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Noob Sailboat needs help

He's not mid tier though is he ? nearly all his strings are unsafe including his go to string (b1 1+3) and his b3 one aswell. -17 on a string is ridiculous. And also his zoning is horrible for a character that was designed to have good zoning His clone goes away when it trades and his force balls are meh at best. some characters can bypass it like kabal for some reason where nomad dash also ignores It.
Never happens when i play noob
 

fr stack

Noob's saibot or noob saibot's?
Hang on ! Noob has two krushing blows off of throw? Or is there one for each side for everyone?
 
He cant kill you with the sand traps when in fullscreen. And you can just walk forward and move in that sweet mid range spot where Noob can compete against Geras. Noob also deals great dmg off 113. I never mentioned using b1, 1+3 string unless its a punish and unless opponent pushes buttons in -f etc which is pretty much what i see with every Geras player doing these days :REO. They use f212 on block and then they d1 almost all the time lol. Shit is fun as hell to watch.

For Gera's f212, Noob has f2.

Also i forgot to mention the range on Noob's regular throws. That shit is ridiculous, he practically sucks the opponent in and not to mention the fact he has 2 KB's from throws only! Thats 62% dmg!


P.S: I m not saying that Noob wins against Geras, but lets be real right here. Character has some issues yes, but not the ones i see some posting in this thread. He was supposed to be a zoning character yes, but guess what. If they buff his zoning, they will nerf his other tools.

Except from the b3 and clone KB requirements, the only changes i would give Noob, is to make his up knee special move a mid hitting attack, a slighly faster startup and better recovery in his clone tackle move and slightly reduce the dmg his tp does as a combo ender cause that shit is ridiculous af.

With these changes implemented he could compete against everyone imo.
Not gonna comment about the Geras stuff because I'm not qualified as of yet to give an opinion. I do however feel he could very much receive a buff to his zoning. Why in the hell can Cassie/Sub/Sonya/Erron do the shit they can do at mid~close range and still have superior zoning to the rest of the cast? Even if you gave noob back his powerful clones, he still has a non existent mixup game outside of safe mid/d4/throw, so it wouldn't make him OP at all. Like b3 KB is worthless as no one good will stand block against noob. Clone is the same. It dissappears if he's hit, slow, huge recovery, and lots of things just flat out ignore it. We gotta land that move 10 times for a KB?! Nah try again B. As far as upknee, is there any situation where AA standing 1 isn't a better choice? They jump in, and eat 30%+ for their trouble.

His damage is fine. No one has the right to complain about his high damage. His damage is primarily from whiff/block punishment. My secondary is Sonya, and if she can do 40% from a mkx tier 50/50 then Noob shouldn't get any flack about his damage.

I'll end this long post with a question: If we had access to his other specials(divekick/clonedrop?) would that change his situation? I haven't looked at this seeing as they arent tournament variation, but Im sure some of you fine people have dabbled.
 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
Not gonna comment about the Geras stuff because I'm not qualified as of yet to give an opinion. I do however feel he could very much receive a buff to his zoning. Why in the hell can Cassie/Sub/Sonya/Erron do the shit they can do at mid~close range and still have superior zoning to the rest of the cast? Even if you gave noob back his powerful clones, he still has a non existent mixup game outside of safe mid/d4/throw, so it wouldn't make him OP at all. Like b3 KB is worthless as no one good will stand block against noob. Clone is the same. It dissappears if he's hit, slow, huge recovery, and lots of things just flat out ignore it. We gotta land that move 10 times for a KB?! Nah try again B. As far as upknee, is there any situation where AA standing 1 isn't a better choice? They jump in, and eat 30%+ for their trouble.

Once again the likes of Erron, Sonya or Sub should not be the standard we are comparing characters to. They are probably amongst the strongest in the game at the moment, some might even argue too strong. They are definitely not the definition of balanced at all.

He seems fine relative to other characters, of course he’ll come across weaker compared to the top tiers. That’s why they’re called TOP tiers.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I'll end this long post with a question: If we had access to his other specials(divekick/clonedrop?) would that change his situation? I haven't looked at this seeing as they arent tournament variation, but Im sure some of you fine people have dabbled.
The dive kick would serve a similar function to Kabal's aerial downward buzz saw so I assume Noob's mid range as well as zoning game would be a lot better if the move were equipped. I am not sure about the other moves, but I recall someone mentioning that the sickle grab would give Noob access to even more damage.

Once again the likes of Erron, Sonya or Sub should not be the standard we are comparing characters to.
Yes, they should be. Unless you are strictly playing the game at a casual level with you friends, you will encounter characters like Erron Black and Geras much more frequently than characters like D'Vorah and Kotal Kahn while playing offline or online. The notion that tier lists only matter at the highest level of play is also inaccurate. Simply playing ranked online exposes you to the better characters in the game. Characters are therefore judged and compared to the top tier characters of the game, not the low tier characters that are rarely used.
 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
Yes, they should be. Unless you are strictly playing the game at a casual level with you friends, you will encounter characters like Erron Black and Geras much more frequently than characters like D'Vorah and Kotal Kahn while playing offline or online. The notion that tier lists only matter at the highest level of play is also inaccurate. Simply playing ranked online exposes you to the better characters in the game. Characters are therefore judged and compared to the top tier characters of the game, not the low tier characters that are rarely used.
I don't think that's what he meant. I think he's saying that NRS shouldn't aim to balance all characters around their level.
 

