Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v2

[Crathen]

Since it's the hot topic of the week let's talk about this Zod matchup.

Best stages to fight him:

Batcave / Batcave lagoon : Lagoon has no long range interactable he can throw for free when he gets trait , stage is shorter than most , in the lab he has only bombs and the batmobile missles wich are both in near each corner

Gotham Alley: Dumpster has bad range , left corner acid has bad range , right corner you can try jumping the interactables to reduce the damage.

Atlantis : the pipe is a good air mobility tool to discourage grounded kryptonian rifle / MB ground laser / trait

MB Phantom Strike into Trait / Kryptonian Rifle is actually punishable by techrolling into wakeup quickfire / MB quickfire / low gunshots , if he does Normal/Fast KR we're going to trade hits in case we MB quickfire or MB LGS.

Phantom strike into any KR can be interrupted by techroll into wakeup quickfire.

When he ends combos in 132xxtrait you can dash up MB f3 ( absorbs the trait slash ) f23 into Sword Spin , this wastes his trait time only giving him another trait slash before trait expires , he can't trait slash while in blockstun so you don't have to worry about that.

Blocked PS means he's at negative frames and you can check him with b2 ( recommended ) or 3 from mashing out anoter PS , do take into account the distance you're blocking PS since at max range you won't be able to check him with anything other than a quickfire ( yes duckable and punishable but their game will be throw out another one or backdash / jump away , quickfire covers both ) , at closer ranges if you know they're going to backdash and want to punish them dash forward 323 , it's the best way to punish that as j3 won't reach.

If he blocks LGS fullscreen , he can check him from another lgs with the ground laser ( can be jumped ) or reversal Fast KR to get a trade , however you can't stop him from putting a ball on the screen , it's good to know that if he wants to put a slow ball you can trade with full 14% AR

If you block a fast KR even fullscreen you can check him with quickfire.

Now about the Kryptonian Rifle forest he's going to throw at you after knockdowns...

f213xxS. KR is safe , you can't punish it nor wakeup Flip if you don't techroll you have to take it and be left at slight disadvantage , if you techroll you can trade with quickfire / MB quickfire / AR ( 11%) but he's gaining big advantage with the knockdown.

If you get hit by one KR you're gonna have to block another S.KR meaning he either gets another KR on screen and safe trait activation = 6 trait slashes ( 6.50%) and free interactable if he's near one or he can choose to 50/50.

Block high and react to the ground laser , beware of him dash cancelling into the OH trait grab , if you block it punish with quickfire.

When he has a slowball on the screen and you're 3/4 or fullscreen distance know that he can bait you into jumping and MB ground laser on the way down , if you know it's coming jump and delay air guns , depending on the distance you can quickfire punish him or dash up j3 / 323 whatever.

More to come , to have a chance in this MU you gotta know everything.

 

[LiangHuBBB]

did they buff scorpion again or why is his teleport safe on block?

 

[Crathen]

If you mean the MB Teleport it was always safe even from Flip , being -8 and having pushback makes it impossible to punish even if you standblock the 2nd hit , personally when i block that i mostly go for b23( or b23f2 ) and he's forced to block it , backdash gets caught by the 3 part of the string , he can't jump it and he can't teleport again to evade it , he can low profile it with d3 ( but that's only in a very short frame window ) and that's when i start switching to b1u2 / 32 or just mix up jump 3.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

so ive been trying to work on sinestro lately. it seems like this match is pretty much whoever gets the first decent life lead wins. once you get into around 2/3s screen in you can duck under fear blast with low guns. shoot him in the face for doing boulders. check him for charging trait with guns. also need to work on stuffing arachnid. if you can consistently stuff wakeup arachnid i think this matchup could be in DS's favor but nobody has done that yet. basically if you land a combo early in the game and can stay 2/3s screen or closer it gets really difficult for sinestro, however if he lands the first hit he can will just put you at full screen and charge trait and be able to successfully keep you out and thats when it becomes tough for DS.

