For punishing b13 i think the max damage u can get is backdash, slight walk forward 132 j2 323 f23 flip for 33%. What's nice about this is that u can also do the flying ninja vortex off of 132. Or if you want to go for the ambiguous j3 setup then b1u2 f3 d2 j2 f23 flip.
Ok I fully understand now. I didn't know B1 xx Minigun could be interrupted. And I'm assuming blocked B1 xx Lift is out of DS B1 range which is why Flip/ QuickFire is the option?
if you backdash b13, you're at max range for stand 3 to hit. if he does b1 lift and you backdash he is farther away from you because the elbow in b13 moves in forward so you have to use something with more range.
you have to approach this matchup and try to keep him about a character space and a half away from you as much as you can. at that range, he really has nothing he can hit you with other than b2, and honestly, a lot of flash players will just throw that shit out like its cash and not hit confirm b22. you can react to any kind of movement flash does that is forward and isnt walking to punish i and you will still be save regardless if he goes with b22 or a dash which is his other option. fat chance you would catch him dashing in because the recover frames on that are much less than on a whiffed b22 lol. f3, d2 and f23 your go to pokes in close with flash. you can't hand the frame advantage over to flash so easily since hes just going to put you into frame trap, into frame trap, into frame trap until you dont block an overhead. even if you aren't being punished, you let him turn the tide of he match in his favor. i dont like stand 3 as a poking tool in the match for that reason. after making flash block a f3, his backdash will be caught by a j3 so you can discourage him from backdashing after that. in this match, i feel like meter isnt really needed unless you somehow get flash full screen from you and want to chip him with low guns. theres a lot more i can say but im exhausted now so ill give ou more of an analysis later. this matchup gets talked about a lot so there is a ton of information all over the DS forums for it
Thanks for your reply. Flash players love to b22 all day and so far ive found that jumpback 3 if I read it will blow him up. I've heard that a regular lightning charge can be punished with a full combo starting with 323 but I tend to think he's too far away when actually playing the match so I have trouble remembering to try it. Also if I land a frame trap whether it's f3 or f23 I usually dash forward once in anticipation of them backdashing away and still get my 50/50.
the only problem with dashing towards him is he can still pop you out of your dash with d12 for dumb amounts of damage but you can still hit them out of any buttons with b1 or b2. lightning charge can be punished by 323 which is pretty sweet. if he meter burns it, he is at advantage unless you block the 1st hit crouching, then the 2nd hit will whiff even though it is labeled as a mid in the game. in that case you can stand up and 323 punish or go with d2, d2 sacrifices 3% damage while it bring them further into the corner.
nope not enough reach
I think if you read his back dash after a frame trap and immediately dash in he's still in recovery allowing you enough time for a mixup. Flash has decent recovery on his back dash.
By this logic. No one can ever do setups against any player who uses a character with an invincible wake up.
its not because it has mad invuln frames. its because its 7 frames and the hitbox. a lot of characters have wakeups that can be neutral jumped and b13 trait lift dash j3, they just gotta hold that shit.
My point was that the move is unsafe. And instead of a setup he can make the choice to block and be rewarded the same thing as a successful setup would reward him with if he is right.
i mean yeah you dont wake up every time but jus because an option is unsafe doesnt make it a bad option. in the case of sword flip, you have to put the guessing game on him to guess whether or not i will wake up. you can always do things on wakup that beak blocking, like waking up and grabbing or b1/b2
Which is exactly why GLs setup game isn't shut down. which was my original point.
is there a wakeup that you literally cant do shit about? to my knowledge thats the only wakeup in the game i haven't seen be successfully jumped.Which is exactly why GLs setup game isn't shut down. which was my original point.
