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Patch reaction

kcd117

Noob
not even fixing 33 string just doesn't make sense for me. I mean, they can be afraid to buff him this early but that was a needed fix. What's even the point of that move? being named function-kneeing properly while not really functioning properly just to troll Tom? That's very very silly tbh.
The pushback thing is also something that needs to go, hope they didn't say anything about sub zero bc they are fixing this whole mechanic and not just him specifically.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
It might be indeed be possible it was designed that way. After all Sub was released a couple of weeks ago, he wasn't tested enough by the community, no disrespect to Tom of course.

I like it so far.

not even fixing 33 string just doesn't make sense for me. I mean, they can be afraid to buff him this early but that was a needed fix. What's even the point of that move? being named function-kneeing properly while not really functioning properly just to troll Tom? That's very very silly tbh.
The pushback thing is also something that needs to go, hope they didn't say anything about sub zero bc they are fixing this whole mechanic and not just him specifically.
If it was designed that way then it does make sense.
 

kcd117

Noob
It might be indeed be possible it was designed that way. After all Sub was released a couple of weeks ago, he wasn't tested enough by the community, no disrespect to Tom of course.

I like it so far.



If it was designed that way then it does make sense.
You mean the 33 string? why list it as a mid mid then? If it is supposed to whiff on ducking characters I don't see the point on it being a mid. I actually don't see a point in this whole string if it is supposed to be a mid high tbh.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
You mean the 33 string? why list it as a mid mid then? If it is supposed to whiff on ducking characters I don't see the point on it being a mid. I actually don't see a point in this whole string if it is supposed to be a mid high tbh.
I use this string in juggle combos, I got few of those. I don't think it was meant to be a string in neutral, that is why it is technically a mid-mid string but can't work on all ducking characters but only either standing or in a juggle.
 

Shaka

Tier Whore.
What people wanna see is high level competition and a growing community of players constantly pushing the skill ceiling. When that goes away a competitive fighting game is in fact "dead" it's best days are behind it and it's lost the hype. By your definition no game has ever died since you could always play your roommate or single player.
If they wanna see that they should level up and go to tournaments, don't let the game die.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
This reminded me of how long i have complained for Hat Trick's juggle height to be fixed since 2015 only to have addressed in the very last patch, just hope they don't give you the same treatment.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
That small hurt-box shit with the 3,3 string has been a problem forever. Sub-Zero in MK9 had a "mid" standing 2 that was his best normal....

Unless you faced King Lao, Jax, Sonya, Kitana... basically 1/3 of the roster. Because that move turned into a high against them.

There's other examples of inconsistent collision, inconsistent juggle height, breathing hit-/hurt-boxes, etc.

Players seem to want things more consistent, but it's still around after four games.
 
So the whole troll string that begins with a knee that It's supposedly to be working properly actually doesn't. Good job NRS:mad::mad::mad::mad:. The joke's on You. Fix the female hurt box bullshit NRS. You have a chance to do what It's right now.
 
So the whole troll string that begins with a knee that It's supposedly to be working properly actually doesn't. Good job NRS:mad::mad::mad::mad:. The joke's on You. Fix the female hurt box bullshit NRS. You have a chance to do what It's right now.
It's not just females that are the problem with that string. The second hit of the string will sometimes whiff on ANY character while they're standing, even if you're standing right next to them. Happens the most in the corner. Ridiculous.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Covered pretty accurately, idk why they didn't do the fixes, real shame.
This reminded me of how long i have complained for Hat Trick's juggle height to be fixed since 2015 only to have addressed in the very last patch, just hope they don't give you the same treatment.
So the whole troll string that begins with a knee that It's supposedly to be working properly actually doesn't. Good job NRS:mad::mad::mad::mad:. The joke's on You. Fix the female hurt box bullshit NRS. You have a chance to do what It's right now.
Keep reading below.

That small hurt-box shit with the 3,3 string has been a problem forever. Sub-Zero in MK9 had a "mid" standing 2 that was his best normal....

Unless you faced King Lao, Jax, Sonya, Kitana... basically 1/3 of the roster. Because that move turned into a high against them.

There's other examples of inconsistent collision, inconsistent juggle height, breathing hit-/hurt-boxes, etc.

Players seem to want things more consistent, but it's still around after four games.
That's not called "inconsistency issues". Inconsistency issues mean that if you're going for the exact same scenario and the result will never be the same. If Sub-Zero for example would try to use that string on a ducking Wonder Woman and the result will never be the same, as if sometimes it will hit her and sometimes doesn't, only then it will be a inconsistency issue, but since that scenario is gonna get the same result at all times, that's not the case. Yes only some characters can be hit by that in ducking position, but if the same result is gonna happen all the time depending on the character, there is no inconsistency issue. Get your facts straight.

