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New UMK3 Tier List? (update for 2012)

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
Can we get an update on the UMK3 tier list, or at least some discussion that may lead to possible changes? Shock Juggs Konqrr

This is the current (and old) tier list is

1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kano
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Sindel
10.) Jax
11.) Sonya
12.) Kitana
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva


Now there was nothing wrong with the old tier list for it's time because it was extremely accurate. But now that the game has evolved and block jabs are a HUGE factor, character tier spots definitely change.

The tier list I have below is just a quick example of a character moving up, and a character moving down due to impact with block jabs.

Green = Move up​
Red = Moved down​
1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Kung Lao
4.) Kitana
5.) Reptile
6.) Ermac
7.) Nightwolf
8.) Robot Smoke
9.) Kano
10.) Sindel
11.) Jax
12.) Sonya
13.) Stryker
14.) Scorpion
15.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
16.) Jade
17.) Liu Kang
18.) Sektor
19.) Classic Sub-Zero
20.) Cyrax
21.) Shang Tsung
22.) Mileena
23.) Sheeva


My reason for moving Kitana up is that she is absolutely ridiculous with the length on her jabs. She has one of the best throw ranges and priority which complements her rushdown extremely well. Couple her great jab attributes with block jabs, and she is a fortress. Her instant aerial fan is one of the best specials in the game, it has virtually no recovery and comes out fast. Kitana can initiate offense by abusing the instant aerial fan and come in to open the opponent. It's also a great counter for players who like to rely on block jabs for defensive and keep-out purposes as it will force them to block and give Kitana a ton of advantage on block for lockdowns. Kitana is top five at minimum, in my opinion.

I moved Kano down because his sweep dominance is not as good as it used to be with block jabs being mastered. Kano's specials are also very unsafe, especially his balls. Kano used to be able to escape pressure easily by tea bagging people in the face who would try to run jab him due to balls insane start-up, but now block jabs paint this option as very risky.


Other characters I think that should be moved up:

Jade
Unmasked Sub-Zero
Mileena

Other characters that I think should be moved down:

Kung Lao
Liu Kang
Shang Tsung




It's been a good while since any UMK3 discussions of this kind has taken place, hopefully this sparks some.
 

Spletty

Grandmaster
Why do I see more Sonya and jax then Kano? Just curious.

Btw this is my new main game til injustice.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
uSub and Sonya are top 10, Sheeva is top 15. I also think Sektor should be moved up to in the top 15.
 

ded

Elder God
i will def put higher kitana (but not top 5) and mileena. sektor and sonya must be lower and sheeva is the worst character in the game, it is almost worthless to play with her against a high-level player.

its good to see some love for the game again but blocking jabs or karajabs were used back then too. i dont understand? they are even mentioned in lex' umk3 compendium from 2003. anyway i agree the tier list must be changed i just dont have desire to bother with this again.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
i will def put higher kitana (but not top 5) and mileena. sektor and sonya must be lower and sheeva is the worst character in the game, it is almost worthless to play with her against a high-level player.
Once I get home I'll go into detail, but there's no way Sheeva is the worst in the game. She may have a 8-2 match-up against Kabal, but she does okay vs the rest of the cast.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
I think Classic Sub and Cyrax should be moved up. Not by much, just they're not bottom 5 imho. I'll take any male ninja over Liu or Shang any day in Ultimate lol
 

SquirtMcGirt

Purple balls covering the screen
Thats awesome people are still playing this. I just got back into it after years and years and am wondering why i ever stopped, it so much fun! If anyone wants games on psn mkak my shit is squirtmcgirt187 i know this is off topic but i would love to play some of you high level players and get good.
 

ded

Elder God
Once I get home I'll go into detail, but there's no way Sheeva is the worst in the game. She may have a 8-2 match-up against Kabal, but she does okay vs the rest of the cast.
Put two equal high-level players who can kjab, otg and corner inf with kabal vs sheeva. she could not win even 1 game out of 50. this is my opinion of course, maybe i'm just a scrub ;)
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Put two equal high-level players who can kjab, otg and corner inf with kabal vs sheeva. she could not win even 1 game out of 50. this is my opinion of course, maybe i'm just a scrub ;)
Well I agree but that's the only character Sheeva can't win against, imo.
 

REO

Undead
Premium Supporter
Good points REO, idk how Kano is #4, few players like use him. Instead i think mostly of the players prefer Nigthwolf over Kano. For Kitana many players like to play with she too. I also think the two Sub-Zero are a bit underrated in that list, both are very good. Maybe Mileena and Shang Tsung should exchange their positions. I agree too with Kung Lao and Liu Kang should move down, although Kung Lao is awesome is a bit unsafe to use, I think players prefer Reptile or Ermac for example (who are more safe) instead Kung Lao .
I would agree with swapping Shang Tsung's position with Mileena.

Why do I see more Sonya and jax then Kano? Just curious.

Btw this is my new main game til injustice.
Sonya and Jax are easier to play than Kano. I can see Kano being above Sonya because of his air grab, but I believe Jax is debatable.

uSub and Sonya are top 10, Sheeva is top 15. I also think Sektor should be moved up to in the top 15.
You're putting too much basis on this "experience" from online Sheeva. And Sektor being moved up to 15 I disagree with. Sektor is very weak to rushdown in general. You don't need to put high emphasis on block jabbing to defeat him.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Agree with some characters moving around.

uSub, Mileena, Jade, Kitana moving up due to their top tier jab game.

Kung Lao moving down... at high level, nobody jumps; and with kjs, nobody is going to be hit by that spin.

