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General/Other - Piercing Piercing Variation General Discussion

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
The way I OS B12 is B12 roll BB and that works and is easier.

However, does she still have the 21 OS? They must have changed it because I can no longer do 21rollu4. I saw lionheart say its 2b1d4u4 now which is basically bye felcia for me.
Yes she does. It requires a very quick u4 after roll in order to get u4 on block. Also if you rush the OS too much you wont get roll on hit.

hmm, can you option select into other specials as well? Like 2?~bd4~bf3 (21~roll~low sai)?
You can but A) they require very quick inputs, which I can only manage on a fightstick, and B) why would you want to end a safe string with an unsafe special?
 
You can but A) they require very quick inputs, which I can only manage on a fightstick, and B) why would you want to end a safe string with an unsafe special?
Mostly theory. Obviously I wouldn't base my whole game around it, but in that case, 21~Roll would come out on hit. On block, 21~Low Sai would come out, hitting them if they stand to block the usual u4 ender.
 
apologies if this was asked earlier but I'm really struggling with the dd2 extender after doing the b+1,2,1+3 string. Tried mashing dd2 and I still don't get consistent results. Is there a visual cue I should watch out for when inputting the extender?
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Premium Supporter
apologies if this was asked earlier but I'm really struggling with the dd2 extender after doing the b+1,2,1+3 string. Tried mashing dd2 and I still don't get consistent results. Is there a visual cue I should watch out for when inputting the extender?
Just input it all as one string and it should hit consistently, no need to mash :)
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
Ok so today I went into the lab to explore Mileenas AA options and while some of this stuff is known I would like to share. Since I feel stopping and preventing bad jump-ins should be a refined aspect of any fighting game players arsenal. Mind you these are what I found to be general go-to's. Some of it may not work in certain match ups while other things, such as f4 low profiling and punishing Kung Laos spaced out jf2, are matchup specific and not worth mentioning.

2 - 8 frame start up, hits as a high, and good AA hitbox. Good for catching crossovers or when the opponent delays their jump in attack. To maximize damage potential follow up with f23xx roll into your ender of choice or you can another 2, b12xx roll for some extra damage.

1 - works just like 2 however I prefer 2 due it's faster startup and extra active frame. I'm only putting this here due to the fact it has slightly longer range.

D1 - 9 frame start up. Situational AA, for example an opponent is trying to cross you over to start their pressure and does early jump in punches, d1 will low profile and hit them in most circumstances. This can also work as an unorthodox low profile move due to a very peculiar hurt box that almost seems to push the opponent away in some instances. Same follow up mentioned above applies after a successful AA.

D3 - the beauty in this move is the ability to low profile and it's quick recovery. Because of this it's possible to throw out d3 and punish your opponents landing frames with either d2, 21, or raw roll. The window for a successful follow up seems to be inputting d3 just as the opponent is coming out of the apex of their jump. This is a relatively advanced yomi tactic so be mindful of what you're committing to. If you want to play it safe you can always try to simply establish your own pressure game instead punishing.

D2 - no explanation here. Great for stopping jump ins due to its speed (8 frames) and hitbox. Become familiar with the deadzones (areas where it's risky to throw out if the opponent empty jumps or can whiff entirely) and use it. Now here's something you guys may not know, if your uppercut trades against jump in punches Mileena will stay grounded. Train yourself to see this and input low sai for 18%. If you're close to or in the corner you can ball roll, walk forward, njp b212+4 for 32% or go for a hard knockdown.

Roll/EX Roll - 8 frame startup, covers 3/4 of a full screen, incredibly low profile hurtbox. If done too early your roll will whiff but this is not bad thing seeing as it resets the neutral game. Be wary, the viability of this depends on the matchup. Characters with low reaching jump ins such as Jason and Kung Lao can blow this option up. However ex roll can work well against attacks like these and as a AA in general. This can also work well to stop crossovers. Typical roll follow ups work such as b34xx sai, but in some cases Mileena will travel further than normal. You can either immediately dash in, njp, b212+4 for a setup and 24% or jfkxx air sai, rc b121+4 for 26%.

