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Noob Sailboat needs help

Matix218

Get over here!
I was in the process of making a video on Noob Saibot on whether or not he needs buffs and I stopped because I wasn't sure if it was worth my time, since I doubt anyone would take anyones 2 cents into consideration. It seems like those who believe Noob needs buffs refuse to acknowledge any other belief that conflicts with their own.

I was writing the script for it and in their I talk about the points those who want buffs are asking for and it dawned on me that with their suggestions for buffs plus how Noob is now would equate to Noob being MK9 Kabal tier, if not the close to it. It made me realize how absurd the idea of Noob receiving buffs is.

The buffs people have been suggesting are:
  1. More mixups
  2. Better Zoning
  3. Safer strings (He's safe on a lot already, so I guess they mean + advantage to make him more of an aggro character)
All those combined with great midrange gameplay, some of the best pokes in the game, 3 combo starters that start at 7,8 and 9 frames, and strings that advance him forward would make him stupid good.

I just think people don't realize what they're asking for. They don't realize the character isn't the reason why they're losing. It's them.
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If anyone is curious about the video and would actually take the time to listen then maybe I'll de ide to finish it.
Hito I'd watch it but i really only think one buff could possibly make sense which is reduce requirement for shadow clone krushing blow. I used to think that shadow tackle should be an overhead but after playing more I am not so sure. I DO think that you should be able to enhance shadow tackle on startup to make it an overhead (specifically to help variation 1). Your thoughts on this?
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
B1, 1+3 is safe. The 1+3 pushes the opponent back on block, so very little can punish it. The only time it can be considered "unsafe" is if you do b1 literally right next to the opponent which never happens, unless you're using it wrong and even then it pushes you back a good distance. B1 is a spacing tool.

I'd recommend stop relying so much on numbers and learn how to space properly. I use this move all the time at my locals and not much can punish it.
I get your point.

However.. characters against who this tool cannot be "just thrown out" are immidiately a much harder MU.

Example: liu kang. Punishes the b1, 1+3 almost every single time. Same goes to JC, Jade...
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Hito I'd watch it but i really only think one buff could possibly make sense which is reduce requirement for shadow clone krushing blow. I used to think that shadow tackle should be an overhead but after playing more I am not so sure. I DO think that you should be able to enhance shadow tackle on startup to make it an overhead (specifically to help variation 1). Your thoughts on this?
That's an interesting idea. I don't know. I'd have to get back to you on that.

In the video I propose the idea of buffing his Seeing Double variation by changing the skills that are equip for him, either altering them or out right choosing a different skill.

I get your point.

However.. characters against who this tool cannot be "just thrown out" are immidiately a much harder MU.

Example: liu kang. Punishes the b1, 1+3 almost every single time. Same goes to JC, Jade...
That's what I mean. It's hard to punish and only certain characters can punish him on the string. My apologies. I should of specified more; however, to be fair b1 is safe. You should be checking the opponent with it at proper distance and if they block then you don't hit 1+3.
 
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Dante

Noob
Jacqui, geras, jade, subzero, liu all punish it.
It is absurd to be left at a situation like blocking geras 3hit strings and not be able to threaten with anything.
Againwe literally play with d4 for 3% idk why it doesn't sound crazy to you :p

Also tackle being overhead doesn't help with any fundamental problem imo. Id either make it safe.
 
You know, it’s funny I found this thread.

Watching videos and seeing these “tier” lists - I decided to pick up ol Noob cause I was tired or Geras.

Man, after feeling comfortable and getting some high damage combos down - I ventured into Online.

Wow, at the disparity.

Against brain dead button mashers, noob is a damn beast, but playing anyone with at least decent knowledge shows how crap it can be playing with him.

Everyone just punished the teleport or they constantly pressure the zone play of him.

It’s not impossible to open up against them, but it really forces me to not use Noob optimally.

Feels like I’m handcuffed with crappy KB options and not much else in the arsenal.

There’s potential for him to be top tier but I was really underwhelmed tonight after a long evening of PvP matches.

