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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-up Chart v2

Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
I feel Nightwing is a winnable matchup, but it's still a flippin hard one. I'm not certain on numbers. I feel like when I lose it, it's because I made stupid mistakes >_>

(Maybe sticking to the schedule would be a good idea though...)
 
LordChozo

LordChozo

Mainless Wanderer
Ares > Chozo. How can I improve this equation?

I feel like his flying elbow is nigh unbeatable in the air, and I don't know any of the punishes I probably should. I've been hit with godsmack resets, but they all look different to me. I feel like maybe his strings just all look the same to me, like a big gray blob of flailing arms, so I don't know how to react to any of them.

Basically, I just suck. What should I be looking for in this matchup?
 
Mikman360

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
LordChozo said:
Ares > Chozo. How can I improve this equation?

I feel like his flying elbow is nigh unbeatable in the air, and I don't know any of the punishes I probably should. I've been hit with godsmack resets, but they all look different to me. I feel like maybe his strings just all look the same to me, like a big gray blob of flailing arms, so I don't know how to react to any of them.

Basically, I just suck. What should I be looking for in this matchup?
Click to expand...

It seems to me that his air attacks have incredible startup speed, more than DS' (I have to check frame data). All I say is don't try to air to air him, go for the D2 and Flip AAs.

If he's raw teleporting without any setup, a raw J1 or J3 can hit him and start a combo.

Learn the startup animation of his overhead string, He can mix that up with D1 xx Trait for some nasty mixups.

Techroll+Flip wakeup if he's trying Godsmack reset shenanigans.
 
Drizzle

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
d1 xx trait is interruptible so he's risking a lot by going for it at all. Also, neutral j3 destroys his wakeup options.
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
Ok. So after hruza knocked me out of losers last week at GGA I went home and crunched this matchup and had a breakthrough.

Nightwing can do very little about j3. j3 stuffs all nightwings wakeups. once he starts respecting j3 you can either follow it up with a mixup or just dash up and mix him up because he'll be waiting to block j3.

He gets bullied by j3 ALOT in staff stance because of his limited mobility, he can't keep up with deathstroke mixing up guns and jump in mixups. If he goes for a flying grayson you d2 him into combo.

He has to play the match in escrima. and DS doesn't have to worry about his crazy advantage from staff pound when he's in escrima. Just zone him. Even if he's shooting escrima sparky things just zone his ass... He can't keep up.. He has to come to you and when he does be ready and score your knockdown and go mix him up again on wakeup.


When hruza and I played this matchup in the past (we've probably run about 500 games total) we usually would go 5-5 on average.

After studying this matchup and playing it "correctly" last night: 10-0 and then 2-0 in tournament.

6-4 Deathstroke imo.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
So with the patch coming October 1, I'm pretty much not going to update this thread until at least Tuesday, and then how much effort I put into it pre-patch will depend on how much it looks like our matchups will be changing.
 
Rampage254

Rampage254

Ayy Lmao
I wish I could help contribute more to the DS forum, but I never was good with talking MUs or strategy on how to fight certain characters.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
I fucking hate the Wonder Woman match, though. 6-4 in her favor is such an underrepresentation of her bullshit.
 
Duck Nation

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
If she's in whip range, she's winning that match full stop. DS can only do anything to her outside of that, but then she has some of the most robust mobility tools in the game and he has a really hard time making her stop doing shit like demigoddess, because if she gets away with one she gets huge advantages out of it, whereas if he stops one he gets nothing but a single gunshot's worth of damage. She will get in, and when she does she's going to destroy DS. Anti-air as good as Aquaman, longer range on her normals, dangerous 50/50s into high damage, brutal corner setups that she's not going to have a hard time getting, and if by some miracle you knock her down she has one wakeup that will beat everything DS can do to her - and launch him into a full combo. And worst of all, if you don't have the life lead, she can back off, go into shield stance and suddenly you can't chip her anymore either to convince her to try and advance on you. She'll just wait for you to come at her and resume beating the fucking daylights out of you again.

Fucking manface cunt.
 
JokeStroke

JokeStroke

Mortal
Vagrant
If you are in jump range you are in staff poke range.

If you jump in NW's J2 will beat your J3 clean because it comes out faster / has a better upwards hitbox.
 
