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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v3

ryublaze

Noob
About MMH, I can confirm that you have to block the teleport on reaction then you are able to sword flip punish him easily. If you're already walking back and blocking then it won't work.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
As a Batman main, if you knock me down, feel free to go ham with the guesses/cross-ups.

Do not respect Batman at all on wake-up.
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Zods aren't just going to pop trait in the neutral game. It's usually full screen or after a knockdown.

And yes zod trait outside of setups is a bill.
Which is why zod players do setups after trait.

I don't know who your playing and I don't want to give you the "You just don't know" speech, but it really is something where you have to fight against a quality player to understand how good it is.
I said that as a warning. I myself play Zod and I've played Dave's.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
My Batman experience is primarily Nubcakes with a little King so I'll put what I got

Essentially, it will boil down to not caring about trait. I feel you have a firm lead in every other area, but that's a hell of an equalizer. Luckily there are ways around it.

Basically if he's crouching at mid screen with one on the screen, you know what's coming. Peppering his dash ins with his bats is Bruce 101, and the key is recognizing this and realizing that the onus is on him to open you up. I really don't think his offense is a killer to block, it's mainly just a lot of pressure. Knowing that, there are a few things I do at mid screen to keep him in check:

-If I smell a trait lead in, I down 2. Down 2 will, with practice, go under his shot bat and smack his dash in if he didn't space it right

-If he's going for a cute crossup, smack him out of it. The block stun of a single bat is extremely small, so don't feel jailed by a blocked one. Sword flip or down 2 his ass.

-If he's going for a farther out jump in, sweep or jump back jump in. Both Slades sweep and his samus jump will shrink him up and usually avoid the bat, while the attacks should interrupt his jump in.

-If he uses bat to get a mb batarang blockstring going, let him waste at least two bars and either push block or take the mb batarang explosion. Either option will cause any mid screen pressure to end, which is to your advantage.

-If it's a nut batman that will just jump, sword flip spaced jump 2s and down 2 the crossups. He shouldn't be getting too many unassisted jump ins.

With all of these tactics I feel you can play a game of attrition. You can chip him from about half screen pretty safely, and his approach without bats is pretty whatever. If he's doing son chip, I wouldn't worry about it too much. In his insistence to open you up he will either take a risk or end his pressure, which you can capitalize on in several ways.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
@AVN PTH jonnitti it does not help that since you are a regular at the break, you probably play the best Batman player in the world so (given that this match is already in bat's favor) it is going to be a major uphill battle for you.

My advice probably wont help much against someone of Arma's caliber lol. His mixups are flat out scary and I know they would hit me too lol
I didn't lose to arma this time around. also we never get to play casuals with him cuz hes always playing initial D :(
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Figure i would dump whatever GL stuff i know in here.

You generally want to keep lantern at full screen. at this range, the only thing he really has to compete with your zoning is his rocket, which in the air can be easily reacted to and punished with air guns and on the ground can be ducked by low guns. When lantern approaches you, he takes a lot of chip until he gets into lift range. a lot of lanterns will yolo lift to try to catch you doing this but remember to shoot him in the face if you are out of range to get a combo punish. also, its worth mentioning that lantern has shit for wakeups, so you can do all sorts of bullshit to him after a knockdown. you can really run the setup train on him because all he has on wakeup is lift, which is retarded unsafe and does shit for damage if you armor through it. however, lantern has an extremely hard time with his okizeme options against DS. you can pretty much flip out of all of his setups so he has to respect your wakeup. some of his ji1 setups will beat out flip so you have to be careful with that one but most of his shit after a traited lift you can just flip his ass. if you can get him to respect your wakeups, you pretty much forcing the GL player to second guess himself when going for his main bullshit. the thing you really have to watch out for is the b1 and lift mixup. b1 is one of the most obnoxious normals in the game and a lot of us will want to jump and whiff punish it, but lantern will start trying to lift you when he reads you trying to do that. its important to learn how to dash out of b13 (which i can't do for shit still) because of that. Also, DS is one of the few characters that can't dash out of b13 rockets. if he doesnt have meter, to my knowledge he has no way out of it, which is the best thing lantern has going for him in this match.

i personally thing its 6-4 DS but it can be argued to be 5-5, but at that point it doens't matter, it still comes down to who outplays who. the advantage is very miniscule.
 
