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Patch reaction

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Only on TYM where someone manages to justify crouching under mids, smh.

Here's the thing, unless a move is specifically meant to low profile, like slide, or Mileena's ball roll, it shouldn't. Especially crouching states, which is what characters are in about 50% of the match.

Sub's 33 is almost unusable as of now. It has nothing to offer. Plus 1 on hit, links only into slide, and whiffs on half the cast crouching. S3 is good after ex shatter, but then ex shatter has its own set of issues. This obviously needs a fix. No amount of "deal with the hurtboxes" explanation is going to change the fact.

The pushback issue needs to go as well. It makes no sense for sub to lose his main tool against half the cast because... well no reason, again. All his issues have no reasoning behind them.

Please, can we stop ignoring or justifying sub's issues? I feel like this only happens with sub and no one else in this forum.

*By the way, Yes i play sub, I've played him and labbed him a lot. Since MKX. This is coming from a true main who is tired of all the excuse makers*
Never said it's 100% not an issue, they can change the hitbox and that's it. All I wanted to say is that we don't need to make too much noise out of the 33 string, that's it. Also regarding the Ice Burst strategy, maybe there is another strategy that we don't know about.

Not coming as an excuse maker or anything, I'm just trying to put more constructive statements, and tbh I'm tired of people on TYM making so much noise regarding any character without checking things out

Only on TYM you would see people making so much noise about one string.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Sub Zero is trash and should be dropped until the next patch. I've played against a lot of Subs in private and ranked matches and not once have I really felt threatened by his move set. Any time I would get hit, it would be because of my own dumb mistakes.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
The only way you are gonna make me drop Sub-Zero as my go-to main for IJ2 is if NRS would put another character that I like overall more, and considering that Reptile is not coming to this game and you can already make Sub-Zero look like Reptile in IJ2, that's not very likely.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
The only way you are gonna make me drop Sub-Zero as my go-to main for IJ2 is if NRS would put another character that I like overall more, and considering that Reptile is not coming to this game and you can already make Sub-Zero look like Reptile in IJ2, that's not very likely.
There's, also, a Reptile cameo. It's Flash. Their moves are so similar.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
There's, also, a Reptile cameo. It's Flash. Their moves are so similar.
I mained Reptile in both MK9 and MKX because of his versatility and his ability to both Zone and Rush, the Nimble Basilisk special is an MKX only thing, and Flash is a Rushdown only character. Not to mention that I main Noxious Reptile in MKX. And in case you were wondering, Noxious is just as strong as Nimble, and I mained Noxious Reptile since day one.

Did I just read five pages of someone saying mid whiffing on crouching char is working as intended? Bro u should come play paper rock scissors with me for 1000 dollars a game. Just let it be known that sometimes rock beats paper and scissors beats rock.
I said the hurtbox/hitbox work as intended, not that the mid-mid string is working as intended by it's attack type alone. 5 pages and you didn't understand that....
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Never said it's 100% not an issue, they can change the hitbox and that's it. All I wanted to say is that we don't need to make too much noise out of the 33 string, that's it. Also regarding the Ice Burst strategy, maybe there is another strategy that we don't know about.

Not coming as an excuse maker or anything, I'm just trying to put more constructive statements, and tbh I'm tired of people on TYM making so much noise regarding any character without checking things out

Only on TYM you would see people making so much noise about one string.
Here's the deal Roy. I get where you're coming from, and I understand your optimism. But we've played this character for about 3+ weeks. We've labbed and labbed, and it seems the only consistent way to play sub is to use ex shatter and plus frames, and the clone as a great side tool and a corner trapper.

His air hammer ex pushes you even farther back to be of any use, his ex clone is laughable compared to the version of Mkx. The whole "maybe there's a new strategy thing" is a good way of thinking, but remember that this is a character that is basically from Mkx, with his tools changed IMO for the worse, replaced with mediocre counterparts. We've already covered a lot of ground with sub, and implementing his new tools doesn't take as long as learning a brand new character.

So while we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, why not fix what we already know are issues? You say ex shatter might be fine, because there could be another strategy. Well then, why should that be an excuse to leave it how it is, i.e. Useless against half the cast.

Same with 33.

EDIT- By the way, I have a simple counter to your hurtbox argument. If hit and hurt boxes are always working as intended, then why do NRS feel the need to patch them from time to time in their games? Because they aren't. There will always be these types of issues, and there will always be a plea to fix them. A balanced game needs Mids to work on crouching characters, Period. No ifs ands or buts
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Here's the deal Roy. I get where you're coming from, and I understand your optimism. But we've played this character for about 3+ weeks. We've labbed and labbed, and it seems the only consistent way to play sub is to use ex shatter and plus frames, and the clone as a great side tool and a corner trapper.

His air hammer ex pushes you even farther back to be of any use, his ex clone is laughable compared to the version of Mkx. The whole "maybe there's a new strategy thing" is a good way of thinking, but remember that this is a character that is basically from Mkx, with his tools changed IMO for the worse, replaced with mediocre counterparts. We've already covered a lot of ground with sub, and implementing his new tools doesn't take as long as learning a brand new character.