It's not just females that are the problem with that string. The second hit of the string will sometimes whiff on ANY character while they're standing, even if you're standing right next to them. Happens the most in the corner. Ridiculous.
Does this happen against the same characters all the time? Because then it might be the hurtbox of the opponent rather then the string itself.

Sub has been playable for 3 weeks. We havent seen him in a tourney yet. Let it play out some more
This. All of the complainers need to wait and give Sub-Zero more time. One string that can't work in one particular scenario isn't gonna kill that character. Use that in juggle combos, that way you wouldn't have to worry about the opponent blocking low or standing just a bit far away. I got a few of those myself, you can easily find them.
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
Premium Supporter
Nice way to make up for us waiting for fixes would be to make normal slide a hkd like the mb is, just sayin... :DOGE
 

G11OST

Noob
Keep reading below.



That's not called "inconsistency issues". Inconsistency issues mean that if you're going for the exact same scenario and the result will never be the same. If Sub-Zero for example would try to use that string on a ducking Wonder Woman and the result will never be the same, as if sometimes it will hit her and sometimes doesn't, only then it will be a inconsistency issue, but since that scenario is gonna get the same result at all times, that's not the case. Yes only some characters can be hit by that in ducking position, but if the same result is gonna happen all the time depending on the character, there is no inconsistency issue. Get your facts straight.



Does this happen against the same characters all the time? Because then it might be the hurtbox of the opponent rather then the string itself.



This. All of the complainers need to wait and give Sub-Zero more time. One string that can't work in one particular scenario isn't gonna kill that character. Use that in juggle combos, that way you wouldn't have to worry about the opponent blocking low or standing just a bit far away. I got a few of those myself, you can easily find them.

In general mids should not be low profiled by blocking low. If anything the only thing that should low profile mids are sweeps or other buttons that share the same hurtbox properties. NRS games have 4 different type of buttons. Low, mid, high, and overhead. Lows connect on standing or ducking opponents and need to be blocked low. Mids connect on standing or ducking opponents and can be blocked either way. Highs only connect on standing opponents and will wiff* on duck. Overheads connect on standing or ducking opponents and need to be blocked standing.

So what would u classify 3,3 as? Is there a fifth type of button that changes properties? What's your reasoning behind why this string and many other buttons in this game do not follow the rules that NRS themselves design their games around?
 

kcd117

Noob
If they say the move was designed to be a mid that whiffs on standing and ducking opponents bc it is supposed to be used on a juggle even tho it is still inferior to b23 in that situation then it was just poorly designed. Still can't find a real purpose for that string the way it currently is.
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
@Roy Arkon

"Inconsistent" is not a matter of fact. It's semantics. The way you set it up with Wonder Woman is consistent in that vacuum.

But if I set it up that a "mid" attack is defined as one that will contact a crouching opponent (which is the definition) but that property varies from character to character in the game....

That's absolutely inconsistent. It's an inconsistent mid. That or it's mislabeled.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
In general mids should not be low profiled by blocking low. If anything the only thing that should low profile mids are sweeps or other buttons that share the same hurtbox properties. NRS games have 4 different type of buttons. Low, mid, high, and overhead. Lows connect on standing or ducking opponents and need to be blocked low. Mids connect on standing or ducking opponents and can be blocked either way. Highs only connect on standing opponents and will wiff* on duck. Overheads connect on standing or ducking opponents and need to be blocked standing.

So what would u classify 3,3 as? Is there a fifth type of button that changes properties? What's your reasoning behind why this string and many other buttons in this game do not follow the rules that NRS themselves design their games around?
You forget that there are hitboxes and hurtboxes, back in MKX, the female characters had smaller hurtboxes due to their size, which does make sense considering the persepctive of the real world, so if Sub-Zero can't hit one just ONE hit of just ONE string on a ducking character because the hitbox of that character is too small, that's not a game breaking issue, as hitbox and hurtbox work as it should be.

People complained in MKX that Reptile's EX Acid Puddle doesn't damage the opponent they lay in it or if Reptile hanging them over that with his F21+Grab string, @G4S J360 explained that the reason it doesn't work like that is because that the hurtbox of the opponent aren't active while they lay in Reptile's EX Puddle (they do however activated when Erron Black did his Command throw and got them right on the Caltrops) and the hitbox of the smoke from the EX Puddle aren't high enough to damage the opponent during the chocking of the F21+Grab string. So all of that worked as it should've be.

