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Patch reaction

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Here we see condescending wall of text #23746 about J. Edgar Whoever, resident knowbetter.
Lost me when you assumed that I play Injustice.
Go home, son.
Yes I didn't know that you're not playing IJ1, but what I said is true for all NRS games, and neither what I said to you in particular or what you've quoted from me was condescending.

That was entertaining. It was Roy and his essay vs the world up in here.
I'm happy that someone enjoyed by that. I just wanted to clear some things up.
 

GLoRToR

You're my fan if you can't stop shitposting me.
Yes I didn't know that you're not playing IJ1, but what I said is true for all NRS games, and neither what I said to you in particular or what you've quoted from me was condescending.
Yes it was. You don't realise so it's time somebody came around and told you that you have no idea what you're talking about.
 

KH_Seraph

ҜømbÄŦ Ħøu&Ŧøπ
I consider the hitbox/hurtbox of a character to be a part of their overall kit. It wouldn't make sense for Swamp Thing to have the same hurtbox as catwoman. It wouldn't make sense for Yoda to have the same hurtbox as Darth Vader.

Some characters have animations and properties that make them move a certain way in reaction to whatever it is they're up against. It's part of their kit. Shrug.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Yes it was. You don't realise so it's time somebody came around and told you that you have no idea what you're talking about.
When I said "we need to", I meant all of us, including myself. How can I be condescending to you or anyone else if I put myself in the same category as you and the others?

And you say I don't know what I'm talking about.
 

G11OST

Noob
I consider the hitbox/hurtbox of a character to be a part of their overall kit. It wouldn't make sense for Swamp Thing to have the same hurtbox as catwoman. It wouldn't make sense for Yoda to have the same hurtbox as Darth Vader.

Some characters have animations and properties that make them move a certain way in reaction to whatever it is they're up against. It's part of their kit. Shrug.
I agree

But what about when they are just blocking? Should a mid whiff on a crouching block by itself?

Depending on your answer will change if the hitbox of my upcoming projectile will whiff your head or not.
 

Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
I won't go into the 33 string, not opening that up again. But take that, and the fact that he can't consistently utilize the plus frames off his mb db1, and you'll see Sub is a character with design flaws. Great, let's spend a bar of meter to put ourselves at +3, oh wait, they got pushed back to midscreen and we can't even reach them. I've never seen anything so silly in a fighting game. You spend meter at the end of a blockstring to be plus and continue to apply pressure, not to be pushed out of range of your normals and go back to neutral. The clone is not the cornerstone of his gameplan like it was in MKX (in addition to his 50/50s). If he's going to be viable, these inconsistencies need to be addressed.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I won't go into the 33 string, not opening that up again. But take that, and the fact that he can't consistently utilize the plus frames off his mb db1, and you'll see Sub is a character with design flaws. Great, let's spend a bar of meter to put ourselves at +3, oh wait, they got pushed back to midscreen and we can't even reach them. I've never seen anything so silly in a fighting game. You spend meter at the end of a blockstring to be plus and continue to apply pressure, not to be pushed out of range of your normals and go back to neutral. The clone is not the cornerstone of his gameplan like it was in MKX (in addition to his 50/50s). If he's going to be viable, these inconsistencies need to be addressed.
Tom Brady said that this strategy can be still very powerful against some characters as not all characters get pushed after the MB Ice Burst, so that gameplan isn't completely useless. On Paper, yes it does not make sense that you would spend a bar just to be pushed out of your opponent's range so you won't be able to keep that pressure if you would've want to, but since the Sub is still only a couple of weeks out, maybe there is still some tech or another strategy that we don't know about that just might be up there to use against these characters. Also this thing of being pushed against some characters isn't exclusive to Sub-Zero, Poison Ivy also has that thing that according to Vak Phoenix, every time that Ivy goes to her MB Datura Hammer, all of the floating characters except Supergirl don't get pushed at all if they block it, which means they can't punish Ivy after MB Datura Hammer.
 
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Cobainevermind87

Mid-match beer sipper
Tom Brady said that this strategy can be still very powerful against some characters as not all characters get pushed after the MB Ice Burst, so that gameplan isn't completely useless. On Paper, yes it does not make sense that you would spend a bar just to be pushed out of your opponent's range so you won't be able to keep that pressure if you would've want to, but since the Sub is still only a couple of weeks out, maybe there is still some tech or another strategy that we don't know about that just might be up there to use against these characters.
So you don't think it's flawed that some characters have a "get out of jail free" card against plus frames while others don't?
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
So you don't think it's flawed that some characters have a "get out of jail free" card against plus frames while others don't?
I never said it is indeed not flawed, I'm only speculating ATM. I start that maybe it was indeed intentional from the get go, but of course we need to see what happens once the full patch note list comes out.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
I never said it is indeed not flawed, I'm only speculating ATM. I start that maybe it was indeed intentional from the get go, but of course we need to see what happens once the full patch note list comes out.
If it was intentional for the get go, then I'm sorry, but...