How do you guys play the Zod matchup? It seems like low gun shots are only good to counter Zod's rifle shots. Zod can block low gun shots and call his trait for free and zone with lasers/zod balls or do trait mixups. If DS can corner Zod he has a good chance to win but it feels almost un winnable against a high level Zod. I'm still fairly new to DS so it could just be me. @KingHippo @Crathen @GGA Slips @Vagrant @RedRaptor10
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
How do you guys play the Zod matchup? It seems like low gun shots are only good to counter Zod's rifle shots. Zod can block low gun shots and call his trait for free and zone with lasers/zod balls or do trait mixups. If DS can corner Zod he has a good chance to win but it feels almost un winnable against a high level Zod. I'm still fairly new to DS so it could just be me. @KingHippo @Crathen @GGA Slips @Vagrant @RedRaptor10
I played Pig's Zod for a good 50-60 matches the other night and actually managed to win about 10-15. I feel like it's DS's job to close the gap and get something started because Zod does win most projectile trades. Luckily DS is able to stuff all of Zod's wakeups (someone posted a great video, but now I can't seem to find it; basically if you space it right, b2 and b1 can beat Zod Push and Zod Charge). When he calls out trait, it becomes a game of 50/50's, but with the right reads you can actually manage to throw, SF, mb.SP, or f23 Zod to run down his trait. Don't be afraid to counterattack an overzealous Zod who's bullying you while his trait is up. Also remember that Trait Grab is -20, so if you ever block one you better take advantage and get in your full combo punish. Just be careful, though, because if Zod reads that you're about to press a button, he can Trait Grab and full-combo you even if you knock him down first. This happened to me several times, as I would land a j.3 but he would get off the Trait Grab, get up, and get his normal combo off. That's why I only recommend the 7 to 10-frame moves I mentioned previously.
 

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
Ok guys...

How does a Green Lantern/ Doomsday/ Batman match up work?
I'm assuming that GL and doomsday are just unplayable against a lame deathstroke. But if they had to... how would they get in?

(Yolo turbine,slides,venoms don't work)
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Ok guys...

How does a Green Lantern/ Doomsday/ Batman match up work?
I'm assuming that GL and doomsday are just unplayable against a lame deathstroke. But if they had to... how would they get in?

(Yolo turbine,slides,venoms don't work)
You can't really keep anyone out forever. As long as they're patient and accept that they're going to eat some chip getting in, they can close the gap. Doomsday especially can create problems for DS. I think it's more difficult for Lantern to get in, but once he does he can create problems. It's just a matter of getting into that mid to close-range distance and staying there.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Ok guys...

How does a Green Lantern/ Doomsday/ Batman match up work?
I'm assuming that GL and doomsday are just unplayable against a lame deathstroke. But if they had to... how would they get in?

(Yolo turbine,slides,venoms don't work)
i posted before regarding GL like 5 posts up. so you can look at tht but i also want do add that lantern is very prone to DS's setups due to a lack of wakeup options. he has to respect pretty much all of them. after blocking either f23 or f3 he doesn't really have anything solid since his backdash is shittyso he has to respect you. to catchhis backdash you can do j3 or chase him down and force him to guess. a setup i really like against lantern is b1u2 f3 d2 j2 f23 flip. after that you can dash up twice and make a j3 cross up depending on when you press the button. if you get it to cross up it will beat his lift, if it doesnt lift will beat the j3. so basically his options are to wakeup and lift or block the crossup, in which case, the risk/reward is certainly in your favor because he needs to blow meter to convert and you will get more damage than him without blowing meter.
 

The Great One

"I Always d1 Lif-" SHUT UP
i posted before regarding GL like 5 posts up. so you can look at tht but i also want do add that lantern is very prone to DS's setups due to a lack of wakeup options. he has to respect pretty much all of them. after blocking either f23 or f3 he doesn't really have anything solid since his backdash is shittyso he has to respect you. to catchhis backdash you can do j3 or chase him down and force him to guess. a setup i really like against lantern is b1u2 f3 d2 j2 f23 flip. after that you can dash up twice and make a j3 cross up depending on when you press the button. if you get it to cross up it will beat his lift, if it doesnt lift will beat the j3. so basically his options are to wakeup and lift or block the crossup, in which case, the risk/reward is certainly in your favor because he needs to blow meter to convert and you will get more damage than him without blowing meter.
Oh thanks. To be honest it sounds like it'd be better to go Batman or doomsday. Even though those are the two characters I used to play against a Deathstroke at the last tournament I went to and I still got my ass kicked. Desperate Times. Time to learn Bane/Batgirl
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Oh thanks. To be honest it sounds like it'd be better to go Batman or doomsday. Even though those are the two characters I used to play against a Deathstroke at the last tournament I went to and I still got my ass kicked. Desperate Times. Time to learn Bane/Batgirl
i think out of those 4 characters, doomsday handles him the best. i would say its 6-4 doomsday and the rest of them are 5-5s. i could go into detail but im falling asleep ill type more later
 

