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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v2

M2Dave

Zoning Master
That'd mean more Deathstroke talk , i like it.

But i've yet have to play a flash that mopped me up so bad to think it's that bad.It's a shame i can't prove it myself in an offline setting.
You would not prove anything. The match is 7:3 in The Flash's favor.

For the sake of the argument, let us ignore the fact that The Flash can punish any gun from 3/4ths of the screen away. The Flash has superior footsies, knock down options, and damage output, which means that he does everything better than Deathstroke.

What is your counter argument? J.3? Do not be a fool.
 

ryublaze

Noob
Online the MU can seem 4-6 cuz Flash players never try to punish low shots or can't punish them and I think Flash is hard to use online. Idk the MU for sure but I can see how it can be 3-7.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
You would not prove anything. The match is 7:3 in The Flash's favor.

For the sake of the argument, let us ignore the fact that The Flash can punish any gun from 3/4ths of the screen away. The Flash has superior footsies, knock down options, and damage output, which means that he does everything better than Deathstroke.

What is your counter argument? J.3? Do not be a fool.
I can agree on superior grounded normals and damage output , but knockdown options are on par and DS has a better wakeup game than flash at least in this MU the autocorrect is handy vs his ambigous sonic pound setups , Flash can't just RMS in as guns hit him unlike characters with high fireballs basically he still makes Flash dash and block before pushing buttons.

Flash d1d2 has poor reach so he has to be in his face to even make it an option , should he dash in or jump d2 covers both options consistently , jumping 3 is still legit here as Flash has trouble AA it in most spots even with his d2.

If Flash didn't deal stupid damage i'd be confident saying it's 5-5 , but right now i'll still think it's 4-6 .
psn or xbl? :joker:
XBL feel free to hit me up , i barely see any Flash players on XBL i'd be cool with playing that MU.
 
I can agree on superior grounded normals and damage output , but knockdown options are on par and DS has a better wakeup game than flash at least in this MU the autocorrect is handy vs his ambigous sonic pound setups , Flash can't just RMS in as guns hit him unlike characters with high fireballs basically he still makes Flash dash and block before pushing buttons.

Flash d1d2 has poor reach so he has to be in his face to even make it an option , should he dash in or jump d2 covers both options consistently , jumping 3 is still legit here as Flash has trouble AA it in most spots even with his d2.

If Flash didn't deal stupid damage i'd be confident saying it's 5-5 , but right now i'll still think it's 4-6 .


XBL feel free to hit me up , i barely see any Flash players on XBL i'd be cool with playing that MU.
i'm on PSN :(

@SEV
 

SEV

Noob
I can agree on superior grounded normals and damage output , but knockdown options are on par and DS has a better wakeup game than flash at least in this MU the autocorrect is handy vs his ambigous sonic pound setups , Flash can't just RMS in as guns hit him unlike characters with high fireballs basically he still makes Flash dash and block before pushing buttons.

Flash d1d2 has poor reach so he has to be in his face to even make it an option , should he dash in or jump d2 covers both options consistently , jumping 3 is still legit here as Flash has trouble AA it in most spots even with his d2.

If Flash didn't deal stupid damage i'd be confident saying it's 5-5 , but right now i'll still think it's 4-6 .


XBL feel free to hit me up , i barely see any Flash players on XBL i'd be cool with playing that MU.
Yeah this is a MU isn't that bad and although I think it's 6-4 in the current meta, it will probably been seen as a 5-5 once Deathstroke down players learn how to utilize the threat of guns. And I don't think Flash's damage output is as broke as people make it out to be, certainly not enough to tilt the favoring of the MU, at least IMO. Plenty of characters can now match, or be within 3%, or even beat out our most commonly used(and that's due to situational oppotunity) trait combo of 53% with the new MB B/F3 buff for either two bars or one bar with their trait, like Flash but just because ours looks cooler it's broken, and then most of them do better traitless damage and much better meterless damage. But the way to beat Flash is in the footsie game; like you mentioned our D12 has extremely limited range and our fastest true mid is B22 at 16 frames which be avoided easily in the footsie game, which is also out ranged by DS standing 3 as well, I believe. And as I said above, just because you can't safely use guns within the punish range doesn't mean we don't have to respect your ability to use them at any given moment, and LBSH it's the punish range for most zoning anyways and on top of that you have better tools outside of your zoning options than true zoners do too. Excited to see people like Slips prove that this character is not the bill that we've all been sold.
 
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ando1184

Noob
Hi, I just picked up DS a week ago and everything seems ok at the moment. However, I am having such a hard time fighting bat girls and night wings online. Can someone point me out to where this match up info is, or at least give me some tips?
 