LordChozo

LordChozo

Mainless Wanderer
Duck Nation said:
If she's in whip range, she's winning that match full stop. DS can only do anything to her outside of that, but then she has some of the most robust mobility tools in the game and he has a really hard time making her stop doing shit like demigoddess, because if she gets away with one she gets huge advantages out of it, whereas if he stops one he gets nothing but a single gunshot's worth of damage. She will get in, and when she does she's going to destroy DS. Anti-air as good as Aquaman, longer range on her normals, dangerous 50/50s into high damage, brutal corner setups that she's not going to have a hard time getting, and if by some miracle you knock her down she has one wakeup that will beat everything DS can do to her - and launch him into a full combo. And worst of all, if you don't have the life lead, she can back off, go into shield stance and suddenly you can't chip her anymore either to convince her to try and advance on you. She'll just wait for you to come at her and resume beating the fucking daylights out of you again.

Fucking manface cunt.
Click to expand...
I got a hard knockdown on a WW the other day and followed with mb f3 and she did that lasso twirl wakeup and it still hit me out. She got a full combo punish off a move I used specifically to bait and punish the move she did. That's some bull. Might have been a glitch, but I'm still salty about it.
 
Drizzle

Drizzle

Jump and shoot.
If you end your b1u2 or f3 combos with 12 xx sword flip, you can just dash twice and j3 will beat wakeup spin. MB f3/b3 works too. Off of b22 if you end in sword flip, dash into j3 will make the spin whiff and you get a combo off of it. You can do that instead of the double dash setup if you prefer.
 
Vagrant

Vagrant

Champion
Mikman360 said:
I swear I'm the only one that thinks this
Click to expand...

Months and months and months ago I thought Aquaman had advantage because Dizzy just beat the dog shit out of me at GGA. But I was just playing the matchup bad.

Try to keep him out of that mid range area
Zone him fullscreen
Punish any blocked From The Deep with quickfire
Lowshot if he tries to trident toss you

Block him low upclose
If you see the overhead just adjust and block it high and block low afterwards in case he goes for scoop

Other then that, just play your game.
 
The Slaj Jazz

The Slaj Jazz

TIckle my sweet salty nips
Mikman360 said:
There's this one NW player that posted a very nice essay on how to handle the matchup. It should be here.
Click to expand...
Posted by @NightwingDayZero


Deathstroke can zone Nightwing.

This matchup boils down to you - making the right reads at the right time.

The escrima spark counter zoning only works if you aren't being liberal with low guns. Fuck it. Nuetral jump the spark. Low guns away.

If Nightwing is ever caught in staff stance at full screen, pummel him with low guns. Even if you're trading - keep pummeling. Eventually Nightwing will eat too much chip, and will need to get back to escrima. Be ready to punish the stance change with MB low guns.

You can d2 every flying grayson attempt. Or you can high guns. Whatever you want. Both work just fine.

Nightwing is free on wakeup to j3. Just do it.

j3 a lot. Nightwing's d2 is shit, his wakeups are shit(flip kick included), his only shot at stopping j3? Countering with Staff j2. When Nightwing is in staff stance - push block him and then IMMEDIATELY MB high guns. This will stuff any Flying Grayson attempt at getting back in. And put him at full screen where you can pummel with low guns. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO PUSH BLOCK STAFF OVER AND OVER. What the fuck is Nightwing going to do to get back in? Flying Grayson is a gimmick. Do not be afraid of it.

For all the setups Nightwing has, Deathstroke has a wakeup option for them. Sword Spin works effectively for all of them. Sword Flip to stuff raw jump ins, otherwise, be liberal with the sword spins - just look out for wingdings to stuff sword flip and sword spin. The fact that Deathstroke can rape Nightwing on wakeup, whereas Nightwing has little to answer for Deathstroke's wakeups - only further puts this MU in DS's favor.

Speaking of Wingdings. Don't get impatient if you're cornered by Nightwing. Often times I take advantage of Deathstroke players who panic when I put them in the corner with wingdings. Just block. Be patient. Look for the unsafe wingdings. If he doesn't meter burn them - you're in. If that means eating the chip - so be it. Don't try and sword flip your way out. I use Wingdings to keep zoners with great wakeups like Deathstroke and Cyborg pinned in the corner. Both characters struggle to deal with wingdings at the proper spacing - patience is what matters here. They're not nearly as safe as they seem, but waking up is NOT the answer.

nj3 beats nearly all of Nightwing's wakeup options in both stances.
 
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