 

[ryumanjisen]

As far as I know, you can stuff an arachnid wakeup with a well timed j1 crossup. But it's exactly as you said: whoever gets the life lead first have the upper hand in this match.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

so ive been working on adam lately. you cant really approach him from full screen on the ground because hes going to pop you with lightning and black magic. mostly you're going to want to jump when he uses low lightning to avoid its bullshit properties and block black magic and shoot him in the face. if your reactions are on point you should be able to jump low lightning on reaction. when you get on him, go ham. work on stuffing lightning fingers and lightning cage with b1 and b2. because he cant wake up as reliably as i thought he could, this matchup it helps a little bit. i dont have it down consistently yet but its definitely worth grinding out. if you cant get that down, then dash forward and neutral jump his wakeup. the only difference here is that its not a mixup at this point if he respects your jump. also its worth noting that you can sword flip out of any of those obnoxious cross up divekick setups when he jumps over you and then divekicks you in the face. j3 is a great option against adam. he has a hard time anti airing it from what i can tell (correct me if im wrong). also in air to air exchanges, when jumping forward always use j1, since its active for mad long and its fast. only use j3 when jumping backwards or jumping in on a grounded adam. also, don't be afraid to pushblock. you really arent going to blow much meter in this match. you're only going to really be using it to MB standing guns when you block a black magic from full screen and for MB f3 shenanigans. blowing meter on pushblock isnt a bad idea.

 

[Crathen]

Ok a few MU tips vs Bane , i approach the MU as a heavy hit and run game , when he's in debuff make him stop moving with gunshots and try getting in with j3 / f3 or 50/50s , keep in mind Bane is not helpless as his d1 / d2 are pretty good long range tools so do think about MB f3 if he's pushing buttons.

When he's in Venom lv 1 / 2 you can still play the gunshot game and running away while still being able to use MB f3 ( or other footsie tools ) to interrupt Bane from just dashing in and abuse his armor.

At level 3 you can gunshot only if you think he wants to dash in because they're thinking you're scared by projectile immunity on charge , so don't abuse them , run away as long as you can and avoid corners , MB b3/f3 don't work here.

Now to the actual strats:

We all know how Banes love to cancel their normals into 3 specials when they're juiced up , specifically d2 and d1 for their range , speed and tick throw with command grab , here's how to deal with them.

Summing it up: Backdash > command grab , double punch
MB f3 > LV 1/2 command grab , raging charge
Neutral jump > Raging Charge , command grab

Banes safest option is double punch , riskier is raging charge , so make sure to backdash his 2 best options and bait him into charging to punish with MB F3 ( barring lv3 venom ) , another meterless tool is to just neutral jump 3 ( almost instant 3 ) wich punishes both charge and command grab even while he's in lv3 venom.

Little bonus: if Bane does d1xxCommand grab and the d1 hits , the grab will whiff and it's actually punishable with 132 / b1u2

Now there's no doubt you'll be blocking a few double punches every now and then , and this is the point where everyone still gets mixed up by banes command grab / venom uppercut mixup , luckily Deathstroke can shut down all armor moves / normals with f2xxSS or just reversal sword spin , this is pretty useful because Banes mashing armor after DPs now get punished and get knocked down buying you time and preventing being mixed up and no they can't punish it on whiff even if they backdash.

Since Venom uppecut MB is -7 or less on block ( depends how much he delays the MB ) you cannot punish him if you block it , but you can dash forward to punish it wheter you blocked it low or high ( or delayed / not delayed ) , b3 / b1u2 / 323 all work. You can also MB b3 and hold it a little to get an easier punish but beware that Lv 3 venom breaks this.

Another thing to keep in mind is when you get knocked down is to don't mash wakeups , in fact good Banes do know that they can delay the command grab and interrupt / absorb and punish DS wakeups but delaying your wakeup will stuff their armor attempt ( wich would beat a "early wakeup" but not the delayed one ) , once that is established they can wait a little more to armor through your delayed wakeup but it gives you more frames to act when you stand up without waking up ( so you could for example MB F3 / jump a command grab attempt ).

