Match-up Discussion Nightwing Matchup Discussion

[TakeAChance]

My extremely limited experience with the matchup so far indicates that if you get even remotely close to in against zod, you will have no trouble locking him down...at all.

Trouble is getting in. It's similar to green lantern. Get in while you have the staff out, and you eat him alive...the trouble is just getting in.

 

[Miss Kanzuki]

In my experience of NW mirrors, with one using Escrima and the other Staff, the mu is 6-4 Staff.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Fuck Hawkgirl. I don't even enjoy winning against that fucking bitch character.

 

[Chongo]

What's the general thought on the Raven MU? I feel like it's 5-5, but I'd like your guys thoughts.

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

I say vs raven without trait its 6-4 in NW favor only because Raven has no real get off me besides maybe soul crush, as long as nightwing can keep the pressure w staff and make good reads, I think its all good. The second trait gets activated tho, I feel it becomes 4-6 in ravens favor as long as it was a safe activation and Nightwing isnt already in there. I say this because as soon as nightwing attempts to move, he can get grabbed fullscreen and comboed, so staff becomes virtually worthless unless you've been pressuring her (and if that's the case, she wouldn't get a chance to trait up) If raven is in her trait, block and react to teleports w d2 (escrima usually trades, but a well timed staff d2 wins 95% of the time, worse case being a trade in your favor). Hope that helps.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

My matchups by the numbers:

Aquaman: 6-4 Aquaman
Ares: 5-5
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 6-4 Batgirl
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 7-3 Black Adam
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 8-2 Cyborg
Deathstroke: 5-5
Doomsday: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 8-2 Green Lantern
Harley Quinn: 6-4 Harley
Hawkgirl: 8-2 Hawkgirl
The Joker: ???
Killer Frost: 6-4 Frost
Luthor: 7-3 Nightwing
Lobo: ???
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: ??? Scorpion?
Shazam: ???
Sinestro: 7-3 Sinestro 9-1 with trait
Solomon Grundy: 6-4 Grundy
Superman: 7-3 Superman
Wonder Woman: 6-4 WW
Zod: 6-4 Zod

Tell me why I'm wrong

 

[Chongo]

My matchups by the numbers:

Aquaman: 5-5 gonna get blown up for this
Ares: 5-5
Bane: 5-5 6-4
Batgirl: 6-4 Batgirl
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 6-4 Black Adam
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 5-5
Deathstroke: 6-4
Doomsday: 6-4
Flash: 5-5 I'm hesitant to call this even, feels like Flash favor now tbh.
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 6-4 Green Lantern
Harley Quinn: I shouldn't be allowed to comment
Hawkgirl: 9-1 Hawkgirl
The Joker: ???
Killer Frost: 6-4 Frost
Luthor: 7-3 Nightwing
Lobo: ??? probably something around 6-4 nw
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: 6-4 NW after he got destroyed
Shazam: ??? 6-4 NW
Sinestro: 6-4 Sinestro
Solomon Grundy: 5-5 Grundy
Superman: 6-4? Superman
Wonder Woman: 6-4 WW
Zod: 6-4 Nightwing

Tell me why I'm wrong

Changes are in red.


If you don't agree with my opinion (which you should, because I'm right dawg, hold my boulders) I'll expand more.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

I was being optimistic. The Hawkgirl I play against regularly gives me a lot of chances. He's learning to be more and more lame, and as a result I ragequit on him occasionally by pulling the plug on my stick and ranting something along the lines of, "I want to be able to turn my brain off, press the fucking meter burn button and get in completely free like the rest of the fucking cast." I feel ike an asshole raging over video games. But holy shit this matchup is fucking miserable.

At first I wanted the whoever balances the game to come to some means of physical harm. By stubbing his toe somewhere or maybe a root canal gone wrong. Now? Oh now, I just want him to play the Nightwing vs Hawkgirl matchup for six fucking hours. After enough time he'll do more harm to himself than anyone could fucking wish on him.

 

[Chongo]

I was being optimistic. The Hawkgirl I play against regularly gives me a lot of chances. He's learning to be more and more lame, and as a result I ragequit on him occasionally by pulling the plug on my stick and ranting something along the lines of, "I want to be able to turn my brain off, press the fucking meter burn button and get in completely free like the rest of the fucking cast." I feel ike an asshole raging over video games. But holy shit this matchup is fucking miserable.

At first I wanted the whoever balances the game to come to some means of physical harm. By stubbing his toe somewhere or maybe a root canal gone wrong. Now? Oh now, I just want him to play the Nightwing vs Hawkgirl matchup for six fucking hours. After enough time he'll do more harm to himself than anyone could fucking wish on him.