U3 - 11 frame start up that can be MB'd into more damage. Does 13% by itself. If you choose to MB midscreen you can do rc, 2, b12/f23xx roll, b212+4 for 37% or end with 21u4 for a hard knockdown. In the corner after roll you can walk forward, d2, 21u4 for 40%. Good tool to stop crossovers and poorly spaced jump ins.

B3 - 15 frame start up which isn't terribly slow. Used to stop forward jumps, the trade off for using this over uppercut is the damage potential, and speed. Buffering telekick into this allows you to combo into air sai, rc f23xxroll then end with a hard knockdown or sadistic ways. For 30% and 35% respectively.

B1 - good situational AA due to its hitbox and speed. Useful for stopping jump ins that are outside of your 2/d2/b3 range and where roll is risky. You can buffer sai for 11%.

Neutral Jump Punch - 6 frame startup, 15 active frames. Decent air-to-air. Has slightly further range than d3. Can lead to 35% if you follow up with fjkxx telekick, air sai, f3xx roll, b212+4. If you're opponent is too low and you don't think f3xx roll will hit you can do roll instead for 33%.

Forward/Back Jump 4 - 8 frame startup, 9 active frames. Slightly better than jump 3 due to it having a more forward angled hitbox and more active frames, however both can be used interchangeably. Can lead to good damage, 30-35%, by canceling with telekick, air sai, f3xxroll, into ender of your choice. Again do raw roll if the opponent seems too low to be able to catch with f3.

Forward/Back Jump 1 - 10 frame startup. A good air-to-air with more vertical space control than jump 4. Same follow ups as above apply for 28-33%.

This next part is for the newer players and to help me gain understanding, seeing as I'm an SF player in transition, so there's a lot to learn! As I'm coming to understand against crossovers, mind you I am relatively new to MK, if the opponent tries to start their pressure with a crossover punch this is where you'll see buttons like d1 and 2 shine. Because it forces your opponent to guess early, in which you use d1, or late, in which you use 2, to counter your button presses. However if the opponent catches onto this or knows this tactic they'll begin to use early crossover kick to snub your AA's entirely. The penalty for this is if they guess wrong and you block, they relinquish pressure. This forces the opponent to either respect you by blocking, jumping again to catch a slow normal (you can answer with an AA in this instance), or armor through your attempt to re-establish pressure.

As I said I'm learning so someone correct me if I'm understanding the meta wrong.
 
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Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
Also here's a nice piece of oki tech you can use against characters that make throwing out f12 a liability. As some of us know b1 has 11 active frames. What this means is if you throw out a meaty b1 that hits around the later active frames, and go into the 2 of b12, it can beat wake ups that go active in 12 frames or slower, clean. Im still testing some things out but it seems to trade/lose with 11 frame reversals and quicker.

This is useful in the mirror match as it stops roll, which can low pro f1, and ex roll.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Premium Supporter
Also here's a nice piece of oki tech you can use against characters that make throwing out f12 a liability. As some of us know b1 has 11 active frames. What this means is if you throw out a meaty b1 that hits around the later active frames, and go into the 2 of b12, it can beat wake ups that go active in 12 frames or slower, clean. Im still testing some things out but it seems to trade/lose with 11 frame reversals and quicker.

This is useful in the mirror match as it stops roll, which can low pro f1, and ex roll.
That's pretty awesome. I wondered whether this string could do the same in stuffing wakeups because B12 has quick hits but forgot. I should really learn to write all thoughts down lol. In theory though if it turns out to be a legit thing then B12 can blow up wake ups and also I think it should catch backdashes as well.
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
I know everyone knows that f12 whiffs on Raiden but I just tested it and it's the same against kitana. Not sure if this is known but I only ever see people complain about it against raiden.
 

Method

Full Combo Punishable
I know everyone knows that f12 whiffs on Raiden but I just tested it and it's the same against kitana. Not sure if this is known but I only ever see people complain about it against raiden.
Both crouch and standing block?
 