Hi, I just picked up DS a week ago and everything seems ok at the moment. However, I am having such a hard time fighting bat girls and night wings online. Can someone point me out to where this match up info is, or at least give me some tips?
Nightwing:
In Escrima stance, NW has 2 lows which I don't see a lot of them use. So block high because his B2 is a really good move.
Don't mindlessly dish out guns or he will Wing-Ding you. Learn to air gun this on reaction.
Wake up flip kick can be stuffed.
Respect any kind of follow-up after a MB ground pound in Staff stance.
Learn to jump Ground pound on reaction.
You can abuse J3 against him when he is in staff stance on his wakeup.
His J2 in staff stance will A2A you so don't jump like an idiot.
You may want to use a Interactable heavy stage against him since he cannot dodge Interactables in Staff stance.
Check him a lot with low shots at a safe distance.
Do not be afraid to regularly push block Staff stance pressure.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
What is the post-blocked slide meta for Deathstroke?

Frost is at -4(or something like that), so I'm wondering how effective d1/f23 is in this situation.

What are the preferred options after a blocked slide in the Deathstroke/Killer Frost match?
 

ryublaze

Noob
What is the post-blocked slide meta for Deathstroke?

Frost is at -4(or something like that), so I'm wondering how effective d1/f23 is in this situation.

What are the preferred options after a blocked slide in the Deathstroke/Killer Frost match?
I would like to know this too...

so far I've experimented with d1 spin, jump 3, and dash 132. I like to mainly do d1 spin since it's safe and i think it beats her parry and d2.

@RunwayMafia
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I can agree on superior grounded normals and damage output , but knockdown options are on par and DS has a better wakeup game than flash at least in this MU the autocorrect is handy vs his ambigous sonic pound setups , Flash can't just RMS in as guns hit him unlike characters with high fireballs basically he still makes Flash dash and block before pushing buttons.

Flash d1d2 has poor reach so he has to be in his face to even make it an option , should he dash in or jump d2 covers both options consistently , jumping 3 is still legit here as Flash has trouble AA it in most spots even with his d2.

If Flash didn't deal stupid damage i'd be confident saying it's 5-5 , but right now i'll still think it's 4-6.
Why would The Flash ever use RMS outside of combos and pressure strings? He can block low gunshots, forward dash once, and punish any non-physical attack that Deathstroke does.

b+2,2 xx RMS is +7 on block and has more range than any of Deathstroke's physical attacks. d+1,2 beats any retaliations aside from a super move, f+2 xx lightning kick is a safe overhead, and b+2,2 catches back dashing. If Deathstroke had anything resembling b+2,2 xx RMS, he would have great footsies.

MB f+3 can beat both sword spin and sword flip. The Flash can also punish sword spin with up head butt when he blocks standing. The Flash does fine against Deathstroke's wake ups.

All of your points are based on stupidity and lack of match up knowledge. I highly doubt that you have ever played a Flash player who is half as good as Harold and Master D.
 
What is the post-blocked slide meta for Deathstroke?

Frost is at -4(or something like that), so I'm wondering how effective d1/f23 is in this situation.

What are the preferred options after a blocked slide in the Deathstroke/Killer Frost match?
Reversal Sword Spin seems to be quite consistent but then she could parry you.
 

macro

Eezeepeezee
Nightwing:
In Escrima stance, NW has 2 lows which I don't see a lot of them use. So block high because his B2 is a really good move.
Don't mindlessly dish out guns or he will Wing-Ding you. Learn to air gun this on reaction.
Wake up flip kick can be stuffed.
Respect any kind of follow-up after a MB ground pound in Staff stance.
Learn to jump Ground pound on reaction.
You can abuse J3 against him when he is in staff stance on his wakeup.
His J2 in staff stance will A2A you so don't jump like an idiot.
You may want to use a Interactable heavy stage against him since he cannot dodge Interactables in Staff stance.
Check him a lot with low shots at a safe distance.
Do not be afraid to regularly push block Staff stance pressure.
It's also good to abuse jump 3 on escirma because it's d2 is bad
and mainly used for dashing up and hitting people out of the air.
But in staff don't jump in on him because like you said
Nightwing is not afriad to A2A you or D2 into EF.
 

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
I would like to know this too...

so far I've experimented with d1 spin, jump 3, and dash 132. I like to mainly do d1 spin since it's safe and i think it beats her parry and d2.

@RunwayMafia
It purely comes down to how the Killer Frost player plays. Let's take me for example, after a blocked slide I tend to either do a parry or a backdash. So, you have to pick up their post slide mannerisms/patterns first and then go from there.

Kf does the parry--you do d1
Kf does back dash--you dash forward or do one of his forward advancing normals/moves
Kf does d1--you neutral jump or F3

