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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v3

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Thing is, I can AA fine but I have to do it on read. Since Shazam's jump arc is low I can D2 at the peak of his jump and win. But once the J2 is active there's no beating it. At least for me.
yeah it could just be online being online. i dont play online anymore. pig's online tournament was the first time i played inustice online in like 2 months and i instantly remembered why i stopped doing it lol
 

TKB

Warrior
Hey Raptor, can you please enlighten me as to why Deathstroke goes even with batgirl? Seems to me that she can shut him down completely.. No zoning against her, she has better frame traps and 50/50s, vortex and stronger corner damage.. I kinda feel like she does everything better than him.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Hey Raptor, can you please enlighten me as to why Deathstroke goes even with batgirl? Seems to me that she can shut him down completely.. No zoning against her, she has better frame traps and 50/50s, vortex and stronger corner damage.. I kinda feel like she does everything better than him.
Here's a pretty good analysis from slips


"Not sure what the mu is, at worst it's 4-6 Batgirl because of vortex and her wakeup attacks being really good so its hard to muster momentum on her, but DS has some things going for him in this mu.
-Batgirl doesn't anything to punish low guns at jump distance, so he definitely wins in footsies.
- Batgirl has bad AA. You can pretty much j1 her all day as it beats her d2 clean and faster than all of her jump attacks. (I think her fastest jump attack is 7 frames or something) j3 is good as a proximity jump attack if you can kinda tell j1 will miss.

DS wins the zoning war but you gotta mix up when to shoot and when to go in and either pretend your ready to play footsies and keep shooting, or actually go in and play foostsies. Get too gun happy you'll eat a tele and die.

So all in all I think DS wins everywhere on the screen, but batgirl has the x-factor of random tele's and vortex's. Probably 5-5.

Seems like a very winnable mu, especially if your doing a good job guessing right in the vortex."
 

TKB

Warrior
Thanks for the reply Vagrant. Not gonna lie, my Deathstroke is a rush down whore and I do need to use my guns more.. However I'm usually very hesitant shooting at batgirl because of the teleport. I'll try these suggestions and see how I do.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Thanks for the reply Vagrant. Not gonna lie, my Deathstroke is a rush down whore and I do need to use my guns more.. However I'm usually very hesitant shooting at batgirl because of the teleport. I'll try these suggestions and see how I do.
i think this matchup is best played very turtly. i gnerally dont shoot at batgirl, i just kinda sit there and wait for her to do shit i start shooting when i notice that she gets impatient. i also like to bait teleports with stand jabs and low jabs
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
I hate Batgirl probably a bit more than Shazam. What scares me the most is her 50/50 between jump 2 and Tele. So I'm reluctant to shoot as she just bunny hops from full-screen nor D2. She can do the same with Bat Evade.
 

TKB

Warrior
I hate Batgirl probably a bit more than Shazam. What scares me the most is her 50/50 between jump 2 and Tele. So I'm reluctant to shoot as she just bunny hops from full-screen nor D2. She can do the same with Bat Evade.
Shazam?? Weird, I think Deathstroke runs train on Shazam. I do play him though so that helps me a lot in the matchup. Funny thing is, I used to play batgirl so I know how stupid she is and the games she plays but it feels like Deathstroke struggles to keep up lol.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
So i lost to zod and nightwing tonight. against zod i felt like the thing that really got to me was i didn't know that zod can use the trait grab even if he gets hit. i felt like i was approaching it the right way but im not sure. let me know what you guys think

against nightwing i really hd no idea. i felt like at full screen i was losing as soon as i blocked something. i also had a hard time getting oki against him with his spinny. his air normals won most air to air exchanges. what should i be doing?
 

Flawless Thomas

Apprentice
So i lost to zod and nightwing tonight. against zod i felt like the thing that really got to me was i didn't know that zod can use the trait grab even if he gets hit. i felt like i was approaching it the right way but im not sure. let me know what you guys think

against nightwing i really hd no idea. i felt like at full screen i was losing as soon as i blocked something. i also had a hard time getting oki against him with his spinny. his air normals won most air to air exchanges. what should i be doing?
Not that I'm going to be of much help, but I'll go ahead and throw out my thoughts. I think you used mbF3 too often. Instead, what you could have done is either ran up and started with B1 or B2, or even d1xxswordspin. Up close to mix people up lately I've even been doing B2xx mb swordspin low to get the knock down because most people don't respect it or expect it to begin with. Also, to keep good spacing and get Zod to do things he shouldn't be doing, I jump ALOT in this matchup. Sure that can be your downfall as well, but you have to be smart about it. I don't think you jumped enough. Cross up j3, then start hitting him with f23 if he blocks it. Even cancel that into low gunshots for chip if he's quick to get out of your pressure. Adding to jumping alot, one thing you should do is add VERY low air gunshots to your repertoire. Frequently in this matchup I would jump either forward or backward depending on the range and right before hitting the ground do air gunshots. 7/10 times I catch somebody trying to dash, jump, or at the least get chip out of it but it takes sometime to consistently hit them that low. And then you will be able to jump and do nothing to either close the gap between you and Zod, or jump back and do nothing and mb gunshots if he tries to do something in the small fraction of time it takes for him to realize you're not doing air gunshots. This makes a big difference in the matchup in my opinion and always helps for me. Also, use interacts led as much as possible man. It really evens the playing field out between you and Zod.