ZOOM

Noob
@RedRaptor10
I main both Flash and Deathstroke

I believe it's a 5-5, even match up because when ever I play flashes it goes even or I win.
Deathstroke has set ups where me makes all of flashes wake ups whiff
and F23 will keep him in check
when in life lead, B23F3 as a footsie tool or after J3 works very well. Puts them full screen and in line for chip.
Always bait LightningCHarge MB and duck, most flashes are stupid with that.
 

ryublaze

Noob
@RedRaptor10
I main both Flash and Deathstroke

I believe it's a 5-5, even match up because when ever I play flashes it goes even or I win.
Deathstroke has set ups where me makes all of flashes wake ups whiff
and F23 will keep him in check
when in life lead, B23F3 as a footsie tool or after J3 works very well. Puts them full screen and in line for chip.
Always bait LightningCHarge MB and duck, most flashes are stupid with that.
ok i won't dispute that but which flashes are u playing? Most people thinks it's in Flash's favor because he outdamages DS and he punishes gunshots/wake-up spin.
 

Vagrant

Champion
@RedRaptor10
I main both Flash and Deathstroke

I believe it's a 5-5, even match up because when ever I play flashes it goes even or I win.

(This isn't how matchups work)

Deathstroke has set ups where me makes all of flashes wake ups whiff

(The setup itself should be a blatant giveaway that you shouldn't wake up)

and F23 will keep him in check

(...what?)

when in life lead, B23F3 as a footsie tool or after J3 works very well. Puts them full screen and in line for chip.

(The string is b23f2 which is decent in footsies but leaves DS at -4, flash can anti air j3, I don't see why these two tools are what you should be focusing on when you have a life lead)
For anyone not aware btw, Zoom = Muffin Muggers.
 
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xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
@RedRaptor10
I main both Flash and Deathstroke

I believe it's a 5-5, even match up because when ever I play flashes it goes even or I win.
Deathstroke has set ups where me makes all of flashes wake ups whiff
and F23 will keep him in check
when in life lead, B23F3 as a footsie tool or after J3 works very well. Puts them full screen and in line for chip.
Always bait LightningCHarge MB and duck, most flashes are stupid with that.
inb4 m2dave calls you a fool.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Oh thanks. To be honest it sounds like it'd be better to go Batman or doomsday. Even though those are the two characters I used to play against a Deathstroke at the last tournament I went to and I still got my ass kicked. Desperate Times. Time to learn Bane/Batgirl
okay so now that im not about to fall asleep ill give my thoughts on those characters.

ill start with Batman, lately ive been on a long losing streak to this character. the last 3 batman players i played in tournament (@AK Reno_Racks, @Showtime and herkuhles), I have lost to. however, I have not conceded that this is a losing matchup, i find it to be really close, maybe slight advantage to batman, but in the end it comes down to who outplays who. first, you should take note that batman has a severe lack of wakeup options, so he is very prone to a lot of DS's setups. this is the best thing DS has going for him in this matchup. however, batman does have an easy time getting in with bats unless you decide to blow meter pushblocking the bats to create distance. its really hard for batman to punish low guns but when he has trait out, he can trade with guns and create distance or jump over them and confirm a grappling hook for a full combo. most of this matchup comes down to how you deal with batman's trait. there are a bunch of ways to do so, push block, be godlike at blocking and just take the mixup and hope for the best or just be really ballsy and try to ignore it and go in. ive tried all 3 of these and have had very little success but other players have had much more than i have.

doomsday is a real asshole. id say that he has a definite advantage in this matchup. his MB venom will go straight through guns, so when he has meter you have to be very careful about that, especially since it grants a knockdown and he can continue his bullshit doomsday pressure. on the bright side, his wakeups are very easy to stuff, other than his DP, which is unsafe. DS deals with the meteor smash just like everyone else does, so if you can react to meteors and dash with any character, DS can do the same shit. when doomsday has trait out, from a distance DS can do MB assault riffle to waste time, but that costs a bar so its not the best option, but it is there, also f23 spin is an option up close that ive heard is very god but havent gotten a chance to test it out myself. my matchup experience against doomsday is very minimal so i might not be the greatest person to ask about this but thats the extent of my knowledge on the match.

bane i can't really comment on because the extent of my matchup knowledge comes from playing @Grr . being completely honest, i have no idea who's favor this match is in. Grr's playstyle is really what is giving me trouble, not the character. hopefully someone else can drop knowledge on this character for us. @GGA Slips how do you deal with bane? you ahve a pretty good record against max.