Dante

Noob
A safe special thats not high and a mid starting string to hit confirm into it (f2/b1). Kbs are most likely to get fixed eventually
 

Moms4lif3

Bruh.
I don't think that's what he meant. I think he's saying that NRS shouldn't aim to balance all characters around their level.
Exactly my point, thank you. Of course I see how these characters are the ones that players have to compete with, but that doesn’t mean they are what a balanced character should look like.

If some of their stuff would get tweaked a little other characters would stand way more of a chance against them. Buffing all characters to this level cannot be the answer in order to balance this game.

To me some of the shit they have is downright stupid: why can Erron meterburn a normal on whiff?! No other character can do that kinda stuff, why should he?
Not the topic of this thread though, just trying to underline my original point.
 
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Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Also i forgot to mention the range on Noob's regular throws. That shit is ridiculous, he practically sucks the opponent in and not to mention the fact he has 2 KB's from throws only! Thats 62% dmg!
Wait.. He has 2 KBs on throws? Both sides can KB in one match?
 
As far as Noob buffs I say buff his clone. It doesn't need to be mk9 tier, but it needs to have a use. ATM its just a combo ender when you can't end with b1, 1+3~Spiritball/tele. The KB mechanic is doubly worthless, being a ridiculous requirement for a move we aren't motivated to use. I say drop the clone amount to 5, and do some tweaking to clone. Too many things flat out ignore it, and it disappearing if he gets hit kills any potential trade benefits. I feel if you go that route, he has an answer for the silly zoning/fireballs others have, but without making him a different/one trick character. To provide some imagery with this:

You're fighting a Cassie(ugh), and your clone will trade with her low gunshot regardless if you get hit, and 6th clone mb=KB for nice damage. That means she can't just low shot and laugh at you, but now she has to be mindful of those trades, because 6th trade mb is damage. Depending on the life/time situation this is a big deal. Cassie has to respect that next clone, which allows noob to approach. It will help him a lot in matches where opponents can just stand outside b2 range and do whatever they want, but it doesn't just flip flip the MU, which is all we really need. You'd still have to be solid at spacing/neutral. Outside of that I think he is fine.
 
I hate to break it to you guys but Noob is actually one of the best characters in the game... granted he’s not geras, Sonya, or scorpion tier but he’s just below them. He’s got great buttons. B2 is an amazing space control mid for when ppl try to crouch walk under your projectile (it will even anti air those far jumps) and it’s safe and if it hits they get knocked full screen to have to get back in. Use it more. He has one of the best D2 in the game right behind jade and arguably the best D4 in the game. His F3 is a GOD TIER anti air that leads into at least 35% if you decide to go into a restand and 40% if you go for damage. His F221 is also really good (yes I know it starts off a high) if it started as mid noob would be broken. It’s a forward advancing safe string that leads into 25ish% meterless midscreen and if you get hit by it in the corner your eating 40%. Btw go into training mode and do F22 on block and look at the distance it leaves you at, it’s the perfect distance noob wants to play in. It leaves you at max B3 distance which is also the perfect distance for a B2 which is also the perfect distance for another F22. Basically if the opponent blocks your F22 they are still at a disadvantage because noob outranges 90% of the cast. Btw he wins most zoning wars. Go find another meterless projectile that does more damage on hit than noobs (it’s also one of the fastest), this means that trading projectiles isn’t a good idea with him. Plus you have teleport so I can’t sympathize with ppl getting outzoned as noob. We even have the air sickle to punish projectiles from the air I mean com on we should not be getting outzoned. Oh and last point about noob. We do CRAZY damage go out and use any other character and try to break 35% midscreen and 40% in the corner for just one bar and no KB’s I think you might have a hard time unless you pick Sonya.

Overall this character is pretty good guys I haven’t seen a tier list from the competitive community put him anywhere below A tier. Only thing that might need changing is some krushing blow requirements and if we see that you can expect to see our dmg nerfed to compensate. If you’re playing noob there really isn’t much to complain about imo
 
IDK, they seem pretty well designed to me. Pretty much any character in the game seems to be usable, or at least capable of outplaying the opponent in the correct hands.
I think Noob's good, but there are remnants of another Noob that never came to be all over his design.

10 shadow tackles to KB from a time where the intent was for Noob to be a zoner who would throw a lot of tackles. There are matches where I don't throw a single tackle. B3 KB if stand blocking, probably from a time where the tackle was overhead. The only way to land that now is if your opponent is sleeping. Variation 1 seems to be designed as the zoning variation. You get better but still adequate zoning in variation 2.

While I think it's pretty cool we've all settled on Noob being this mid range character that hits like a truck to punish mistakes, playing Noob feels like using tools designed for something else to make the best of what we have. And like I said, what we have made is good, but Kabal is a character who was designed to play that way.