Arc System Works > Capcom > NRS

Learn from the masters, who are the ASW.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
If it was intentional for the get go, then I'm sorry, but...

Arc System Works > Capcom > NRS

Learn from the masters, who are the ASW.
You might not like some of the stuff NRS are doing but doesn't mean it isn't good or not legit.

TBH, it is more like this:

NRS/WB > ASW > Capcom.

NRS do more with their games then any other company does, both for the casuals and competitive scene, overall. ASW are indeed excellent, but not as good as NRS, and Capcom, in the last few years, have lost their age with so many mistakes. No company is perfect though, and NRS can do mistakes, but WB and NRS, as well as ASW, don't do as many mistakes as Capcom. NRS are the true masters of fighting games.
 
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Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
You might not like some of the stuff NRS are doing but doesn't mean it isn't good.

TBH, it is more like this:

NRS/WB > ASW > Capcom.

NRS do more with their games then any other company does, both for the casuals and competitive scene, overall. ASW are indeed excellent, but not as good as NRS, and Capcom, in the last few years, have lost their age with so many mistakes.
Sorry, but...

NRS with Midway created only MK games, but failed to fix their glitches at that time. Some games didn't go well not because of low sells, but, also, because of the many bugs they have had at that time. Before PS3 no creator could bring the patches and the fixes. With WB, things got worse, and we all know the story so far. They kept the story in Injustice as well.

Arc System Works by herself created 3 games, and those are Dragonball Fighter Z, Blazblue and Guilty Gears (I happen to play the latter one). As far as I heard from my buddies, they're very good with those games, and know how to create and fix anything.

Capcom is slightly better than WB, but they don't know shit about fighting games. They just invest their money to the SF and Tekken games. WB is focused solely for the money, which worsens the games (we know the story since Batman Arkham Asylum).

Unless NRS learn to fix their own mistakes and bugs, I don't know what will happen in the future games. They need to learn to stop the trolling and seriously fix everything. This is why most people, including me, dropped the games.

What @ismael4790 showed a while ago with the bugs from FistiCuffs is proof of the mistakes NRS made, and all NRS needed to do to cover their own mistakes was to reason their lack of experience with whatever excuse they can think off.

Some old people know what will I mean with the following. TG Raiden froze the moment he touched UB Sub Zero's Parry, yet he didn't when he touched IK? @16 Bit said that, "The Thunder God, Lord Raiden, is a living lightning and those lightnings are his body extensions."

I have a very good memory and I remember what everyone would say to contradict with his "logic".
 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
@Roy Arkon take a look for yourself, this is the shit that ppl try to pass as "intended". I see the angle u're getting at in the thread it's just ppl in the SZ forums are kinda fed up with being told that their shit is working the right way when it isn't, that's prolly why u're seeing so much hostility over a whiffing string discussion.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
@Roy Arkon take a look for yourself, this is the shit that ppl try to pass as "intended". I see the angle u're getting at in the thread it's just ppl in the SZ forums are kinda fed up with being told that their shit is working the right way when it isn't, that's prolly why u're seeing so much hostility over a whiffing string discussion.
Add this video I made, and you know what do I mean.

 

RVB

twitch.tv/rvblacktail
In the grand scheme of things the bugs discussed arent major but the reason why ppl are so eager to see fixes is that they dont wanna spend 3 more months till the next patch with SZ in the same state as right now. Imo thats understandable, sz balance changes can come at a later date when ppl have had enough time to delve in the character properly.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Just rename the title of the Tread as:
"Roy Arkon the almighty player; knows more about game mechanics and intended situations than a big group of NRS players":DOGE.
There you go.:):):)
Yeah, keep making stuff up. Never said I'm smarter then anyone, I'm just not as pessimistic as other people.

@Roy Arkon take a look for yourself, this is the shit that ppl try to pass as "intended". I see the angle u're getting at in the thread it's just ppl in the SZ forums are kinda fed up with being told that their shit is working the right way when it isn't, that's prolly why u're seeing so much hostility over a whiffing string discussion.
I get what are you saying, and that particular thing was indeed a true bug and it should've been fixed and it was fixed, and I get the that people don't wanna see bugs. But the thing is that this thing with the hitboxes isn't a bug because while it does go against the type of the attack, the hitbox/hurtboxes work as it should be, so it can't be a bug, and as for the pushback on block, if it happens to more then one character (both Sub and Ivy), there is still a chance it is a indeed a bug, but it also might be intentional, especially if can kinda indicate which characters get the pushback or not. But this thing with the Klone was indeed a true a bug as no move should go through the Klone unless it has armor. Same thing with the Ice Parry. And keep in mind I'm much more of an MK fan then IJ fan.

Sorry, but...

