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New UMK3 Tier List? (update for 2012)

Lex

MKKhanzo: Ded is from Bulgary jahha
Glitch Jabs destroy Lao even more, you just run against him Gjabbing and he cant throw any crazy dive kicks anymore, the same for the Spin, and it isnt the all good AA ppl say.
if you just run at me just gjabbing, ill go do something else that's more productive than play a bunch of trolls. id be more than happy to give first place to someone in a 10 man tournament if you just run at me and jab. go do something else. i have several ways to make this game boring aside from just trolling with one move over and over. its up to you kids how this game is played [almost 20 years later]. taking this way too seriously for a game that tried to be tournament level for a LONG TIME
 

Mgo

Apprentice
MKK hanzo You re right, Marcelo is a beast with combos, kara jabs etc, but only plays with his cousin (Robson), play for fun, no competitive, also he plays only MKT.

nwo Man I watched Marvirrasta on many videos using Kung Lao, some videos actually are deleted, and I can say he is one of the best Kung Lao players I saw, with crazy combos or ever without spin he kick ass, he know how to use mobility properly. I know spanish, in that video you posted Kanomk2 say : "Kung Lao, that your worst character", Marvirrasta reply "Kung Lao?...I dont think so"
 

nwo

Kombatant
Miss Spin has the best Kung iv seen in my time. She has infinite on lock along with combo breakers
Yeah, I've personally witnessed it like a year or two ago. I searched "Miss Spin Kung Lao" on YouTube and I only see like 1 or 2 videos. I don't doubt you, NoDoubt.
 

Pikachu

I Pikachu while you shower.
I will say this, Arion has the best Kitana in the states. And he can fuck up anyone with her.
 

Pikachu

I Pikachu while you shower.
if you just run at me just gjabbing, ill go do something else that's more productive than play a bunch of trolls. id be more than happy to give first place to someone in a 10 man tournament if you just run at me and jab. go do something else. i have several ways to make this game boring aside from just trolling with one move over and over. its up to you kids how this game is played [almost 20 years later]. taking this way too seriously for a game that tried to be tournament level for a LONG TIME
But that is how many people play the game right now. If you don't want too I can't fault you for it. But it is in the game and people will use/abuse it. So my question is do you think glitchjabing effects the tierlists? And according to your posts you do think they effect the gameplay. So much to the point you refuse to take part.
 

MKK hanzo

Moderator
if you just run at me just gjabbing, ill go do something else that's more productive than play a bunch of trolls. id be more than happy to give first place to someone in a 10 man tournament if you just run at me and jab. go do something else. i have several ways to make this game boring aside from just trolling with one move over and over. its up to you kids how this game is played [almost 20 years later]. taking this way too seriously for a game that tried to be tournament level for a LONG TIME
Lex I already said I loved you? Isnt that enough? :D

BTW no offense but alway the "I know stuff you guys dont" blah blah. Go to a tourney man, with everyone of these ppl here and make "presence" so they know who the best is................................. Or was ;)

Internet trolling doesnt help a lot, and that "taking this way too seriously for a game that tried to be tournament level for a LONG TIME" can be said of every OG game out there that is played harcore now days (ST anyone).

Come on man. Come out, and win a tourney. With Lao please. No Gjabbin. ha.
 
Reactions: Mgo

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
I don't get what you're saying, Lex... not too long ago you were posting some Brazil MKT videos where Gjabbing was all over the place, saying good things about it. Now GJs are boring?

I personally have always liked your style and when you theorize about setups and stuff, I can tell you like to play "funky" and I like that.

But I also think you can still play like that, unconventionally, using fun/unpredictable tactics, all that while Gjabbing.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Lex, GJing is a game changer. At first, it hurt us and the UMK3 scene as a whole. But like in any fighting game where some broken bullshit is found, we found out how to beat it. Now it is just another part of the metagame. It has changed the game and the tier list along with it. One of the many reasons why Kitana is considered top tier now as she can stop it in its tracks.

O.Sagat is extremely boring to watch in ST but you only see scrubs bitch about it. The people who love the game study it and find out how to beat it.
 

REO

Undead
Now I understand why Lex thinks Kung Lao is permanently top three. He only plays the game within his own rule set that helps cater to making Kung Lao look top three.