Batgirl i would say is 5-5. yeah she has her vortex, so if you arent aquaman, you're going to have to guess, but thats really one of the few things she has going for her in this match. the most important thing in this match is that you have a way of dealing with batwheel. on wakeup, you can stuff it a few frames after the startup. if you use d1, if you get the timing right for stuffing cartwheel, if she does wakeup smoke bomb, you can block in time and punish. also from what i heard, you can backdash all the post batwheel mixup options (someone confirm or deny this for me im not sure). also, its worth mentioning that batgirl can't punish low guns on block from up until her jump range, but of course she can teleport if the batgirl player can effectively react to the startup of guns, so its important that you check if you're opponent can effectively react to it. if he/she can't, then you can vary up your low gun timing and they might start teleporting on a bad read. if they are reacting, you should check if they are reacting to the startup of guns or any sort of movement at all, if they are reacting to movement, you should be able to effectively bait out teleports with down jabs or stand 1s. d2 is a very good option in this match, it will anti air most of her jump ins and of course, like every matchup is a great button to kinda just throw out there since its plus. NEVER jump against batgirl because things will get ugly, its ridiculously easy to react to a jump and teleport with batgirl since she can do it when she is in the air. also, batgirl players tend to be very impatient. i find this a great match just to turtle the fuck out of her and wait for the batgirl player to hang themselves. play a generally grounded game and be very minimalistic. just wait for your free damage to come and take it when you can.
 

ZOOM

Noob
ok i won't dispute that but which flashes are u playing? Most people thinks it's in Flash's favor because he outdamages DS and he punishes gunshots/wake-up spin.
Ofcourse flash outdamages him

Are you factoring in ds chip damage?
Meterless damage?
You can make all of flashes wake ups whiff?
Put him full screen off a footsie or whiff punish?
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Ofcourse flash outdamages him

Are you factoring in ds chip damage?
Meterless damage?
You can make all of flashes wake ups whiff?
Put him full screen off a footsie or whiff punish?
this has been discussed several times but since im in the library "studying" im going to make a long winded post.

on the note of chip damage and full screen, this is where DS excels in a lot of matchups, however, it is irrelevant in this one. flash can punish low guns from up to 3/4s distance away. if he decides to blow bar he gets a full combo and if he doesnt, hes right in your face at his optimal range to but you in frame trap land. also, after blocking low guns, he can close a shit ton of distance that will either put him in punish range or frame trap land (usually frame trap land is a better option).

Flash does need meter to do most of his damaging combos but when he doesn't have meter, he has all sorts of obnoxious frame traps off of the regular lightning kick which is +8 billion on hit and will build him meter mad fast. even though this isnt really damaging, the mixup is very hard to block and will always leave him at advantage, so you're best bet is usually to blow meter on pushblocking because there is rarely a time that he is negative. if he doesn't hit confirm the lightning kick, i believe it is negative, but it is safe, so you can do something defensive like backdash or jump out. blowing meter for armor typically isnt a good option for flash because most of his fastest moves are multi hitting.

making flash's wakeups whiff is certainly helpful but it isn't enough to make it favorable. if they whiff in most cases you get a gun punish and if you fuck up the timing hes either going to punish you or move back into frame trap land. im not saying you shouldn't punish whiffed wakeups, take all the free damage you can, but its something that you absolutely cannot fuck up.

regarding the footsie game against flash, its certainly in flashes favor. although you have moves like stand 3 and f3 that have more range than the flash's normals/strings, they dont yield as advantageous scenarios as flash's do. generally, the range you want to fight flash at is around DS f3/flash b2 range. at this range, the only thing he really has that will reach you without him moving is b2. you can react to any sort of movement to try to catch them doing b2 and do a jump back 3 to punish it and if he ends up dashing he will block it. f3 against flash is kinda whatever, his backdash is good enough that it is hard to catch. f23 is another string that isn't really that useful in this match because if he backdashes it, it will completely whiff and the range you need to be in to use it is flash's optimal range where f23 is really one of the few tools you have to compete.

in this matchup in general, you have to be extremely ballsy and willing to play neutral for a really long ass time. what you do have that works in your favor si that your combos bring him really far into the corner, which is really the only spot you have a decisive advantage over the flash because, well, its the corner, welcome to fighting games.
 

ryublaze

Noob
I think @Crathen 's jump 3 ambiguous cross-up setup works better on Flash (b1u2, f3, j2, f23 xx flip) If he wakes up with flying uppercut or lightning charge both will whiff and DS can punish with high guns or MB high guns.

The thing about ending with 23 is that Flash can backdash it (correct me if I'm wrong), but if u read that then u can jump 3 to punis. I also think Flash can backdash F3 on reaction cuz it's 27 frames so he can just sit there and react to whatever u do, but you can F3 dash cancel into whatever if he's gonna sit there (can be punished by wake-ups though). I think there are too many variables with the 23 setup.

On some of the smaller stages though you can just go for your regular BnBs or side switch combos and you'll already have Flash in the corner.

Edit: Actually I think Flash can forward dash the cross-up jump 3.
 
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