Kabal has mids with great range, is very safe on all his strings, and has 5 KBs on punish or kounter (universal D2, B1,2,D2, 2,2,4, BD4, and BF1Amp). That is a character designed to force whiffs/mistakes and punish. There is a synergy to Kabal's design that Noob lacks.

So even though I think Noob's good I have no problem with people saying he's not well designed. I would gladly take a nerf to his damage to get a character with the synergy that Kabal has. If it's midrange punish Noob you want, nerf his damage significantly, and make B3,1+3 safer and KB on punish. Make Amp Tackle KB on anti-air. And make B1,1+3 safer. Now you have a character with a cohesive design.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I think Noob's good, but there are remnants of another Noob that never came to be all over his design.

10 shadow tackles to KB from a time where the intent was for Noob to be a zoner who would throw a lot of tackles. There are matches where I don't throw a single tackle. B3 KB if stand blocking, probably from a time where the tackle was overhead. The only way to land that now is if your opponent is sleeping. Variation 1 seems to be designed as the zoning variation. You get better but still adequate zoning in variation 2.

While I think it's pretty cool we've all settled on Noob being this mid range character that hits like a truck to punish mistakes, playing Noob feels like using tools designed for something else to make the best of what we have. And like I said, what we have made is good, but Kabal is a character who was designed to play that way.

Kabal has mids with great range, is very safe on all his strings, and has 5 KBs on punish or kounter (universal D2, B1,2,D2, 2,2,4, BD4, and BF1Amp). That is a character designed to force whiffs/mistakes and punish. There is a synergy to Kabal's design that Noob lacks.

So even though I think Noob's good I have no problem with people saying he's not well designed. I would gladly take a nerf to his damage to get a character with the synergy that Kabal has. If it's midrange punish Noob you want, nerf his damage significantly, and make B3,1+3 safer and KB on punish. Make Amp Tackle KB on anti-air. And make B1,1+3 safer. Now you have a character with a cohesive design.
Very good post. You perfectly described how I feel about Noob.

I also believe that shadow tackle might have been an overhead attack in the beta. Developers must have come to the conclusion that the overhead shadow tackle was too powerful or they simply panicked and changed the hit range before the official release. I am not sure how else you would explain the krushing blow requirements on the tackle as well as b+3,1+3.

I am not even going to comment on Noob being "one of the best characters in the game". I think that is crazy talk.
 
Very good post. You perfectly described how I feel about Noob.

I also believe that shadow tackle might have been an overhead attack in the beta. Developers must have come to the conclusion that the overhead shadow tackle was too powerful or they simply panicked and changed the hit range before the official release. I am not sure how else you would explain the krushing blow requirements on the tackle as well as b+3,1+3.

I am not even going to comment on Noob being "one of the best characters in the game". I think that is crazy talk.
If you disagree let me know what you think is holding him back and I’ll drop you 5 other characters that have the same issue but worse than noob. Not every character needs a 50/50 to be considered good this isn’t mkx. We on the same page as far as the KB requirements go those don’t seem to make sense but I dont think that alone keeps him from being A tier. We will still have both throw KB’s and the counter hit B1 KB. Oh and don’t forget D2 if you hit someone with that it’s 50 percent life gone. Plus full screen FB that you can use on reaction to literally anything.

If you’re arguing that his design is off that’s one thing but to say that this character isn’t one of the best in the game I think that’s insane. And yes I play noob I just think the downplay In this thread is strong lol if you wanna see real struggle go check out some of the other character threads. There aren’t many characters that have it better than us lol
 

Dante

Noob
No one said anything about 50-50
Yeah there are worse chars but that doesn't mean shit.
Chars should be buffed to subzero lvls not nerfed to noob saibot lvls for balance.
Should I explain what this implies? Can you compare those two designs?
 

AceOfKnaves

Hallucin8
This thread is crazy.

However personaly I wouldn't mind an OH. Nothing even super fancy even a slow was hit that causes knockdown just to scare people into blocking high for b3 KB
But even then not the most necessary because theres other ways to open people up

And I think thinking issues could be solved by having shadow clone splat with other projectiles be cause spirit ball is already super quick and wins in damage on most trades.

Other than that Noob is dumb good in this game.

b1-1+3 is fine being unsafe that's the trade off, good distanced, rather quick (9frame) amazing wiff punish tool that goes into amazing damage. Dont commit to the 1+3 if you're sure you're going to be punished. b1 is safe alone to be a quick poke/check on your opponent.

Not to mention d1 dick punches jail into d1 making it even more super useful to check if your opponent is a little over ambitious with counter pokes.

And I'm not even saying really Nerf the rest of the cast just a few tweaks here and there.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Chars should be buffed to subzero lvls not nerfed to noob saibot lvls for balance.
Nerfing Sub Zero (and a handful of other top tier characters) to Noob's level takes less work than buffing all the other characters to Sub Zero's level. I think you already know which route NRS will take.

b1-1+3 is fine being unsafe that's the trade off...
The trade offs are hardly worth anything. I think I speak for most Noob players when I say I had rather have access to a safe b+1,1+3 with a hurt box and slightly less damage. Almost all characters with safe 9 to 11 frame mid strings are top tier.