Noob Sailboat needs help

[Lt. Boxy Angelman]

This thread is brutal.

But it is far from baseless.

Looking at the game in the long term...
On the one hand, as it stands now, Noob in either variation feels like he's going to end up just like he was in MK9, better damage be damned: why choose him when other options are available?
But on the other hand...it's May. Nothing ever stays the same in NRS games. I'm certain someone inside out balance leap will be taken over the course of time that'll make this a totally different discussion.

I am Box, these are my words.

Bread.

 

[Metzos]

I agree with your point about the lack of hurtboxes. b+1,1+3 leads to lots of damage and a reset. However, a top tier character like Geras punishes b+1,1+3 for 31% the first time and 14% every other time. If Noob is afraid to do b+1,1+3, as Honey Bee and Waz were at the Summit, you remove one of the character's best tools out of the equation. b+2 and f+4 are very good normal attacks, but Noob is not killing you with them. They cannot be special canceled. They lead to nothing but full screen knockdowns, where you except Noob to have an advantage, yet he does not, which brings me to your comment about space control.

If by "really good space control" you are strictly referring to the mid range, I agree with you again. If you are referring to any other range, I disagree. Yesterday and today we saw Noob getting out-zoned by Geras and Sonya. I assure you Noob also gets out-zoned by Erron Black, Scorpion, Sub Zero, and possibly other characters. For an advertised "premier zoning character", Noob's zoning is severely lacking. So if I am playing Scorpion against Noob, for example, and I get hit by b+2 or f+4, I could not care less. I can block and easily react and punish everything Noob does. The teleport controls the pace of the match at this range. The same is true for Geras and the sand trap.

Before you decide to post "Those characters are top tier, though!", well, they are the most common characters in a competitive environment.

Well ofc, i was referring to mid range. Noob is not like he was in MK9 for sure. When i mentioned spacing with Noob i was referring to him spacing with normals mostly. So yeah, mid range.

Regarding b2 and f4. The goal of these moves is to reset the footsies game, not to kill with them. You also forgot b3xxghostball. B3 alone can condition the opponent to start jumping and thats where d2, up knee and f3 come into play.

Also i dont see anyone mentioning f2 in terms of whiff punishing normals and specials, which is another great normal string.

Combine all those things and Noob is not an easy character to break into.

I wont and you know that but if i m losing to the top 5 of the game atm, that doesnt make him a bad character or a character presented in this thread. I mean there are people in here who want him to have 50/50s for christ sake! I wrote you above in my previous post. I dont think Noob is above the current top 5 of the game atm. Is he top 10? Yes he is. That is how i feel atm.

Post edited.

 

[Dante]

B3 into ghostball when done at sweep range is safe against pretty much everyone. Up close ofc is not safe. I was referring to the distance b3 should be used not up close.

Its not safe at any range, cause its a high and doesnt jail. Or you could say its safe month1 where ppl dont know shit
f2 string is great but starts high and doesnt lead to much dmg outside of corner (you can f2 tele tho)

 

[Metzos]

Its not safe at any range, cause its a high and doesnt jail. Or you could say its safe month1 where ppl dont know shit
f2 string is great but starts high and doesnt lead to much dmg outside of corner (you can f2 tele tho)

Who can punish it then? Do you know? I cant lab it right now but i havent been punished whenever i used it. And i repeat, using this at sweep range or further. I highly doubt it doesnt jail while canceling it off a normal, but i cant lab it atm. And even if it doesnt Noob recovers so fast that its virtually unpunishable from that range.

Post edited.

 

[ColdBoreMK23]

I don't believe a character with easy 400+ damage, normals that barely leave any hurtboxes, a ~10f mid that goes backwards, probably the best D3/D4 in the game, a great fatal blow etc is any lower than high mid.

I've been playing Nikolas's/Metzos's Noobs since day 1, and while Kotal personally gets absolutely destroyed in the MU, the char has a lot going for him in the footsie game.

edit: Also, GL having reasonable discussion that doesn't downplay the player's own char and upplay others on TYM, there's a post on the same page about having to be "careful" and "spacing being on point" with Noob's footsie tools against Kano and Johnny....

 

[llabslb]

Yes Noob has mediocre space control but so does everyone else. There's nothing special about the character, it's just a case of people being incredibly incapable of playing against the character because it's early days.

 

[llabslb]

Excuse me Mr forum general Eldriken. If you're going to throw shade at me then don't be surprised to receive anything back. You literally talked hot shit without providing any substance, as soon as I fire back you delete my post? Ayyytt

 

[Eldriken]

Excuse me Mr forum general Eldriken. If you're going to throw shade at me then don't be surprised to receive anything back. You literally talked hot shit without providing any substance, as soon as I fire back you delete my post? Ayyytt

I didn't talk hot shit about anything. I simply stated that demanding 50/50s shows a lack of effort for your wins. Then you for whatever reason decided to try and bring my character choices into play as if it's relevant to anything at all.