In other random matchup advice pertaining to MMH, I find myself getting blown up by his multi hitting b3 mb alot. What people should start implementing into their game more often is burning 2 meters for a wall bounce combo, blowing through his mb b3 with 12xxbounce cancel, j3, j2, 323, 12 sword flip. Getting the life lead against MMH helps a ton, because then you can maximize on his mistakes more often. I think in that matchup, using the 2 bars to get se dammy is worth it.
 

TKB

Warrior
against nightwing i really hd no idea. i felt like at full screen i was losing as soon as i blocked something. i also had a hard time getting oki against him with his spinny. his air normals won most air to air exchanges. what should i be doing?
Do you play on PSN? I run the nightwing-Deathstroke matchup a lot with my buddy, I'm sure he would be happy to help you with the matchup.

One big thing to remember is that nightwing's anti-air is terrible, Deathstroke can jump at him a lot with little concern of being d2'd. I can usually put nightwing in 50/50 town for a huge portion of the match because of this.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Do you play on PSN? I run the nightwing-Deathstroke matchup a lot with my buddy, I'm sure he would be happy to help you with the matchup.

One big thing to remember is that nightwing's anti-air is terrible, Deathstroke can jump at him a lot with little concern of being d2'd. I can usually put nightwing in 50/50 town for a huge portion of the match because of this.
i dont play online. also when i was jumping in against nightwing, the nightwing player would jump back and hit me with j2 or some jump normal. he didnt use any grounded normals to anti air me
 

TKB

Warrior
I really wish there were more people here that played, I want more offline matches :( and usually the only time I get beat out in an air to air by nightwing is if he's in staff and uses neutral j2. Also deathstroke's zoning is pretty effective against nightwing when timed correctly
 

Flawless Thomas

Apprentice
I really wish there were more people here that played, I want more offline matches :( and usually the only time I get beat out in an air to air by nightwing is if he's in staff and uses neutral j2. Also deathstroke's zoning is pretty effective against nightwing when timed correctly
Very true. It's also pretty effective if you're anticipating nightwings air projectiles to dash under and d2 into a combo. In the corner alot against nightwing whenever I get a knock down I dash into the corner to reverse wakeups and neutral jump into a combo or another hkd setup. The neutral jump in can be ambiguous as well, and I find it pretty effective. Also I frequently stuff his wake up flip with a well timed nj2 into 323, 12 mb gunshots to get some good damage and then start zoning for about as long as it takes to have to resort to rushing in.
 
Reactions: TKB

TKB

Warrior
Very true. It's also pretty effective if you're anticipating nightwings air projectiles to dash under and d2 into a combo. In the corner alot against nightwing whenever I get a knock down I dash into the corner to reverse wakeups and neutral jump into a combo or another hkd setup. The neutral jump in can be ambiguous as well, and I find it pretty effective. Also I frequently stuff his wake up flip with a well timed nj2 into 323, 12 mb gunshots to get some good damage and then start zoning for about as long as it takes to have to resort to rushing in.
Yes!! Nightwing is really susceptible in the corner to deathstrokes setups. Just beware the staff spin wakeup and flying Grayson.
 

Flawless Thomas

Apprentice
Yes!! Nightwing is really susceptible in the corner to deathstrokes setups. Just beware the staff spin wakeup and flying Grayson.
Hell yeah dude, those are annoying. Also if it isn't already common knowledge you can buffer a dash between his ground sparks in escrima to quickly close the distance without getting hit out of the air by wingdings. Also, can we d2 flying Grayson?
 

FpS__King

Keep it Free.
Nobody is saying that. This is a Mu chart very similar to WW, another char hailed as "complete". When you're a complete character you simply have the tools to fight off a good deal of the dumb shit, plain and simple. Nobody disagrees that the top cats are really good and have enormously cheap things about them, and in comparison DS cheaper stuff isn't up to par, but being able to fight against it all while not greeting outright destroyed is a huge factor that I would argue only WW could match in comparison, as well as Batman and Superman.

A real top 5 char for this game would have a nice bit of 3-7s, and maybe one or two losing matchups. Pig is one of the only players who keeps it real about his character and has a legit top 5 mu chart. This is exactly what you always describe as "solid", someone who fights a majority of the cast but loses out against some chars. AKA a top ten character, which I've made clear.

The real part that grinds my gears is that you come in here while having only played a very rudimentary version of the character that gets blown up in certain matchups and then cry foul about how average he is. The fact is you are unevolved, while the rest of the DS players have been evolving and changing the way DS plays and we can see the writing on the wall. This character is great, and it is an insane boon to his viability that his toolset is so varied.

So please, for all of our sakes, take your ball and chain and run on back to the Phantom Zone where you belong and leave us to keep pushing the character. We are DONE with having to bow to outdated "authorities" on matchups and tech when you have accomplished absolutely nothing with he character and never will.

