Petition to let custom variation in competitive play MK11

[NothingPersonal]

Because NRS knows better and knows wtf they're doing.

Not saying they don't, just suggesting they should.

 

[villainous monk]

Of course you can't, no one can because, you know, the game's not out yet . But if they decide to scrap it all together, we could never find out how it'd turn out competitively.

I hear you. It's just if NRS wanted to do something like this I tend to think they would've done it already.

 

[TheJaquio]

How about we don't start petitions to change gameplay elements that we don't yet fully comprehend, for a game that doesn't come out for another 3 months?

 

[Gamer68]

Just wanted to post my thoughts real quick:

Custom variations being allowed for competitive is actually what I wanted when I first heard them. I was hoping you could choose your character then maybe 2-3 moves from a short list. It would be quick and the moves would be kinda basic, so it would be balanced better. But after seeing them, they do not work that way and they shouldn't be allowed for competitive for a few reasons:

1. Considering the amount of combinations, balance is most likely going to be a nightmare.
   
2. Even if the balance was okay, the amount of combinations means players would have to learn to much. Move A being paired with Move B could be completely different to handle in comparison to Move A paired with Move C. Now imagine that but with way more combos that just A, B, and C.
   
3. Having to wait for each player to set-up a custom variation when you already have to wait for them to set-up controls, do button checks, etc, would mean it would take to long to get into the match.

Variations should be regulated, and they are (3 competitive variations has been confirmed), and I think it should stay that way.

 

[HeavyNorse]

I mean, there could be made tournaments where custom variations would be the way to go. They could just not play the "Tournament" mode, but just go into normal local VS.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Custom variations being hard to balance because of the possible combinations is like saying all 3v3 fighters should be 1v1 because of possible broken combinations. The difference is, in MK11 they won't have to nerf an entire character to fix a certain combination. Instead nerf the properties or the slot requirement of the move.

And saying the moves are cheap gimmicky moves meant for casual play. Lol, those same move will be included in the variations. So good luck avoiding Geras mains timer scamming you.

Almost all 3v3 games have a very limited set of interactions between the characters that you can define and balance around. It's not like you can use them all at the same time.. There are tags/swaps, assists, and couple other situations.

If you could use any move from any character at any time with no rules about swaps/tags and special team combos it would be a nightmare to balance unless you made the characters fairly generic and similar to each other.

Imo this is apples and oranges, and doesn't have much to do with allowing someone to pick specifically which special moves they want to combine with a certain character.

 

[Kroaken]

Almost all 3v3 games have a very limited set of interactions between the characters that you can define and balance around. It's not like you can use them all at the same time.. There are tags/swaps, assists, and couple other situations.

If you could use any move from any character at any time with no rules about swaps/tags and special team combos it would be a nightmare to balance unless you made the characters fairly generic and similar to each other.

Imo this is apples and oranges, and doesn't have much to do with allowing someone to pick specifically which special moves they want to combine with a certain character.

The argument you're making MAKES it apples to oranges. Of course being able to use any move from your assists would be insane. But in regards to time constraints argument, which some are making, the marvel community has made it work for years.

Just to reiterate my personal stance, in case it should affect how my argument is taken, it would be cool, of course. But if variations as we know them from mkx are the best way for the competitive scene to continue forward, sick. But give us variations and not this amalgam of Injustice 2 gear moves crammed into variations. It just seems messy to me. That said, if anyone has access to a list of the pre-canned gear moves that we'll likely be using as variations, it would be appreciated and maybe set some of this at ease.

 

[Kroaken]

How about we don't start petitions to change gameplay elements that we don't yet fully comprehend, for a game that doesn't come out for another 3 months?

Petitions might be overdoing it, but no. This is the PERFECT time for people to express their opinions on design choices made for the game, whether we agree or not.

@NothingPersonal I understand where you're coming from, but I think, in all reality, it'll probably just end up as 3 variations like before. Hopefully they're better packaged than they were at mk day though.

 

[Cashual]

And how do you know that?

You said so?

 

[Cashual]

And how do you know that?

Also, you still haven’t responded to my question/suggestion.

 

[SGX]

If we have time for people to fully create Mii fighters, we have time for people to select a couple of moves on a variation.

I'm just hoping that a.) it's relatively balanced and b.) The community is at least open to the idea of allowing custom variations instead of banning them right off the bat

 

[Kroaken]

If we have time for people to fully create Mii fighters, we have time for people to select a couple of moves on a variation.

I'm just hoping that a.) it's relatively balanced and b.) The community is at least open to the idea of allowing custom variations instead of banning them right off the bat

Yeah. Time isn't a very strong argument. Time wise, it's doable. Someone above, forgive my laziness/unwillingness to credit them, mentioned counterpicking/who chooses first and that's a better argument against it.

 

[theotherguy]

I say they leave the option for the custom variation to be available for competitive play and if it doesn't turn out viable, the community or tournament organizers can ban them and turn to preset variations, which will be in the game regardless. I'm advocating for the custom variation as an available option, not as obligatory.

This is a discussion for the TO's and the community. And based on the threads discussing this so far it seems that it's not being looked at favourably.

NRS is looking at pre-defined variations as the solution to allow for competitive play, but the custom option will still be there. It's up to the community to decide if the custom variation is viable and and not broken. This is the million dollar question - whether they can make it viable at a competitive level?

It's an interesting discussion to have, but i think we need to see how it plays out with the final setup, what the pre-defined variations are, what the custom variation offers, how they balance the multitude of permutations of moves. Do some testing in the real world and see how things play out.

Ultimately, the custom variations was always a marketing ploy for the the casuals; the 90% of the gamers that pickup the game, oooh aaah over the blood and fatalities and then move on to the next game of the month.