Piercing probably whiffs on everybody, the ones that got fixed were Ethereal and Ravenous. Piercing has the sais on F1 which push out too far for the barehanded part to hit right. Needs a fix.
 

Endding

You picked a bad time to get lost friend
The way I OS B12 is B12 roll BB and that works and is easier.

However, does she still have the 21 OS? They must have changed it because I can no longer do 21rollu4. I saw lionheart say its 2b1d4u4 now which is basically bye felcia for me.
Is this strong?

And any tips for this anyone? I only rock the 21 OS currently, really looking to expand my OS.

EDIT: Also back exploring Piercing, what really intrigues me is her restand (F1, 2+4) is there any strong uses for this outside the corner?
 
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TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Premium Supporter
EDIT: Also back exploring Piercing, what really intrigues me is her restand (F1, 2+4) is there any strong uses for this outside the corner?
So far not much midscreen. When ending in F12+4 midscreen it leaves her just out of range of all of her far ranging normals except F3. It can help if you stuff a wake-up with f1 that leaves an opponent airborne like Jax Dash Punch but other than that I'm not sure about any other advantages midscreen
 

Method

Full Combo Punishable
I really wish that string was more viable, I'd love to see it tweaked. Reducing the insane knock back would go a long way. It's hard to justify using it beyond pure swag and/or a one-time "surprize buttseckz!" corner restand against a conditioned opponent.
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
Speaking of useless strings 4u31+2... What the hell is the purpose of that? No follow ups, weakest ender, u3 hitbox is deplorable... I don't get what its suppose to offer, it's not even that flashy, nor does it have a neat brutality associated with it.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Premium Supporter
Speaking of useless strings 4u31+2... What the hell is the purpose of that? No follow ups, weakest ender, u3 hitbox is deplorable... I don't get what its suppose to offer, it's not even that flashy, nor does it have a neat brutality associated with it.
Feel the same with B3434. Anyway I only find that string useful for swag (not a valid reason) or if I want to end corner combos without having to jump out (Rare and Ethereal only).
 
Is there really such a general dislike for Low Sai at tournament level? I can't imagine how people could get this move JIP'd on reaction, when I've caught people as they jump a few times. This is even offline, so no lag to blame. Sure, some characters can block punish this from farther out than most, but just the fact that you have standing sai to throw off their jump timing, I don't see this happening all the time.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
Premium Supporter
Is there really such a general dislike for Low Sai at tournament level? I can't imagine how people could get this move JIP'd on reaction, when I've caught people as they jump a few times. This is even offline, so no lag to blame. Sure, some characters can block punish this from farther out than most, but just the fact that you have standing sai to throw off their jump timing, I don't see this happening all the time.
Depends, if it is used too much it is quite easy to react to and JIP to full combo. I guess that risk is maybe why people don't use it often at tournament. Then again I haven't really seen Piercing Mileena in tournaments, mainly Ravenous.
 

Nu-Skoool

Feel the nerf of despair
You're not reacting to a 14frame projectile, plain and simple. Know your ranges, which are 1. around poke range and 2. outside of the opponents jump arc.

Projectiles thrown in zone 1 are unreactable, only way you're getting hit here is on a read, projectiles in zone 2 are reactable but are safe from jump ins, most armor but can lose to teleports. The area between these two spaces are a fireball dead zone where your opponent can react and punish or begin their pressure because you don't have time to counter their attempt to get in.

As for low sai I use primarly to counter projectiles from full screen and to help keep opponents honest in neutral, with my ultimate goal being I want them to jump so I can AA with roll or punish armor attempts in.

Knowing how to throw projectiles is simple on paper but you have to read your opponent, change your timings, bait etc... If your opponent is just standing there not pushing buttons he's obviously looking for you to throw something so he can counter, so instead make him look at you feet by using your normals, once he's locked into the footsie battle, throw your projectile to catch him moving in, counter his normal, and lock him down. This will either force him to try to get around them, which you look for and punish, or they will respect your projectile game, in which you move in and start your game. These are the basics to how projectiles are suppose to be used.
 
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