Not saying he is terrible, I just wish he had just a few extra viable moves is all. Very little in the way of overheads means you can pretty much just crouch block everything.

Need to get back at the grind and see if I can switch it up a bit.
Don't raw teleport lol, worst thing you could possibly do with him. Never end a block string with it, you get blown up. Ill mash out the string and try to just hold down, if i see a hit, quickly press up, if not, d1, d3, d4 is right there.

Scorpion tele gets punished pretty much the same
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Jacqui, geras, jade, subzero, liu all punish it.
It is absurd to be left at a situation like blocking geras 3hit strings and not be able to threaten with anything.
Againwe literally play with d4 for 3% idk why it doesn't sound crazy to you :p

Also tackle being overhead doesn't help with any fundamental problem imo. Id either make it safe.
Don't forget Kano, but only close distance. At max distance you have time to block Kano ball.

To be fair, you should be using b1 to check the opponent. B1 is safe on block. If they block you don't hit 1+3, but if it hits you confirm into 1+3, then amp teleslam into a combo. It's a trade off for a move that pushes you back far enough to where you're best at. I don't see the problem

You d3 or d4 like the rest of the cast. Geras 2,1,2 lands a guaranteed d2. Block that and you're back at neutral. Welcome to playing a neutral based character. If it bothers you that much then play a different character.

With all due respect, if you ever want to challenge someone's idea on here then it's best to not use emojis in a conversation like this. It gives off a certain level of arrogance. You're better than that. If you see that my logic is flawed just contest it with logic alone. Leave contemporary internet logistics out of it. I'll take you more seriously and so will others.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
You guys watching Sonic’s tier list? He has Noob in A+ and said that he’s broken. lol
I wouldn't say broken, but I believe him being higher up in the echelon of good character in this game. Do you have a link?

Is he just saying what characters are best based off of impressions or does he have actual matchups numbers with everyone? It's definitely not the latter because it's too damn early for that.
 

Dante

Noob
Don't forget Kano, but only close distance. At max distance you have time to block Kano ball.

To be fair, you should be using b1 to check the opponent. B1 is safe on block. If they block you don't hit 1+3, but if it hits you confirm into 1+3, then amp teleslam into a combo. It's a trade off for a move that pushes you back far enough to where you're best at. I don't see the problem

You d3 or d4 like the rest of the cast. Geras 2,1,2 lands a guaranteed d2. Block that and you're back at neutral. Welcome to playing a neutral based character. If it bothers you that much then play a different character.

With all due respect, if you ever want to challenge someone's idea on here then it's best to not use emojis in a conversation like this. It gives off a certain level of arrogance. You're better than that. If you see that my logic is flawed just contest it with logic alone. Leave contemporary internet logistics out of it. I'll take you more seriously and so will others.
My sincerest apologies I didn't mean anything with it, just a life long habit of mine with "chat".

What I rly mean is chars can do b14 confirm for scorpion, b32 for sub etc. D1 etc are the safer options but doesn't get rewards. I'm sure you understand my pov.
Is b11+3 confirmable? If it is (even if hard?) I wasn't aware of it and then I'm OK with just fixed kbs.

Lastly, my wins all come from correct spacing with noob (or just beating bad players), but my loses come for stuff like jc/liu/sub pressure which A. Is too early to deal him properly and B. Is there to use and is very rewarding.
And C. Feelsbadman
Thoughts?
 

Nortnauq

QUAN CHI FOR DLC
I wouldn't say broken, but I believe him being higher up in the echelon of good character in this game. Do you have a link?

Is he just saying what characters are best based off of impressions or does he have actual matchups numbers with everyone? It's definitely not the latter because it's too damn early for that.
It’s live on his Twitch. But yeah, I definitely agree that he’s not broken. Fox is just going off of his experiences and some MU knowledge. Thought I’d share what he said here though, since Noob obviously doesn’t need any help.
 
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Nortnauq

QUAN CHI FOR DLC
Don't forget Kano, but only close distance. At max distance you have time to block Kano ball.