The best bet is to try and get her to whiff a mace by baiting her then catching her with a j2. Most of her stuff is safe on block but death on whiff.

Or pick Batgirl.

Make the choice Neo.

I also updated my earlier post.

 

[AK Gookus]

I have no shame, I joined the Batgirl army specifically for Dick's horrible match ups.

 

[Saitsu]

You guys do realize that if those numbers are correct (which honestly for the most part I don't agree with) then Nightwing is one of the worst characters in the game right?

 

[Chongo]

You guys do realize that if those numbers are correct (which honestly for the most part I don't agree with) then Nightwing is one of the worst characters in the game right?

I thought he was trolling with the 7-3s.

 

[NightwingDayZero]

You guys do realize that if those numbers are correct (which honestly for the most part I don't agree with) then Nightwing is one of the worst characters in the game right?

Not one of the worst, but I do believe that his options are cut tremendously short by the top tiers.

I thought he was trolling with the 7-3s.

I ended my post with "Tell me why I am wrong." I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about these numbers. I regularly session with Top 8/Top 16 level competitors. These are my experiences. These are my opinions.

Tell me I'm playing the MU wrong. I'm looking to open dialogue and maybe get some discussion going.

 

[Saitsu]

Not one of the worst, but I do believe that his options are cut tremendously short by the top tiers.



I ended my post with "Tell me why I am wrong." I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about these numbers. I regularly session with Top 8/Top 16 level competitors. These are my experiences. These are my opinions.

Tell me I'm playing the MU wrong. I'm looking to open dialogue and maybe get some discussion going.

No, he WOULD be one of the worst. This is a tremendously MU based game. If you only win a grand total of one MU in the game, against an extremely rare character, then you're not any good. By the numbers you put up Nightwing would rank as one of the worst outright.

And I will, just not tonight as it's almost 5 AM and I'd like to sleep. I'll try to respond in kind tomorrow.

 

[TrulyAmiracle]

Hawkgirl is slightly in HG's favor imo, 5.5-4.5 just coz if im flying usually he'll have to take risks to get in, but you still have options and alot of things you can do.

Escrima j3 (the dropkick) is really quick and stays out for a million years, more often than not it'll beat out hg's options in the air and her anti-airs if you're jumping in. You can also discourage hg from trying to d2 you by doing the wing dings as it'll beat the d2, from my exp hg cant punish that unless she's point blank range. Personally i say the best thing is keeping your distance and wingdinging is really good as she can beat that shit or punish it unless she's in d1 range.
Nw's dash is fast so if she's in the air and you can get a right read just dash to get close enough and you can do the flip (the overhead thing) and it'll smack her down even at max height.

In staff stance you do j.1 but its risky, and the flying greyson can hit her at max height but it depends on the stage (some stages have higher cielings), if you're close enough in staff you easily outrange everything she does and give her really hard time in the corner.

When im back home i can post footage of me and my friend's nw as we fight regularly in our weekly's finals and you can see what the options for both sides.

 

[Chongo]

Not one of the worst, but I do believe that his options are cut tremendously short by the top tiers.



I ended my post with "Tell me why I am wrong." I'm interested in hearing what people have to say about these numbers. I regularly session with Top 8/Top 16 level competitors. These are my experiences. These are my opinions.

Tell me I'm playing the MU wrong. I'm looking to open dialogue and maybe get some discussion going.

Bane: Can't venom charge through wingdings, Nightwings hella faster, but then again NW cannot avoid charge while in staff due to pathetic baby jumps. If I had to give someone the advantage, it's NW.

Scorpion: Having been nerfed to oblivion, I feel this MU is in Scorps favor. Scorp has no mobility, so he has trouble keeping NW off of him. Can't pushblock because of his need for meter, and the most he is doing if he lands a MB tele is around 25% for two bars. Cannot wakeup as they are all punishable, NW outdamages him, outzones him, out footsies him, etc.

Grundy: NW has a great checking tool with wingdings, Grundy has issues with diagonal air projectiles. Doing a staff spin on Grundy's wakeup will beat Walking Corpse, only option at that point is cleaver, which is unsafe on block regularly. For some reason he can duck MB staff spin and he outdamages us. It just feels like the first character to make a mistake loses.


I'll update more, been awake for fucking ever and I'm falling asleep right now.

Also disclaimer: I may or may not be wrong. I've just started actually taking this game seriously and I'm not claiming to know his definite MU's, and neither are you. I've seen you play, you have an excellent NW, I didn't mean to make it sound like I was insulting you. If I'm regarded as right, cool, if not then don't listen to me lol.