Everything else, that is the mechanics behind Krushing blows, Fatal blows, revised meter system etc is what is going to be the core of the game and what should be the focus.

Don't you think it'll resonate more with the casuals if they see said cool moves used in tournamet play?

No. I might be wrong, but i don't think most casuals know or even care about tournaments. As mentioned above the 90% that buy the game do so because it's the flavour of the month. The number that stick with it after that is tiny by comparison, and the number that play competitively is smaller again.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

The argument you're making MAKES it apples to oranges. Of course being able to use any move from your assists would be insane. But in regards to time constraints argument, which some are making, the marvel community has made it work for years.

That's because the pacing of the actual Marvel match is ridiculously fast (which is partly because Marvel has been so broken for so long). A couple happy birthdays and a match can literally be over in the blink of an eye.

Games like Injustice don't move at that pace, so it's a much different consideration.

 

[Kroaken]

That's because the pacing of the actual Marvel match is ridiculously fast (which is partly because Marvel has been so broken for so long). A couple happy birthdays and a match can literally be over in the blink of an eye.

Games like Injustice don't move at that pace, so it's a much different consideration.

I see what you're saying, but I still don't think that argument in particular is a strong one. Maybe this is one of those agree to disagree moments

 

[mastermalone]

That’s the thing though, there aren’t cool moves in injustice 2 that are just never used. They’re used a ton....by the much, much larger casual player base who mostly play towers and casual games online with gear, stats and abilities enabled.

It’s cool that we get both. I love that the devs can be like: “wouldn’t it be fucking cool if captain cold could like build platforms he could jump on and stuff?!” And explore these amazing, imaginative gameplay ideas that we in turn can fuck around with without in turn making them game a total mess of nonsense.

Do we really want a character that can rewind time and undo some favorable postion and work that you’ve done with db3 or whatever?

I don’t know. I don’t get the argument “but there’s all these cool moves we can’t use” because it’s not true and to me they’re a cool bonus, not a cruel tease.

You are correct about the casuals being the only ones to really use these gear moves in injustice 2. The problem is that we will never fully explore what the game fully offers. The devs can balance any move they see fit.

The Geras move you referenced that rewinds time can be balanced by allowing the time/position reset, not gain any life lost and removing his meter for the remainder of the round since it's such a good move. This is an example of what should be a 3 slot move.

There are so many ways to deal with powerful moves. But I do respect your your point because you are not wrong.

 

[GrandMasterson]

Nah, leave that stuff for online.

 

[NothingPersonal]

You said so?

I don't think I ever said I wouldn't travel for MK11, but that's beside the point. What if customs do turn out to be viable competitively? In that situation there's no point for presets, unless you personally like how they play. It's just an option to be explored, which the devs want to take away.

 

[pure.Wasted]

That's because the pacing of the actual Marvel match is ridiculously fast (which is partly because Marvel has been so broken for so long). A couple happy birthdays and a match can literally be over in the blink of an eye.

Games like Injustice don't move at that pace, so it's a much different consideration.

No one said that players should be able to switch variations after every match, or even after every set. Maybe only the loser can switch. Maybe players only get one variation per character per match. Maybe they only get one variation per character per tournament. There are many ways to lower downtime to basically nothing.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

No one said that players should be able to switch variations after every match, or even after every set. Maybe only the loser can switch. Maybe they only get one variation per character per match. Maybe they only get one variation per character per tournament. There are many ways to lower downtime to basically nothing.

It's standard for people to be able to switch variation after every game if they lose. This definitely isn't going to change in MK11.

 

[pure.Wasted]

It's standard for people to be able to switch variation after every game if they lose. This definitely isn't going to change in MK11.

So just because MKX had it that way, that means it can never be changed now...?

Even if that's so, you can have custom variations be saved onto unique accounts, or onto the tournament account, ahead of time, so that custom variations have to be created before the tournament starts and your only option during the tournament is which one you want to use.

There's so many options to explore in decreasing downtime.

Besides all of which, I don't know why anyone should be so concerned with downtime to begin with. You know how much downtime there is in the NFL? No one gives a shit. You know how much downtime there is in the Overwatch League? No one gives a shit. If your game is exciting enough, people will tune in, downtime or no. If the game isn't drawing viewers, there are bigger problems than ten seconds added to the start of every match.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Besides all of which, I don't know why anyone should be so concerned with downtime to begin with. You know how much downtime there is in the NFL? No one gives a shit. You know how much downtime there is in the Overwatch League? No one gives a shit. If your game is exciting enough, people will tune in, downtime or no. If the game isn't drawing viewers, there are bigger problems than ten seconds added to the start of every match.

Esports downtime in a league where there are only 3 matches per day with each match being 30 mins to an hour, or pro sports downtime in a single two hour match is very different from the delays that add up when you need to run a 500-man bracket in a tournament that ultimately needs to feature 7 Top 8’s in one day. It’s an open bracket, which is a totally different science.

If you know how FGC events work, you’d know why they are not at all comparable.

 

[Zaccel]

I'm not opposed to separate "custom" tournaments brackets. If anything it'd be a useful experiment to stress test its potential. But I can't help but foresee such custom brackets being a real handful. The larger a number of entrants, the more exponentially difficult they could become to manage.

I will relent and say that, in the context of money matches or exhibitions, custom variations would be much more controllable and therefore more engrossing.

 

[RoboCop]

Starting a petition to affect competitive play based on mechanics for a game that doesn't come out for 3 months is the most insane post I've seen on here, and that includes those crazy spam bot posts! Discussing the pros and cons is one thing, but actually trying to enact change through change.org is straight-up batshit.

 

[Wigy]

No, it would be a complete shitshow