 

[llabslb]

I didn't talk hot shit about anything. I simply stated that demanding 50/50s shows a lack of effort for your wins. Then you for whatever reason decided to try and bring my character choices into play as if it's relevant to anything at all.

It would be nice for him to be buffed by improving his overall moveset. But by looking at the state of the game it would be more of an inconvenience to do that. I've said this before.

 

[SaSSolino]

@Eldriken He might be talking nonsense about the game, but you deleting his post because he replied to you (or mine because I quoted him) is pretty damn sad.

If you're going to talk shit, expect people to talk shit in return, and don't hide behind an admin status.

ps: when you delete a post, even when you do so for the right reasons, it's polite to send the user a notification with your reasons for doing so. I know you have it in your admin tools.

 

[Moms4lif3]

I don’t play noob but he seems quite fine to me. I can see him struggling in MUs where he can’t use his low-hook-thingy string, because that’s probably his best normal. But other than that???

Most top players agree he’s pretty solid, maybe he could be a little safer, but I don’t think he screams „I need buffs“ at all!

 

[llabslb]

@Eldriken He might be talking nonsense about the game, but you deleting his post because he replied to you (or mine because I quoted him) was pretty damn sad.

If you're going to talk shit, expect people to talk shit in return, and don't hide behind an admin status.

ps: when you delete a post, even when you do so for the right reasons, it's polite to send the user a notification with your reasons for doing so. I know you have it in your admin tools.

Yh it kinda defeated the point of discussion but that's enough derailment lol

 

[Strike80]

In compare to Erron Blac, Geras sure Noob Saibot is poor.
But after comparing him to average MK11 character he looks very good.

 

[fr stack]

Fix his upknee issues. Also how about making b1 1+3 special cancellable on block? Any takers?

 

[MURK]

Fix the frames of his slide and actually make it the zoning variation as intended. Allow his slide to go full screen, give it a faster start up, etc...

His slide variation doesn't seem to serve a purpose imo

 

[ienjoywinning]

If you have to have 50/50s to win, the problem isn't the character, it's you.

If you can't win unless you make your opponent guess the entire time, level up.

Talk about wanting to win for minimal effort.

Theres absolutely nothing wrong with wanting/needing 50/50s to win. Each person has their own preferred playstyle whether or not its braindead doesn't matter. Asking for characters to have mix is generally fine. Personally I think he needs buffs to his space control but you dont see me trying to shame people who ask for mix lol. Atleast ask for his reasoning instead of showing up and pretending you're hot stuff talking him down like that. It's a discussion atleast make your point. Also he never alluded to needing mix to win where youd make that assumption from? Asking for buffs for your main now means relying on 50/50s to win?

 

[ienjoywinning]

I don’t even know where to begin to argue with someone who can ask for 50/50s and call noobs space control bad and keep a straight face while doing it.

Noob has shitty space control convince me otherwise. All his clone attacks go away on trades and certain characters can for some reason just bypass them completely (like kabal can nomad dash through your clone) he'll just lose all trades to that and even gets zoned out by characters like kang who arent even supposed to excel in zoning. Forceballs are decent. But the a good amount of the cast still shit on him because it's a high and does not knockdown. His B1 1+3 is great for keep away until you realise its -16 on block and a large part of the cast can punish it and the second half can just dash up and do whatever they want.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

This thread sucks.

 

[SxS626]

What's with this irrational hate for mix ups lmao. What caused this mass delusion?

how about fighting game experience outside of a coin flip simulator with extra buttons aka mkx? it's never ceases to amaze me how NRS effectively created this easy mode culture of "im good at the game because you guessed wrong", that mk fans so boldly defend. this is not how fighting games are meant to be played. sure, noob is not the best but giving him overheads isn't the best option. you're just upset because noob isn't busted

 

[Hitoshura]

Noob is really strong Dave. You just need to be on point with your spacing and footsies. His down pokes are excellent. He has the best punishes in the game imo, his hurtbox is non existant and his control spacing is really good if you play him as a whiff punisher. His only issue imo is that his b3 and clone KB's conditions need a small rework.

Is he on the current top5's lvl? No. Is he outside of the top 5? For sure. Punishing something with 40% dmg off a S1 is not something everyone in the roster has. AAring with f3 to over 30% dmg into a restand is godlike.

P.S: I see no one is talking about his b2. Probably one of the best whiff punisher normals in the game, plus it can be used as an AA as well if you re not comfortable using f3 or up knee. Also lol at the people saying that his b3 1+3 needs to be canceled safely. Just do b3xxghostball and gg you are safe.

Besides the couple of issues with his KB's,Noob is fine atm.

Thank you, @Metzos!

His b2 is a great anti air and spacing tool that sends the opponent flying! This tool comes especially in handy in matchups against characters where you want to keep them at a certain distance away from you.
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Im going to keep it 200% with everyone. This downplaying of Noob needs to stop. He is a great character that is predicated on good fundamentals. So far his matchups don't look too bad at all. What we got in this game is aeons better than what we had in MK9, so all these conplains about "needing" mixups is just absurd!