 

[Hanzer0]

Lots of downplaying in this thread right now.

I guess why not if all the other character forums do it.

Nightwing bottom 5!

 

[SilverKeyMan]

The only match-ups I feel comfortable commenting on. Feel free to assume that I think all other match-ups are 5-5, or I don't have enough experience to determine otherwise.

Deathstroke: 6-4 Nightwing
Green Lantern: 6-4 Green Lantern
Hawkgirl: 7-3 Hawkgirl
Luthor: 6-4 Nightwing
Sinestro: 6-4 Sinestro
Solomon Grundy: 7-3 Nightwing
Superman: 6-4 Superman

Unfortunately (my) Nightwing struggles against Green Lantern, Sinestro, and Superman, so I get destroyed often online. However Grundy is pretty damn free to me. Perhaps I'm only playing bad Grundys.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Aquaman: 6-4 Aquaman
Ares: 5-5
Bane: 5-5
Batgirl: 6-4 Batgirl
Batman: 5-5
Black Adam: 7-3 Black Adam
Catwoman: 5-5
Cyborg: 8-2 Cyborg
Deathstroke: 5-5
Doomsday: 5-5
Flash: 5-5
Green Arrow: 5-5
Green Lantern: 8-2 Green Lantern
Harley Quinn: 6-4 Harley
Hawkgirl: 8-2 Hawkgirl
The Joker: ???
Killer Frost: 6-4 Frost
Luthor: 7-3 Nightwing
Lobo: ???
Nightwing: 5-5
Raven: 5-5
Scorpion: ??? Scorpion?
Shazam: ???
Sinestro: 7-3 Sinestro 9-1 with trait
Solomon Grundy: 6-4 Grundy
Superman: 7-3 Superman
Wonder Woman: 6-4 WW
Zod: 6-4 Zod

You're wrong because this game isn't unbalanced enough to have 9-1 and 8-2 matchups. I hesitate to say that 7-3 matchups exist, but there's probably only like 4 of those in total.

The matchups that you have listed as disadvantage are:

-Aquaman
-Batgirl
-BA
-Cyborg
-GL
-Harley
-HG
-Frost
-Sinestro
-Grundy
-Supes
-WW
-Zod

-Many of these matchups are just waiting games. Cyborg, GL, Zod, and Sinestro you will all walk on once you are in. Who cares how long it takes.
-Aquaman isn't a bad MU either, you're just getting outplayed. At worst it's 5-5.
-HG isn't as terrible as people make it out to be. I used to dread the matchup until I played it more. Now it's just another matchup. 6-4 or like EB said, like 5.5-4.5 HG.
-Frost and Grundy I've personally never had problems with. Again, at worst 5-5.
-BA, play patient. Block high. You'll be fine.
-Batgirl, HQ, and Supes are all disadvantage imo, but more than beatable. Certainly not 7-3 Supes.
-WW is a 5-5 simply because it's a battle of who understands their tools better and when to be in which stance. That matchup is so interesting to play.

I hate to be like this, but you need to step up your game. Think more, improve your fundamentals. There is nothing wrong with this character, there's just a ton of holes in your game if you think MUs are that lopsided. All the "tech" in the world won't save you if you can't make reads, won't block, whatever.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[NightwingDayZero]

You're wrong because this game isn't unbalanced enough to have 9-1 and 8-2 matchups. I hesitate to say that 7-3 matchups exist, but there's probably only like 4 of those in total.

The matchups that you have listed as disadvantage are:

-Aquaman
-Batgirl
-BA
-Cyborg
-GL
-Harley
-HG
-Frost
-Sinestro
-Grundy
-Supes
-WW
-Zod

-Many of these matchups are just waiting games. Cyborg, GL, Zod, and Sinestro you will all walk on once you are in. Who cares how long it takes.
-Aquaman isn't a bad MU either, you're just getting outplayed. At worst it's 5-5.
-HG isn't as terrible as people make it out to be. I used to dread the matchup until I played it more. Now it's just another matchup. 6-4 or like EB said, like 5.5-4.5 HG.
-Frost and Grundy I've personally never had problems with. Again, at worst 5-5.
-BA, play patient. Block high. You'll be fine.
-Batgirl, HQ, and Supes are all disadvantage imo, but more than beatable. Certainly not 7-3 Supes.
-WW is a 5-5 simply because it's a battle of who understands their tools better and when to be in which stance. That matchup is so interesting to play.