Again...since the move is so safe it really comes down to what SHE ends up doing...to be honest.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
the only thing i disagree with people on the flash matchup is that b22 is really that great. its pretty easy to react to offline and you can just jump back and pop him for using it. move is honestly slow as shit. once you an reliably react and punish it, the move isnt as much of an issue. however, i dont think that really makes the matchup much better or worse. the thing that makes this MU hard is that you have to make all the right reads in the neutral knowing that if you're wrong the flash is going to outdamage you significantly and has way more strings that end in plus frames on block. its also worth checking if the flash that you are playign likes delay/dash cancel lightning kick and pop him with 132 while he does that, or at least d1. if you let him get away with that his pressure becomes twice as obnoxious as it is without it. also keep in mind that he is one of the few characters that can punish sword spin with his DP (i think its called lighting upper not sure), so that is not a safe wakeup in this matchup. i still think its 7-3 flash because of how easy it is for him to get in and his punishment vs deathstroke. if he didn't outdamage DS by so much than it would be 6-4 imo.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
the only thing i disagree with people on the flash matchup is that b22 is really that great. its pretty easy to react to offline and you can just jump back and pop him for using it. move is honestly slow as shit. once you an reliably react and punish it, the move isnt as much of an issue.
You cannot react to an attack that has 16 frames of start up. You are making good reads by jumping back and whiff punishing. The Flash player can punish jump back attacks using MB lightning charge (kind of how Killer Frost can slide them) when timed correctly, but Flash can do so easier because charge is faster than slide.
 

ryublaze

Noob
anyone have any info on the BG matchup?
i'm playing this MU now with @Ghostface777o0o lol i think this MU is either 5-5 or 6-4 batgirl favor. Again what I do is crouch feints to bait a teleport then u can sneak in a few low shots. Her wake-ups can be blown up by jump 3 or blocking then punish. d2 to punish her uppercut thingy. 132 to punish teleport. You can low shot under her high projectile and I'm pretty sure you can jump on reaction to her other projectile that makes a sound before she throws it.

Don't take my advice seriously cuz I'm not that good and I don't play many BG players.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
i certainly think batgirl is 6-4 in her favor. her wakeups aren't really that much to be worried about. you can do a million different things to bait out smokebomb because most likely people are just reacting to an sort of movement. however, you have to play incredibly patiently. also you have to react to her loading up bolas because those are +8 billion on block. you can hit her out of the startup with high guns though. thats pretty much all i got for this mu though, just be really turtly and annoying
 

Srryimwhte

RM PTH
Just going to pick this up where I left it off in the other thread. Since nobody had anything to add to my summary of Aquaman, I've placed it in the guide, though of course it can be revised at any time. On to the next character in the alphabet, and a repost of my thoughts from the other thread:

Not a match I have a terrible amount of experience with. He can outpace DS in damage very easily, though in general it takes just knowing Ares' tricks rather than anything special about DS. He can teleport on a read against low shots for a combo, and he's one of the characters who can more effectively neutralize DS's interactable advantage. Teleports are unsafe and can be countered on reaction, so it's always a bit of a gamble for both players, though a good read favors Ares more. He has reasonable zoning tools to make DS not too gunshot happy, and you have to watch out for MB fireball, which is damned fast and does a lot of damage, as well as his trait sword and axe being able to cover a lot of space. Wakeup teleport provides some options against DS's oki, but again, a bad read will get Ares comboed. Faking teleport by triggering invisibility is largely useless for Ares in this match, because he'll more likely than not just wind up getting shot for his trouble.

5-5 match, IMO.
ares vs ds
6-4 i played mr aquaman offline for training
low shot defeats every option(makes axe and sword disappear on hit) ares has from full screen on reaction aside from dark energy mb
if properly times you can stuff teleports on reaction as well as mb dark energy a bit risky unless you know your opponent
d2 can punish a scouted teleport very effectively and stops all his jump in attempts
323 is very useful in punishing a whiff b1 from ares
an specific question about the mu ask i'll try to help as much as possible i knoe j360 has played him online as well
 

Srryimwhte

RM PTH
You can't really jump fear blasts though, because Sinestro can just MB on reaction. I was also having similar issues with a good Cyborg player the other day. We just kept trading at range, and DS seems to lose all ranged trades now. I'll admit I'm definitely rusty after my 4 or 5 month hiatus, but I just feel totally impotent from full-screen, which seems wrong for a hybrid character.
agreed cyborg is more along the lines make a trade to get the meter and the try to counter zone while working your way in to mix him up i hate the match but i agree with relaxed 6-4
 

Srryimwhte

RM PTH
What is the post-blocked slide meta for Deathstroke?

Frost is at -4(or something like that), so I'm wondering how effective d1/f23 is in this situation.

What are the preferred options after a blocked slide in the Deathstroke/Killer Frost match?
check with d1 d1 spin if it hits mb if not atleast your safe on block at -6 and you will out chip her
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
lets talk shazam for a second. I play @ISF_AWG_Indecisive at the break all the time and breaking down that MU, it seems its not as free as we think it is for DS but nobody is really playing the matchup properly. I for one notice that DS can't reliably win the air to air exchange, pretty much everything will lose out to j2 i think it is other than DS j1 which will sometimes win if its pressed early enough so i wouldn't bet on it. his backdash really cripples his post F3 on block game and he can teleport out of pretty much every knockdown setup you have. I can see a slight advantage to DS but not by much. I just feel shazam players are way too reckless and DS basically murders you for that. of course theres definitely some stuff im not dealing with properly but i just want to go over this briefly because i feel like Indecisive would bop a good number of you guys free.