So while we're scraping the bottom of the barrel, why not fix what we already know are issues? You say ex shatter might be fine, because there could be another strategy. Well then, why should that be an excuse to leave it how it is, i.e. Useless against half the cast.

Same with 33.

EDIT- By the way, I have a simple counter to your hurtbox argument. If hit and hurt boxes are always working as intended, then why do NRS feel the need to patch them from time to time in their games? Because they aren't. There will always be these types of issues, and there will always be a plea to fix them. A balanced game needs Mids to work on crouching characters, Period. No ifs ands or buts
Yes we played him for 3 weeks, Tom already found one strategy, and this Sub-Zero is MKX Sub-Zero but with some tweaks to him, but new strategies can be discovered over time. I'm not saying there is no chance I'm wrong, but making so much noise about one string and one strategy isn't what's gonna make the character better. We all can still find more strategies that can work for Sub in IJ2. Also, I've never said that NRS shouldn't increase the hitbox of 3,3 so it can hit all crouching characters or not to change MB Ice Burst on block to have no pushblock for anyone. All I said is that we don't need to make so much noise and we should try to find other strategies.

And one more thing regarding the hitbox/hurtbox, all I said was that the the reason that 3,3 work as it is right now it's because that's what the hitbox/hurtbox for this string in comparison to the opponent's character are right now, but of course they can change it. And if they do, fine then.
 
Granted, I didn't read every single post on this thread, but...

Mids are by definition moves that hit both crouching and standing opponents, and can be blocked either way.

If a mid whiffs on a crouching opponent, it means NRS made a mistake somewhere, whether in the hurtbox, hitbox, or labeling.

If NRS made a mistake somewhere, it means they should fix it in a patch.

To anyone saying that some mids are designed to whiff on crouching opponents due to hurtboxes, hurtboxes are designed to affect things like juggles and your opponents aerial heights in NRS games, not change the labels of moves when both opponents are grounded.

This just isn't consistent with NRS's own rules they themselves put into the game.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Granted, I didn't read every single post on this thread, but...

Mids are by definition moves that hit both crouching and standing opponents, and can be blocked either way.

If a mid whiffs on a crouching opponent, it means NRS made a mistake somewhere, whether in the hurtbox, hitbox, or labeling.

If NRS made a mistake somewhere, it means they should fix it in a patch.

To anyone saying that some mids are designed to whiff on crouching opponents due to hurtboxes, hurtboxes are designed to affect things like juggles and your opponents aerial heights in NRS games, not change the labels of moves when both opponents are grounded.

This just isn't consistent with NRS's own rules they themselves put into the game.
Well you do got a point right there regarding the hurtboxes, we will see what happens next then.
 

Eric The Scruffy

Premium
Premium Supporter
Marvel 2 didn't get support and it was played for years, stop.

It's the community's fault

Capcom doesn't have a boss, really? you guys can't be that naive!
People need to stop talking about how people played marvel 2, because its a lie.

People played Marvel 2 for years without support because, as a genre, fighting games were *DEAD*.
If you were a fighting game fan in the competitive marvel 2 period there were very very few options to choose from, and more importantly the only people playing were the super hardcore anyway. Tournaments with a small fraction of the entrants we have today were considered insanely successful.


That era is *GONE*. There are a wealth of options with support from developers to choose from and a game would be considered dead and buried if it was getting the entry numbers marvel 2 was pulling in at the height of its tournament popularity.

EDIT: Here's some numbers for you. Evolution 2004 had 700 entrants....counting *ALL GAMES BEING RUN*.
 
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Shaka

Tier Whore.
People need to stop talking about how people played marvel 2, because its a lie.

People played Marvel 2 for years without support because, as a genre, fighting games were *DEAD*.
If you were a fighting game fan in the competitive marvel 2 period there were very very few options to choose from, and more importantly the only people playing were the super hardcore anyway. Tournaments with a small fraction of the entrants we have today were considered insanely successful.


That era is *GONE*. There are a wealth of options with support from developers to choose from and a game would be considered dead and buried if it was getting the entry numbers marvel 2 was pulling in at the height of its tournament popularity.

EDIT: Here's some numbers for you. Evolution 2004 had 700 entrants....counting *ALL GAMES BEING RUN*.
Idk where you went with this but is that a reason to drop a game for a newer one?
If there are options why aren't we playing more than one game at a time?
 

Eric The Scruffy

Premium
Premium Supporter
Idk where you went with this but is that a reason to drop a game for a newer one? i there's options why aren't we playing more than one game at a time?
A lot of us *do* play more than one game at a time, just not exclusively NRS titles and there's no reason they have to be. There's new options every week now, so why keep playing a game that has no long term support? Marvel 3 has proven capcom players to be equally fickle.

Most competitive players I know in this community would play MK9 still if they could, but the lack of developer support has led to less and less tournament support as people realized the meta was locked in place.

The superhardcore will always be there...but they alone are no longer enough to sustain a tournament lifecycle.