And while Marvirrasta's Kung Lao is extremely good, it's blown away by his Kitana and Ermac.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
GJing was documented in 2007 by DreemerNJ on UMK merely as a mention of it being possible, and saying it was a silly tactic. It didn't come on strong online until 2010 because other than that one mention it was kept quiet. Imagine during the height of XBL UMK3 development if GJing was used by everyone? Now, here it is, 2012 and we're still talking about it. It's annoying for anyone who has never played against it before, I will say that much. It unquestionably shallows competitive play when it's abused, but I've never had problems playing against it, and I even had a friend who used it in MKII on SNES. The last time anyone tried it against me was LilHustlaChris at Summer Jam and he had to stop because I just didn't allow it to dictate the game pace. Again, when I say glitch jabbing, I am only referring to stationary jabbing while hold down, back and block, NOT kara jabs. Huge difference.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
if you just run at me just gjabbing, ill go do something else that's more productive than play a bunch of trolls. id be more than happy to give first place to someone in a 10 man tournament if you just run at me and jab. go do something else. i have several ways to make this game boring aside from just trolling with one move over and over. its up to you kids how this game is played [almost 20 years later]. taking this way too seriously for a game that tried to be tournament level for a LONG TIME
How about just helping make the new tier list, instead of all the extra EMO stuff, Brutha? This isn't the Lex we all know. It is what it is, man. I was against it, you were saying there were ways to beat it, now I accepted it, you're complaining about it. WTF.
Now I understand why Lex thinks Kung Lao is permanently top three. He only plays the game within his own rule set that helps cater to making Kung Lao look top three.

And while Marvirrasta's Kung Lao is extremely good, it's blown away by his Kitana and Ermac.
Do you remember when Lex was all Die-Hard Play2Win about it though? This is just weird for me to read......completely changed his mind from last year's discussion.
 

NinjaGrinder

A living, Breathing Piece of Defecating Meat
when I say glitch jabbing, I am only referring to stationary jabbing while hold down, back and block, NOT kara jabs. Huge difference.
Yeah, a lot of people refer to glitch jabs as what are really "kara runjabs"
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
To be perfectly honest, the only time Glitch Jabs are annoying are against Kabal, as in, Kabal is using them. Other than that, they're pretty manageable as long as you have experience against them.

You can speculate all you want whether GJ's dumb down the gameplay, whether you think they're boring or lame or whatever... but none of that really matters. If you want to play UMK3 at the highest level today, you're going to have to learn how to defend against them and use them, that's the bottom line. If you don't do that, you won't win against the best players who are using them.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
What is the difference between run/glitch jabs (I get those two) and kara jabs? And how do you stop them?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
What is the difference between run/glitch jabs (I get those two) and kara jabs? And how do you stop them?
A kara jab is canceling one jab with something else. This cuts the animation in half resulting in a quick recovery. It's usually canceled with block so you can jab freely and quickly block anything. A glitch jab is standing in one spot doing multiple jabs while blocking. A running kara jab is doing a kara jab while running. You can also do a running glitch jab though, but it's still technically just a GJ.
 

Enenra

Go to hell.
A kara jab is canceling one jab with something else. This cuts the animation in half resulting in a quick recovery. It's usually canceled with block so you can jab freely and quickly block anything. A glitch jab is standing in one spot doing multiple jabs while blocking. A running kara jab is doing a kara jab while running. You can also do a running glitch jab though, but it's still technically just a GJ.
Thank you. My next question is how do you stop them?
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
Thank you. My next question is how do you stop them?
For glitch jabs, not everything is fool proof, but a few examples: long range sweeps, some full screen projectiles, air projectiles are good, trying to jab outside of their jab range so it makes them block, but if they have player advantage, many times you will just get hit first and the spacing is tricky, and blatant. Also bait their counters with safe attacks and re-counter. Remember against Kabal, virtually anything you do is punishable by spin, a GJer can even spin through your long range sweep for example.
 

REO

Undead
Kitana rapes "glitch jabs" like no other.


Also can we stop calling it "glitch jabs". It's the most misleading name out there next to kara jabs. Every time I think of kara jabs, I think of giving more range to jab(s) which is not the case. I'm going to call them block jabs to keep it simple and to the point from now on.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Founder
O.G.
The reason why they are called glitch jabs is because you are blocking the entire time you are attacking, even during the collision frames which is undoubtedly an unintended side effect of being able to cancel jabs with other attacks, ie, BL, RN, HK, LK and the canceling effect that a jab has on other leads into other attacking animation.. Kara jabs are actually improperly labeled, as kara means empty. A kara jab in SF would be when you jab without the intent of making contact, and instead use the animation for another purpose. I kara jab with say, Jax for example, to buffer fireballs and dash punches. I have no intention to make contact with those jabs. Intentionally connecting Run jabs with block canceling is not really kara jabbing, but that's what everyone calls it. I have always called glitch jabs "Defense Jabs" or "Def Jabs" for short, but it never caught on. From here on, maybe we can call them Def Jabs.

Also I was just looking at the thread Jugg posted, and I saw the gamemk post with collision boxes. I've never even looked at this thread before, or at least don't remember. Those collision boxes, while relatively serving their purpose, are highly inaccurate.

Edit: Even Def Jabs can't really be called Kara jabs, because there is some level of expectation that they will hit the opponent, while another percentage of the tactic relies on errors to make better follow ups, ie, Kabal making someone jump in resulting in a free spin would be kara in concept, however, I've seen many people stand there and deliver connected jabs .