I'm thinking about more setups to deal with his wakeup game , but most of what i found are baits to make VU whiff wich are not hard to know.

I'll post more if i find something , next one is Doomsday.

@GGA Slips
@KingHippo
@DS players

 

[RM Jonnitti]

when you said bane DP i toutally thought you were talking about the uppercut until i saw the video lol

 

[Crathen]

when you said bane DP i toutally thought you were talking about the uppercut until i saw the video lol

Yeah i know the DP abbreviation would have confused people haha , i made the vids just to clear up misconceptions.

 

[Mikman360]

BA isn't all that bad really. I do hate waking up against Bane though. I just don't know when to block, jump, or wake up sometimes.

 

[Rude]

What do Deathstroke players do vs. The Flash?

 

[Doombawkz]

I should mention in the long bane post that the - on block isn't affected by delay,
It's affected by how far back he hits you. It's anywhere from -8 to +13 at its maximum reach.

 

[JokeStroke]

What do Deathstroke players do vs. The Flash?

Get used to fuzzy guarding d1 b2 f2 mixups. You should play footsies with J3 all your other footsie tools are inadequate. Guns suck because they are punishable. F3 goes over b2 f2.

Real talk.. play gl, sinestro, bats, ww... Basically someone else for that matchup. You guess wrong once is 50% all he has to do is hold down back and the max your mixups will do is 16% each time so you would have to frame trap him 4 times to equal the potential of his one its just a bad matcgup

If youre a flash player looking for advice... May god have mercy on your soul.

 

[Rude]

Get used to fuzzy guarding d1 b2 f2 mixups. You should play footsies with J3 all your other footsie tools are inadequate. Guns suck because they are punishable. F3 goes over b2 f2.

Real talk.. play gl, sinestro, bats, ww... Basically someone else for that matchup. You guess wrong once is 50% all he has to do is hold down back and the max your mixups will do is 16% each time so you would have to frame trap him 4 times to equal the potential of his one its just a bad matcgup

If youre a flash player looking for advice... May god have mercy on your soul.

I'm trying to main Deathstroke. I don't believe in counter-picking.

 

[Crathen]

Get used to fuzzy guarding d1 b2 f2 mixups. You should play footsies with J3 all your other footsie tools are inadequate. Guns suck because they are punishable. F3 goes over b2 f2.

Real talk.. play gl, sinestro, bats, ww... Basically someone else for that matchup. You guess wrong once is 50% all he has to do is hold down back and the max your mixups will do is 16% each time so you would have to frame trap him 4 times to equal the potential of his one its just a bad matcgup

If youre a flash player looking for advice... May god have mercy on your soul.

It's not bad as many would think , he can have a difficoult time AA j3 , and he still has to chase him down on a lifelead , play smart footsies , don't shoot and always be ready with d2 in case he dashes ( oh boy do flash players love dash in 50 50 ) or jumps , you can always AA him , backdash or jump his frametraps , his best tool to keep DS in check at midrange is b22 so know that distance and don't panic , f3 good in the neutral game and if armored can blow up bad timed b2s , punish both MB torpedo / torpedo with 323 ( b1u2 is good too but it's spacing dependent on normal torpedo ) , bring him to the corner and mix up all your tools , use low shot only when you think he's gonna dash outside the MB low gunshot range , use 70% MB lgs and always delay them to throw them off. Read dashes and go in and mix him up.

Don't you ever think approching this MU with guns , that's why yall think it's hella bad , pressure and play footsies and jump when necessary. Anyone saying this is 7-3 bad is insane.

 

[Rampage254]

What do Deathstroke players do vs. The Flash?