To be fair, you should be using b1 to check the opponent. B1 is safe on block. If they block you don't hit 1+3, but if it hits you confirm into 1+3, then amp teleslam into a combo. It's a trade off for a move that pushes you back far enough to where you're best at. I don't see the problem

You d3 or d4 like the rest of the cast. Geras 2,1,2 lands a guaranteed d2. Block that and you're back at neutral. Welcome to playing a neutral based character. If it bothers you that much then play a different character.

With all due respect, if you ever want to challenge someone's idea on here then it's best to not use emojis in a conversation like this. It gives off a certain level of arrogance. You're better than that. If you see that my logic is flawed just contest it with logic alone. Leave contemporary internet logistics out of it. I'll take you more seriously and so will others.
I use B2 a lot to check but, B1 if you’re at max range. I’ve been finding myself using B2 a lot more and then zoning so that I can open them up for trying to come in.
My sincerest apologies I didn't mean anything with it, just a life long habit of mine with "chat".

What I rly mean is chars can do b14 confirm for scorpion, b32 for sub etc. D1 etc are the safer options but doesn't get rewards. I'm sure you understand my pov.
Is b11+3 confirmable? If it is (even if hard?) I wasn't aware of it and then I'm OK with just fixed kbs.
Lastly, my wins all come from correct spacing with noob (or just beating bad players), but my loses come for stuff like jc/liu/sub pressure which A. Is too early to deal him properly and B. Is there to use and is very rewarding.
And C. Feelsbadman
Thoughts?
Actually B11+3 kinda has an option select to it, where if you input DU after it’ll only come out on hit. So you can literally just type B11+3 DU on block. Just make sure you’re at max range, otherwise it’s not safe.
 

Dante

Noob
Actually B11+3 kinda has an option select to it, where if you input DU after it’ll only come out on hit. So you can literally just type B11+3 DU on block. Just make sure you’re at max range, otherwise it’s not safe.
Yeah I'm aware of this buts it's not what I'm talking about. I mean doing b1 and be able to confirm from there
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
It’s live on his Twitch. But yeah, I definitely agree that he’s not broken. Fox is just going off of his experiences and some MU knowledge. Thought I’d share what he said here though, since Noob obviously doesn’t need any help.
Well...

Maybe NOOB himself doesn't need help.. kinda.

But a general fix to krushing blows in all of the characters in the game would be a huge ass buff for him too.

There are only a certain couples of time that I remember I ever got a b3 KB against actual solid players. Someone in here said it's a remnant of when his running man was an OH.

B1, 1+3 KB is good. I wouldn't change anything.

D2 KB is good.

Throw KB is HELLA good. Works on both sides. There are characters that can use it only on one side.

Running man KB... WACK. Running man move overall... WACK. Either make it like it was supposed to be an OH or keep it mid but make it usable (less recovery or less startup, SOMETHING, ANYTHING).

General fixes I'd say. Noob is good.
 
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Hitoshura

Head Cage
My sincerest apologies I didn't mean anything with it, just a life long habit of mine with "chat".

What I rly mean is chars can do b14 confirm for scorpion, b32 for sub etc. D1 etc are the safer options but doesn't get rewards. I'm sure you understand my pov.
Is b11+3 confirmable? If it is (even if hard?) I wasn't aware of it and then I'm OK with just fixed kbs.

Lastly, my wins all come from correct spacing with noob (or just beating bad players), but my loses come for stuff like jc/liu/sub pressure which A. Is too early to deal him properly and B. Is there to use and is very rewarding.
And C. Feelsbadman
Thoughts?
No need to apologize. I'm not offended by any means. I just want people to be civil with one another is all. At least try to be as civil as possible. I know it's hard to always be civil if things get heated. I'm not proclaiming you got heated with me. I'm just stating overall.

If anything, I should be apologizing to the board for being somewhat dogmatic about Noob on here. I do read the comments, but sometimes I just let my ideas of the character go uncontested and begin to make noise. I should be more willing to look into some of the issues people have with him. I will admit though that some ideas on here are a bit farfetched.

I see your perspective on it and it does hold weight. I do notice in those matchups that b1, 1+3 can be punished. I tested them in practice mode last night and online with some training buddies. Noob's neutral game became somewhat harder because of it. I guess prior to last night I was getting away with murder.