So in IJ2, Sub-Zero has a string that is technically a mid--mid, but because the hurtboxes of some ducking characters are too low, they can avoid it by ducking. So there is nothing to fix here because the string work as it should be. You need to take the hitboxes and hurtboxes of the characters into account as well, as the frame data alone, like it has been proven over and over in NRS, isn't the be all, end all. Of course they can change the hitbox of the of the 2nd hit so it will hit all ducking characters, but even if they don't, why would you make so much noise about ONE hit of just ONE hit, while like I said before, you could use them in, well, juggle combos? I mean, Sub-Zero command grab has been discovered to be in good use only in juggle combos or as a combo ender due to it's properties of the that very same frame data. If that can happen for the Command grab, it can happen to that 3,3 string as well.

You still have B2,33, you still have F2,2, and judging by the guide vids and match vids I've seen thus far, on the neutral, you would use the F2,2 string most of the time anyway, including in regards to that pressure strategy that @Tom Brady showed.

There is no need to cry about one string, that's not what's gonna kill a character.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
@Roy Arkon

"Inconsistent" is not a matter of fact. It's semantics. The way you set it up with Wonder Woman is consistent in that vacuum.

But if I set it up that a "mid" attack is defined as one that will contact a crouching opponent (which is the definition) but that property varies from character to character in the game....

That's absolutely inconsistent. It's an inconsistent mid. That or it's mislabeled.
It is a matter of fact. If it is change from character to character but the result in each particular character is always the same, that's not an inconsistency issue. That's like having a character that has a very good setup that only works on certain characters but not all of them.

And like I said to @G11OST, it is even less of an inconsistency issue because the hitbox and the hurtbox of both that string and that opponent work as it should be, and you must take that into account as well.

The frame data isn't the be all, end all. And top of that, you guys really need to make so much noise on just one string.
 
You forget that there are hitboxes and hurtboxes, back in MKX, the female characters had smaller hurtboxes due to their size, which does make sense considering the persepctive of the real world, so if Sub-Zero can't hit one just ONE hit of just ONE string on a ducking character because the hitbox of that character is too small, that's not a game breaking issue, as hitbox and hurtbox work as it should be.

People complained in MKX that Reptile's EX Acid Puddle doesn't damage the opponent they lay in it or if Reptile hanging them over that with his F21+Grab string, @G4S J360 explained that the reason it doesn't work like that is because that the hurtbox of the opponent aren't active while they lay in Reptile's EX Puddle (they do however activated when Erron Black did his Command throw and got them right on the Caltrops) and the hitbox of the smoke from the EX Puddle aren't high enough to damage the opponent during the chocking of the F21+Grab string. So all of that worked as it should've be.

So in IJ2, Sub-Zero has a string that is technically a mid--mid, but because the hurtboxes of some ducking characters are too low, they can avoid it by ducking. So there is nothing to fix here because the string work as it should be. You need to take the hitboxes and hurtboxes of the characters into account as well, as the frame data alone, like it has been proven over and over in NRS, isn't the be all, end all. Of course they can change the hitbox of the of the 2nd hit so it will hit all ducking characters, but even if they don't, why would you make so much noise about ONE hit of just ONE hit, while like I said before, you could use them in, well, juggle combos? I mean, Sub-Zero command grab has been discovered to be in good use only in juggle combos or as a combo ender due to it's properties of the that very same frame data. If that can happen for the Command grab, it can happen to that 3,3 string as well.

You still have B2,33, you still have F2,2, and judging by the guide vids and match vids I've seen thus far, on the neutral, you would use the F2,2 string most of the time anyway, including in regards to that pressure strategy that @Tom Brady showed.

There is no need to cry about one string, that's not what's gonna kill a character.
By definition a mid can't whiff on a crouching character. That's literally what making it a mid means. If the hurtboxes are causing a mid to whiff when it's in range (ever) shit is fucked, dogs and cats living together, it's anarchy. That being said just don't call it a mid.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
By definition a mid can't whiff on a crouching character. That's literally what making it a mid means. If the hurtboxes are causing a mid to whiff when it's in range (ever) shit is fucked, dogs and cats living together, it's anarchy. That being said just don't call it a mid.
Ok so they can correct the frame data and say it's a high or like I said before, increase the hitbox of the 2nd hit of the string. Either way, it works as it should be in terms of the hitbox and hurtbox. Yes, they change it, but it works is is supposed to.