I hate to be like this, but you need to step up your game. Think more, improve your fundamentals. There is nothing wrong with this character, there's just a ton of holes in your game if you think MUs are that lopsided. All the "tech" in the world won't save you if you can't make reads, won't block, whatever.

Sent from the Batcave

Do you have any gameplay I could watch? I'm interested to see how it is you deal with these matchups differently than myself.

The advice you just gave me was, "play better." Show me how. How do you deal with Backdash Adam? I beat a very, very good Hawkgirl regularly. He may take 1 game out of 5. The matchup however, is heavily slanted. Who's Aquaman are you playing? Aquaman whose active frames on all his normals determine so heavily how footsies are played. Aquaman who almost entirely nullifies Escrima off of anything but a knockdown situation. His constant meter advantage from MB trident rush. How do you deal with a zip line heavy Cyborg? How do you cross up Sinestro mid screen? How do you get around a zoning heavy supes who recognizes our counter zoning options? Who's GL are you playing that "be patient" is an option? I run the clock down to ~5 seconds against my local GL almost every match. I quite literally can not be any more patient in this MU.

Give me some tools, how do you work around these character's strengths without looking to "try harder" as the solution? What tools does Nightwing have that I'm not using or not using appropriately to make these matchups look better?

I have been playing GL/Aquaman for ~5-6hrs a day every day for the last 2 months. The MUs have actually become worse over time. Show me I'm wrong.

 

[Cosmic_Castaway]

Do you have any gameplay I could watch? I'm interested to see how it is you deal with these matchups differently than myself.

The advice you just gave me was, "play better." Show me how. How do you deal with Backdash Adam? I beat a very, very good Hawkgirl regularly. He may take 1 game out of 5. The matchup however, is heavily slanted. Who's Aquaman are you playing? Aquaman whose active frames on all his normals determine so heavily how footsies are played. Aquaman who almost entirely nullifies Escrima off of anything but a knockdown situation. His constant meter advantage from MB trident rush. How do you deal with a zip line heavy Cyborg? How do you cross up Sinestro mid screen? How do you get around a zoning heavy supes who recognizes our counter zoning options? Who's GL are you playing that "be patient" is an option? I run the clock down to ~5 seconds against my local GL almost every match. I quite literally can not be any more patient in this MU.

Give me some tools, how do you work around these character's strengths without looking to "try harder" as the solution? What tools does Nightwing have that I'm not using or not using appropriately to make these matchups look better?

I have been playing GL/Aquaman for ~5-6hrs a day every day for the last 2 months. The MUs have actually become worse over time. Show me I'm wrong.

Unfortunately no, I don't. But I will direct you to some LulzLou play when I get home. Iirc he was a great example of how to deal with Cyborg. Can't remember the other characters he played against, but I'll link those too. Why not.

I've played a slew of Aquamen and it basically just comes down to me outplaying them at their own game. You can go toe-to-toe with him in Staff. Make him respect your space. He's really stiff overall too, just look at how Tom plays him. Look at what REO did at ECT to Tom's Aquaman with Staff stance (i.e. He made Aquaman come to him, out-zoned him, etc.). Only reason he lost is because he doesn't have a NW outside of Staff.

I already told you how to deal with Black Adam too. You block high and don't do anything retarded. You let them make the mistake first, or you force a mistake.

Tbh I haven't played the Sinestro matchup in forever either because our local one dropped him for Doomsday.

While my response does essentially amount to "play better", yours is "my competition is better than yours so I can complain." Not exactly convincing in the MUs being lopsided. From my perspective, it just seems like you have more trouble with the players behind the characters than the characters themselves. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe your comp is leveling up while you are remaining stagnant?

And in order for me to help you, you have to tell me where the problem lies with certain characters, instead of just going, "Yeah this sucks."

You could also look at your tools on each stage. Like the dumpster in Gotham Alley and how unfuckwithable it makes NW.

Sent from the Batcave

 

[NightwingDayZero]

Are you attending EVO?

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

A lot of nightwings forget about one of his longest reaching normals which is b1(in staff of course) its so amazing and no one gives any credit to it. Perfect tool to use when closing in on zoners midscreen. Please utilize this more.

 

[The Gabriel]

Ares 7-3 Nightwing...I would win EVO if I only had to play nightwings

 

[EMPEROR PRYCE]

U think so? I can punish teleports free on Ares wakeup, 113 string interrupts Ares d1 xx 4, flip kick wake up eliminates Godsmack resets (so does flying grayson). MB godsmack from mid to full screen can be reacted to w wingdings, which can eat the armor. Just wonderin, not lookin to theory fight, Wat makes u say its 7-3 Ares? I play a high level Ares quite often and our sets are usually 5-5.