If anyone needs changes it's Erron Black, Geras, Sonya Blade, Scorpion, and maybe Sub-Zero; however, they don't need drastic changes. They just need some small changes that will get ride of some of their power while still making them great characters. Minus those who are considered "bottom tier", which is absurd statment since the game hasn't been out for a month yet and we have everyone and their dead relatives constructing competitive tier lists, and the before mentioned characters, the rest of the cast is fine. The game is balanced. We need to let the game marinated before we start making such drastic changes that will prematurely kill this game.

Also, this is something that can be discussed in the general discussion thread that is stickied at the top of the Noob Saibot threads page. Maybe some people should start reading the stickied threads before making a new one. You'll find that most bases have been covered for topics of conversation.

@Espio or @Juggs, could either of you close this thread. It looks like things may get out of hand.

 

[llabslb]

Thank you, @Metzos!

His b2 is a great anti air and spacing tool that sends the opponent flying! This tool comes especially in handy in matchups against characters where you want to keep them at a certain distance away from you.
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Im going to keep it 200% with everyone. This downplaying of Noob needs to stop. He is a great character that is predicated on good fundamentals. So far his matchups don't look too bad at all. What we got in this game is aeons better than what we had in MK9, so all these conplains about "needing" mixups is just absurd!

If anyone needs changes it's Erron Black, Geras, Sonya Blade, Scorpion, and maybe Sub-Zero; however, they don't need drastic changes. They just need some small changes that will get ride of some of their power while still making them great characters. Minus those who are considered "bottom tier", which is absurd atatment since the game hasn't been out for a month yet and we have everyone and their dead relatives constructing competitive tier lists, and the before mentioned characters the rest of the cast is fine. The game is balanced. We need to let the game marinated before we start making such drastic changes that will prematurely kill this game.

Also, this is something that can be discussed in the general discussion thread that is stickied at the top of the Noob Saibot threads page. Maybe some people should start reading the stickied threads before making a new one. You'll find that most bases have been covered for topics of conversation.

@Espio or @Juggs, could either of you close this thread. It looks like things may get out of hand.

Yes B2 is good tripguard but it is no saving grace. You can't expect to have the dream game plan of landing B2 much like in the scenarios you mentioned and then expect to reliably control space. This all is incredibly underwhelming when in comparison to the rest of the cast.

 

[Hitoshura]

Yes B2 is good tripguard but it is no saving grace. You can't expect to have the dream game plan of landing B2 much like in the scenarios you mentioned and then expect to reliably control space. This all is incredibly underwhelming when in comparison to the rest of the cast.

It's called conditioning your opponent. It's a better anti-air, but does lose to j3's/4's if timed wrong.

Matches are spontaneous and anything can happen. You're given tools to take control of the spontaneity and have it the match in your favor. Its requires one to be on their toes while thinking about all possible outcomes at every given second of a match.

With all due respect you're down playing the character. You just need more practice.

 

[llabslb]

It's called conditioning your opponent. It's a better anti-air, but does lose to j3's/4's if timed wrong.

Matches are spontaneous and anything can happen. You're given tools to take control of the spontaneity and have it the match in your favor. Its requires one to be on their toes while thinking about all possible outcomes at every given second of a match.

With all due respect you're down playing the character. You just need more practice.

I can copy and paste this and apply it to any discussion. This is such generic advice and you've totally missed the point.

 

[M2Dave]

Yes B2 is good tripguard but it is no saving grace. You can't expect to have the dream game plan of landing B2 much like in the scenarios you mentioned and then expect to reliably control space. This all is incredibly underwhelming when in comparison to the rest of the cast.

b+2 is a very good normal attack. It would be great if Noob were a functional zoning character. So you hit b+2 and knock down Geras full screen away. Congratulations! You are rewarded with having to approach him because sand trap ignores all your projectiles. Now you have to close the gap on a character who is better than you are up close and does as much damage as you do.

I agree with @Metzos and dislike a small minority of Noob players asking for 50/50 mix ups. The character was promoted as a "premier zoning character", not a mix up character. If you want 50/50 mix ups, Sub Zero is your guy.

 

[Metzos]

b+2 is a very good normal attack. It would be great if Noob were a functional zoning character. So you hit b+2 and knock down Geras full screen away. Congratulations! You are rewarded with having to approach him because sand trap ignores all your projectiles. Now you have to close the gap on a character who is better than you are up close and does as much damage as you do.

I agree with @Metzos and dislike a small minority of Noob players asking for 50/50 mix ups. The character was promoted as a "premier zoning character", not a mix up character. If you want 50/50 mix ups, Sub Zero is your guy.

You just answered your own question there dave. Now Geras has to come to you. Thats what Noob wants against rushdown characters.

And no, Geras does not deal the same dmg as Noob. Noob deals 40%+ dmg with 1 bar, while Geras deals around 35% dmg with 1 bar in midscreen.

Regarding 50/50s Noobs does not need them.