NRS with Midway created only MK games, but failed to fix their glitches at that time. Some games didn't go well not because of low sells, but, also, because of the many bugs they have had at that time. Before PS3 no creator could bring the patches and the fixes. With WB, things got worse, and we all know the story so far. They kept the story in Injustice as well.

Arc System Works by herself created 3 games, and those are Dragonball Fighter Z, Blazblue and Guilty Gears (I happen to play the latter one). As far as I heard from my buddies, they're very good with those games, and know how to create and fix anything.

Capcom is slightly better than WB, but they don't know shit about fighting games. They just invest their money to the SF and Tekken games. WB is focused solely for the money, which worsens the games (we know the story since Batman Arkham Asylum).

Unless NRS learn to fix their own mistakes and bugs, I don't know what will happen in the future games. They need to learn to stop the trolling and seriously fix everything. This is why most people, including me, dropped the games.

What @ismael4790 showed a while ago with the bugs from FistiCuffs is proof of the mistakes NRS made, and all NRS needed to do to cover their own mistakes was to reason their lack of experience with whatever excuse they can think off.

Some old people know what will I mean with the following. TG Raiden froze the moment he touched UB Sub Zero's Parry, yet he didn't when he touched IK? @16 Bit said that, "The Thunder God, Lord Raiden, is a living lightning and those lightnings are his body extensions."

I have a very good memory and I remember what everyone would say to contradict with his "logic".
Once again, there is no company that is perfect, but NRS are much better then what you describe.

The old MK games got a huge sales except maybe SF, and while the old games had bugs, the old SF games weren't bug free either, and even the newer SF games like SF4 had bugs that Ono and his team needed to patch.

Also, the Capcom bosses, just like WB, are all about the money, that is why they did a lot of mistakes just in try to get the easy dollar, and now Esports is their only true income, and Ono and his team are forced to do what the Capcom bosses tell them to do. Unlike the Capcom bosses, however, WB, despite their desire for money and their fair share of mistakes like letting HVS work on the PC port of MKX just so they can get all the ports of MKX at once, at least they know that they can't cater just to Esports and they go with NRS and Ed Boon to make games that will be good for everyone, both casuals and serious players, while they still invest huge amounts of money for tournaments just like Capcom's bosses.

ASW also had to suffer due to the publishers, as Capcom themselves decided to not make Super SFV (at least not for now), while ASW are forced to keep making new iterations of GGXRD despite NRS doing backward compatible complete editions since MK9, and unlike NRS games, ASW actually published their own games in Japan, unlike in the case of WB being the publishers of NRS games, making ASW partly responsible for that. Hopefully Namco who are the publishers of Dragon Ball Fighter Z won't make any stupid mistakes with that game.

That is why a lot of people didn't buy SF5 and were also very angry with GGXRD Revelator. Of course some people can drop any game for any reason, but even with the stuff that you and some others don't like, there were still tons of players who didn't let these stuff bother them and continued to play, while for SFV, because of that stupid stuff that Capcom bosses did, didn't buy SF5 AT ALL.

Every game is gonna have bugs, it's inevitable, but NRS/WB make better decisions overall and they do fix their problems in their games. If Capcom are gonna still make these stupid mistakes they do, I won't be surprised if they would go bankrupt. But Mortal Kombat games, and also Injustice games, are in an extremely good place right now, one or two things that only might look as bugs, and even a couple of some true bugs, aren't what's gonna kill a game, unlike having a fighting game without an arcade mode. And MVCI, with that roster they have right now, whatever it's because of Capcom, Marvel, or both, I won't be surprised if not that many players would buy that game to make it into tournies and support the it's scene.
 
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GLoRToR

You're my fan if you can't stop shitposting me.
When I said "we need to", I meant all of us, including myself. How can I be condescending to you or anyone else if I put myself in the same category as you and the others?

And you say I don't know what I'm talking about.
Ignorance is not an excuse. Figure out how you're being condescending and stop it.
 

hkriderz

Lin Kuei Scum, yellow robot enthusiast
Only on TYM where someone manages to justify crouching under mids, smh.

Here's the thing, unless a move is specifically meant to low profile, like slide, or Mileena's ball roll, it shouldn't. Especially crouching states, which is what characters are in about 50% of the match.

Sub's 33 is almost unusable as of now. It has nothing to offer. Plus 1 on hit, links only into slide, and whiffs on half the cast crouching. S3 is good after ex shatter, but then ex shatter has its own set of issues. This obviously needs a fix. No amount of "deal with the hurtboxes" explanation is going to change the fact.

The pushback issue needs to go as well. It makes no sense for sub to lose his main tool against half the cast because... well no reason, again. All his issues have no reasoning behind them.

Please, can we stop ignoring or justifying sub's issues? I feel like this only happens with sub and no one else in this forum.

*By the way, Yes i play sub, I've played him and labbed him a lot. Since MKX. This is coming from a true main who is tired of all the excuse makers*