EDIT: As I am sure all of the top players know, uSub has a corner jab infinite if he freezes you on the ground. With some of the best rjs in the game and a corner infinite... how is he not top 10 at the least?
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
REO If I made a tier list it would look like this: (Did what REO suggested, Green means they moved up, Red means they moved down)

1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Ermac
4.) Kitana
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Kung Lao
7.) Robot Smoke
8.) Jax
9.) Sonya
10.) Reptile
11.) Kano
12.) Sindel
13.) Unmasked Sub-Zero
14.) Jade
15.) Stryker
16.) Scorpion
17.) Mileena
18.) Sheeva
19.) Sektor
20.) Liu Kang
21.) Cyrax
22.) Classic Sub-Zero
23.) Shang Tsung

I believe Kano and Kung Lao are not top 5 material. Kung Lao is still a top 10 character, but as you can see, I feel Kano is pretty bad these days. I've played good Kano's and have used him myself, while he does have a good sweep, an air throw and a knee start-up pop-up combo, I just feel he falls short when in comparison to the other 15 in front of him on my tier list.

Kung Lao has a very easy infinite. The problem is in high levels you aren't going to get the chance to land it very often. Doing the spin is so unsafe especially against someone block jabbing. Free punish on block, so you really can only do it if you catch someone jumping in on you, and that's a rarity at high levels. He's still versatile and has good mobility though. So he's still a top 10 character.

I moved Kitana and Nightwolf in the top 5. I've played some of the best Kitanas and Nightwolfs and these two characters are beasts. Kitana's instant air fan is comparable to Guile's sonic boom in SF4. You can throw it out, recover instantly when you land, then rush down behind it. This prevents your opponent from easily stopping your rushdown. Also, it's great against block jabs. Kitana instant air fans against a block jabbing opponent, forces opponent in block stun, then is free to rush down. Nightwolf also has a nasty rushdown and great mix-ups. His ability to set-up multiple ambiguous throw opportunities makes him annoying to deal with. An ambiguous throw set-up is when you land near the opponent after a knock down, and you have to guess which side to hold back in order to avoid being thrown. The way UMK3 is, you land near a fallen opponent and it's hard to tell which side either player is on until you've gotten up completely. His shoulder charge can punish so many things it's ridiculous. It is punishable on block against Kabal though.

Sonya moved up to top 10. She's essentially a block jab killer. She has the best crouching LK in the game with quick start-up and recovery, also with the best distance out of all the characters. Her crouching LK is comparable to Ryu's crouching MK in SF4. Her leg grab isn't the greatest, but can punish a bunch of things. He up bike kick has very quick start-up, and she recovers instantly on block. It's very hard to punish Sonya if you block her up bike kick. Her main downfall, however, is the fact that when you try and block jab or kara jab with her, you'll accidentally do her leg grab often.

Sheeva is solid at #18. I first thought she was a top 15 character, but the characters before her are better. She's underrated. She isn't the worst character in the game, and only has one virtually unwinnable match-up (Kabal). Her hitbox does hurt her, but it also helps her in some situations, such as she's harder to juggle. The main problem is that if you get her in the corner, doing the corner jab infinite on her is super easy.

Sektor moved back 1 spot. But he's pretty good and underused. His homing missile is great cover for rushdown. It can be compared to Kitana's instant air fan. He actually has more time to rushdown since the missile doesn't hit the opponent right away.

Shang is the worst character. While he can morph into any character, morphing with Shang is risky. It has a long start-up, and longer recovery. If someone morphs into Kabal, just block until he morphs back then rushdown.

I moved uSub to #12. He's very good and has some great match-ups. He does very well against Kabal, the best character in the game. He owes his #12 placement mainly to his ice clone. It provides great defense. For instance you can ice clone, and jump in on Kabal. Kabal cannot aaSpin you because if he does, he will get frozen and you get a punish. He has to aa you in another way, which will force him to not rely on his spin. It's also great for corner lock down and has other uses that are great at high levels. If not even just to cut the flow of combat until the ice clone disappears. His standing HK has great range and has a high hitbox. His HK alone dominates a lot of match-ups.

Reptile moves back to #10. Reptile is good but just not a top 5 character. He can do high damaging combos. His forceballs are what keeps him in the top 10. He's nearly the only character that can actually zone effectively in UMK3. The problem is zoning isn't too strong in UMK3.

That's all I have for now.
 

Tim Static

Adminerator
Juggs I agree with the Shang part. I think it was Konqrr that made that video about how bad Shang's morphs are in UMK3 (& Mk2) and that they are more of a bad thing, than good.

But i just don't agree with Kano on anyone's list being that low. He's way too solid imo. Not the best, but not THAT low.

Yea, Lao should drop some because you'd be a fool to jump anytime you fight him.

Nightwolf is an online beast lol. Rep can zone like a mofo. I dunno, just a couple thoughts i have after seeing some peoples lists.

PS- Robo Homo ftw
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
I would agree with swapping Shang Tsung's position with Mileena.



Sonya and Jax are easier to play than Kano. I can see Kano being above Sonya because of his air grab, but I believe Jax is debatable.



You're putting too much basis on this "experience" from online Sheeva. And Sektor being moved up to 15 I disagree with. Sektor is very weak to rushdown in general. You don't need to put high emphasis on block jabbing to defeat him.
IMO, Jax and Kano are virtually on identical learning curves. I see no reason why jax would be easier to use than Kano, plus Kano beats Jax 6-4, probably. Otherwise i agree w/ your post.

I agree Mileena, Jade and Kitana need to be moved up.....Arion got me addicted to them 3 Super-Sluts and i surprised myself even w/ the amount of wins i racked up w/ them and against who and which characters.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
Hi. kind of n00b in umk3. Why you Juggs put Ermac higher than before?

Also... why is Jade getting up? I understand he has some nice jabs, but is that enough?