We have to play really smart

 

[Rude]

It's not bad as many would think , he can have a difficoult time AA j3 , and he still has to chase him down on a lifelead , play smart footsies , don't shoot and always be ready with d2 in case he dashes ( oh boy do flash players love dash in 50 50 ) or jumps , you can always AA him , backdash or jump his frametraps , his best tool to keep DS in check at midrange is b22 so know that distance and don't panic , f3 good in the neutral game and if armored can blow up bad timed b2s , punish both MB torpedo / torpedo with 323 ( b1u2 is good too but it's spacing dependent on normal torpedo ) , bring him to the corner and mix up all your tools , use low shot only when you think he's gonna dash outside the MB low gunshot range , use 70% MB lgs and always delay them to throw them off. Read dashes and go in and mix him up.

Don't you ever think approching this MU with guns , that's why yall think it's hella bad , pressure and play footsies and jump when necessary. Anyone saying this is 7-3 bad is insane.

This is the smartest answer I've been given.

Crathen, I'd like to discuss this more. Particularly with jumping the frame traps. Technically, if you can jump it, is it a frame trap?

Should we be using Pushblock? Does D2 come into play in this match?

 

[ryublaze]

What do Deathstroke players do vs. The Flash?

I've played Khaotic_Zoom, Friction Burn, and @The_SNKE who are good flash players and it usually feels 4-6. You have to play really good footsies and don't make a mistake. I like F3 a lot in this MU and dash cancelling out of it but again if u make a mistake like whiffing it or they can punish for big damage. I do crouch feints to make them think I'm going for low shots, this buys u time and can create more spacing. Jump 3 is really good, u can catch them if they dash in. Jumping backwards and air gun before u hit the ground can catch him if he tries to dash in so then he'll start ducking whenever u jump back, again buys time and spacing. Like every1 else said try to get him in the corner.

 

[Crathen]

This is the smartest answer I've been given.

Crathen, I'd like to discuss this more. Particularly with jumping the frame traps. Technically, if you can jump it, is it a frame trap?

Should we be using Pushblock? Does D2 come into play in this match?

You can jump most of his frametraps , this includes b22 , b2 , b22xxRMS into d12 , you'll be eating the first d1 ( both d1d2 in case of a frame perfect b22xxrms ) but you get knocked away a little and you can techroll for some space , technically it's still a frametrap because he's at advantage.

Now smart players will bait that jump and wait it to AA with the lightning uppercut , that's when you start backdashing. Backdash can be beaten with b22 or f2 so beware of that.

Pushblock is good to use if you want to play it safe , use it mostly when cornered , midscreen try avoiding using meter to get off him.

D2 always comes to play in MUs , great AA and its +1 on block , use it defensively especially when at that range when he can only dash in or jump to get pressure on you wich is just outside of b22 range , you can react to both dashes and jumpins , not so much online tho.

 

[M2Dave]

Anyone saying this is 7-3 bad is insane.

Early fool of the week candidate is you.

 

[Crathen]

Early fool of the week candidate is you.

That'd mean more Deathstroke talk , i like it.

But i've yet have to play a flash that mopped me up so bad to think it's that bad.It's a shame i can't prove it myself in an offline setting.

 

[Rude]

Crathen EVO donation drive?

 

[Crathen]

Crathen EVO donation drive?

I'd love to get there but realisticaly it's too much money , i've had plans to move in USA but it's not anywhere soon.

 

[Qwark28]

I've played Khaotic_Zoom, Friction Burn, and @The_SNKE who are good flash players and it usually feels 4-6. You have to play really good footsies and don't make a mistake. I like F3 a lot in this MU and dash cancelling out of it but again if u make a mistake like whiffing it or they can punish for big damage. I do crouch feints to make them think I'm going for low shots, this buys u time and can create more spacing. Jump 3 is really good, u can catch them if they dash in. Jumping backwards and air gun before u hit the ground can catch him if he tries to dash in so then he'll start ducking whenever u jump back, again buys time and spacing. Like every1 else said try to get him in the corner.

Please stop saying muffinmuggers is any good

 

[ryublaze]

Please stop saying muffinmuggers is any good

He actually has a pretty good Flash. Idk anything about the whole muffinmuggers story, but him as a player has done the best against me out of all Flashes I've played.