit more than what sub would get from an iceball

FULLSCREEN- shang wins
MIDSCREEN- would be even if shang didnt have to spend bars to outdamage his potential dmg
CORNER- sub rapes.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Shang can out zone Sub. I agree with cowboy on this one. Also, SZ does not have equal dmg with Shang with his combos. Plus, Shang= unbreakable combos man, and some of them hurt. Damage boost at the end of the round. Up close EX SS> anything Sub has. I believe this is 6 - 4 Shang imo. Also SZ - Raka is an even MU and there is no way in hell Sonya - SZ is an even MU. 6 - 4 Sonya. Stop trolling Qwark.
No trolling in this thread, anyone trolling just for the fun of it will be warned.
Qwark28
You forgot 6-4 vs Kratos. :p
fine >.>
It would be helpful if you stated why with logic and constructive feedback instead of negative vagueness.
This is what you do before posting your opinion, I don't care if you disagree, I care about WHY you disagree.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
SS can be jumped, its a read, just like SSing because you read it's going to be blocked.

GS can be ice blasted

SS on hit makes a subzero mirror, do you really wanna play that vs a subzero main?

subs D4 is faster than shangs and 0 on block

no d3 in the game reaches longer than subs d4, if a sub is trying to D4 you and you're d3ing him first then he doesnt maintain proper d4 spacing

subs d3 on hit is +2 and makes his D4 6 frames fast, if need be, f4 gs can be slid through, thats something shang has to worry when sub has his back in the corner and hes pressuring him, other than sub already having gained entry.

shang has no oki

one iceball is triple the chip sub receives for trying to get in

iceball is 24f startup and trades from midscreen and on

a groundskull has to be enhanced in order to get a lil bit more than what sub would get from an iceball

FULLSCREEN- shang wins
MIDSCREEN- would be even if shang didnt have to spend bars to outdamage his potential dmg
CORNER- sub rapes.
Sir you have O B V I O U S L Y not played a decent shang let alone a masterful one
 
explain, classy thing.
Sindel
Zoning is a problem, but she eventually will be cornered. That's the death of her. No armor, no teleport, nothing.
She dominated full screen, he dominates at the wall.

Jade- Her green glow bypasses clones and eliminates some pressure. Ex Glow to get out of the corner.
Sub cannot throw out iceballs at all = Flash shadow kick x 2.


Kitana, we already talked about on RS lol.

just very short answers, ive posted these in depth alot
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Sir you have O B V I O U S L Y not played a decent shang let alone a masterful one
Thank you for the delightful comment that adds nothing to the conversation between me and Wound, I wonder if Brady or Denzell have played one.

see espios post before you further post, this thread isn't meant for attacking players, it's meant to post matchup information, thoughts and opinions.
 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
SS can be jumped, its a read, just like SSing because you read it's going to be blocked.

GS can be ice blasted

SS on hit makes a subzero mirror, do you really wanna play that vs a subzero main?

subs D4 is faster than shangs and 0 on block

no d3 in the game reaches longer than subs d4, if a sub is trying to D4 you and you're d3ing him first then he doesnt maintain proper d4 spacing

subs d3 on hit is +2 and makes his D4 6 frames fast, if need be, f4 gs can be slid through, thats something shang has to worry when sub has his back in the corner and hes pressuring him, other than sub already having gained entry.

shang has no oki

one iceball is triple the chip sub receives for trying to get in

iceball is 24f startup and trades from midscreen and on

a groundskull has to be enhanced in order to get a lil bit more than what sub would get from an iceball
But as I said, throwing the iceball out is a big risk. If it is jumped, shang gets a full combo (and he hits harder than Sub) and if it is mistime, Shang gets a full unbreakable combo. You act like you can freeze my SS or ice blast on reaction, which is not possible- it is a read and you have to commit well ahead of time. I don't fear getting hit by Sub because he hits like a wimp. Also Shang does have oki- SS and D3 will hit while you are grounded, and you must commit to a wake up in order to beat them. I have played the best Sub's in the world- where did you get your Shang MU experience?
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Sindel
Zoning is a problem, but she eventually will be cornered. That's the death of her. No armor, no teleport, nothing.
She dominated full screen, he dominates at the wall.

Jade- Her green glow bypasses clones and eliminates some pressure. Ex Glow to get out of the corner.
Sub cannot throw out iceballs at all = Flash shadow kick x 2.


Kitana, we already talked about on RS lol.

just very short answers, ive posted these in depth alot
almost convinced on sindel, whats your opinion on the midscreen matchup?

about jade, sub won't iceball until the glow is nearly up, at that point she has to re-glow.

bypassing clones is also affected by this, if she's outa mojo when she's walkin' through one, you got a lime flavoured ice cream.

hadn't we agreed about kitana being 6 4? it could very well be 7 3 (barely IMO) but I believe it's 6 4
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
But as I said, throwing the iceball out is a big risk. If it is jumped, shang gets a full combo (and he hits harder than Sub) and if it is mistime, Shang gets a full unbreakable combo. You act like you can freeze my SS or ice blast on reaction, which is not possible- it is a read and you have to commit well ahead of time. I don't fear getting hit by Sub because he hits like a wimp. Also Shang does have oki- SS and D3 will hit while you are grounded, and you must commit to a wake up in order to beat them. I have played the best Sub's in the world- where did you get your Shang MU experience?
Exactly, that's my point, you sometimes will have to jump in order to counter it, that means you're not zoning and can be punished.

shang doesn't hit harder than sub without spending meter.

subzero gets 21% + guaranteed chip damage and meter off of every iceball

don't put words in my mouth, i never said freeze SS on reaction, i said jump it on a read, which can, of course, be punished. Same with iceball which beats GS

ice clone, timed right, ss doesnt hit, d3 barely doesnt, get too happy with that and you'll be frozen.

question, frame data on d3 to stand up? brady had told me its - but i really dont think it is.

you've played brady or denzell? I remember Brady saying its dead even.

I've played shang since almost release, not on your lvl, but I have a more than pretty good understanding of the game.