I started using b2 more often to check the opponent than b1 due to how negative the following up was in certain matchups and it's short range overall. I also throw out b3 a good amount because some people always forget to watch their feet.

I feel as though Sub-Zero isn't that bad of a matchup in comparison to Liu Kang, Jade, Skarlet, etc. Maybe I'm also getting away with murder there, too.

Did anyone see Sonic's "tier" list. Sub-Zero was at the bottom, unless the image I was looking at was a fake.
 
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Dante

Noob
Yeah sub bot 4 isn't right. I bet my soul that he is top 5(secretly 3) potential.

B3 is awesome but again lacks the option to make it safe, since it isn't confirmable this again hurts. Again, it's too early still and ppl don't deal with ghostball properly and we indeed get away with murder. In time they will duck it 100% for a full punish. Just my thoughts

I literally do f22 from almost max range and then backdash to see what they do and if a see a button I b3 tele/ghost. I have alot of success with that cause most move don't reach you here
 

AbeW

Noob
Alright I think it's clear at this point that our boi Nob Saibot isn't very good, it would be a very serious overstatement to even call him viable.

Character has no 50/50s, below average zoning and below average space control. Practically nothing. He doesn't even have any BF1 set ups for the seeing ass variation. NRS please help this joke of a character!
Just play a lot of neutral neutral footsie footsie with Bi Haaan's blackazz. You will be alright. No buffs. In fact, all characters should be nerfed waaay more such that more neutral neutral footsie footsie comes alive from all the talented fighters
 

Saltea Mike

ROG Mike
Premium Supporter
Yeah sub bot 4 isn't right. I bet my soul that he is top 5(secretly 3) potential.

B3 is awesome but again lacks the option to make it safe, since it isn't confirmable this again hurts. Again, it's too early still and ppl don't deal with ghostball properly and we indeed get away with murder. In time they will duck it 100% for a full punish. Just my thoughts

I literally do f22 from almost max range and then backdash to see what they do and if a see a button I b3 tele/ghost. I have alot of success with that cause most move don't reach you here
I do the same with F22.

In the match-ups that B1, 1+3 can't be punished I sometimes immidietely throw out B1, 1+3 after a F22 if i'm far enough. Works like a charm.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Is he just saying what characters are best based off of impressions or does he have actual matchups numbers with everyone? It's definitely not the latter because it's too damn early for that.
I watched the stream in its entirety. There was no talk about match ups so the tier list was more or less about which characters have the best tools.

Sonic Fox suggested using less of b+1,1+3 and more of 2,1,2, which can punish throw escapes after d+1 or d+3 hits.

I think Noob is mid tier. Possibly high mid tier. I feel like I have to play an elaborate footsies game to have a chance of winning, but when I use Scorpion, I do whatever I wish and winning is much easier. Something seems missing. Maybe the zoning and krushing blows are not good enough. Or maybe the S tier characters are simply much better than all the others.
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
I watched the stream in its entirety. There was no talk about match ups so the tier list was more or less about which characters have the best tools.

Sonic Fox suggested using less of b+1,1+3 and more of 2,1,2, which can punish throw escapes after d+1 or d+3 hits.

I think Noob is mid tier. Possibly high mid tier. I feel like I have to play an elaborate footsies game to have a chance of winning, but when I use Scorpion, I do whatever I wish and winning is much easier. Something seems missing. Maybe the zoning and krushing blows are not good enough. Or maybe the S tier characters are simply much better than all the others.
I'd say the latter. I feel a lot of characters have to do what Noob does to win while a select few have an easier time winning because their tools kit is too damn good. It's as though a lot of that aren't top tier play the way the game is meant to be played.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I only assumed you could because you could confirm in other fighters. I'm at work and can't test this out.
Same, I am going to test it after work but I had tried a bit before and i dont think my brain works that quickly personally. I can do scorpion b14 into either 3 on block or ex teleport on hit but that is about as tight of a confirm that I can be consistent with and that confirm window is way bigger than just noobs b1