Good luck on all your future endeavors and I look forward to the next lbsh podcast, but would you kindly get the fuck outta here unless Zod is being discussed.
Physical depiction of what just happened here. Jesus.

 

TKB

Warrior
Hell yeah dude, those are annoying. Also if it isn't already common knowledge you can buffer a dash between his ground sparks in escrima to quickly close the distance without getting hit out of the air by wingdings. Also, can we d2 flying Grayson?
Yes we can. Actually I think pretty much any character can. It's hard to react to though :( I suck at doing it so I usually just duck so it goes over or block it and eat 5 d1's to my shins
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Okay so the past 2 days ive been compiling information on how DS can deal with lantern b13 nonsense. most of this shit is universal but in here i specifically talk about how deathstroke can do shit lol.

As all of you know, every character can backdash lanter'ns b13 after b1 an the 3 will whiff. when this happens, there is a 15 or 16 frame window where you can punish lantern. stand 3 will punish the elbow.

to check people for backdashing he has b1 minigun and b1 oa rocket. if he does b1 minigun, i have gotten something as slow as i14 to interrupt (stand 3). the move is honestly slow as shit and you have plenty of time to react and push a button. block b1 see lantern wind up, just stand up and 132. if he does oa rocket, you will crouch under the projectile and if he meter burns it, it will meter burn behind you, so you can d2.

if he tries to check you for backdashing with lift, the lift will whiff but he is farther away from you since the elbow of b13 moves him forward, so to punish, you would have to use either sword flip for hard knockdown or ex stand guns for max dammy, i personally find the hard knockdown to be much more useful unless the max dammy will kill.

overall, if you arent backdashing b13, you are letting a lantern player get away with using safe pressure on you all day, and its honestly something really fucking easy to do. i practiced it for like 20 minutes before testing it out and i can get it relatively consistently. best part about it is if you fuck it up, most of the time you will just stand in place and block. pretty sweet right?

@Vagrant
@RedRaptor10
@G4S J360
@GGA Slips
@Crathen
@Enuma Elish
 

Gesture Required Ahead

Get on that hook
Not sure if I understand. Is this an option select? Like

Block B1 , Input backdash:

-If (b1)3: 323 whiff punish before (B1)3 comes out
-If minigun: 132 and it stuffs
-If Oa Rocket: 132 and it whiff punishes, if MB'd: D2 whiff punish
-If lift: QuickFire MB or Sword Flip whiff punish
-If screw-up: blocked B13

?
 

Vagrant

Champion
Okay so the past 2 days ive been compiling information on how DS can deal with lantern b13 nonsense. most of this shit is universal but in here i specifically talk about how deathstroke can do shit lol.

As all of you know, every character can backdash lanter'ns b13 after b1 an the 3 will whiff. when this happens, there is a 15 or 16 frame window where you can punish lantern. stand 3 will punish the elbow.

to check people for backdashing he has b1 minigun and b1 oa rocket. if he does b1 minigun, i have gotten something as slow as i14 to interrupt (stand 3). the move is honestly slow as shit and you have plenty of time to react and push a button. block b1 see lantern wind up, just stand up and 132. if he does oa rocket, you will crouch under the projectile and if he meter burns it, it will meter burn behind you, so you can d2.

if he tries to check you for backdashing with lift, the lift will whiff but he is farther away from you since the elbow of b13 moves him forward, so to punish, you would have to use either sword flip for hard knockdown or ex stand guns for max dammy, i personally find the hard knockdown to be much more useful unless the max dammy will kill.

overall, if you arent backdashing b13, you are letting a lantern player get away with using safe pressure on you all day, and its honestly something really fucking easy to do. i practiced it for like 20 minutes before testing it out and i can get it relatively consistently. best part about it is if you fuck it up, most of the time you will just stand in place and block. pretty sweet right?

@Vagrant
@RedRaptor10
@G4S J360
@GGA Slips
@Crathen
@Enuma Elish
Usually what tommy does if he thinks we're going to backdash i believe is b1 ... b1 lift. But this still obviously adds to the concept that his close up turns into a guessing game that is unsafe for him. (which isn't that good in this game)

I personally have been having some trouble with it. I can obviously do it if I know when B1 is coming but have trouble consistently reacting with a backdash once I see that I've blocked a b1. But I haven't been working on this match much at all except for the free lantern army on XBL ranked so I bet just some additional practice will get me better at it.

And yes I agree against lantern if you block a non close up lift. Use flip for the hard knockdown. Now you can either backdash and zone, which DS does well against green lantern, or you can setup okizeme.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Not sure if I understand. Is this an option select? Like

Block B1 , Input backdash:

-If (b1)3: 323 whiff punish before (B1)3 comes out
-If minigun: 132 and it stuffs
-If Oa Rocket: 132 and it whiff punishes, if MB'd: D2 whiff punish
-If lift: QuickFire MB or Sword Flip whiff punish
-If screw-up: blocked B13

?

its not an option select. it creates an unsafe 50/50 after a blocked b1. of whether you will backdash or not. id say it can just be a mixup between backdash and d2 to make it even more simple. and yeah if you block b1 and mash backdash and down get it you will block standing