New UMK3 Tier List? (update for 2012)

[Juggs]

And yes, it will be a passive aggressive comments, what do you expect? Writing giant posts with possible theoretical explanations?

Wasn't there a thread from an year ago (maybe less), how you guys wanted to ban karajabs from UMK3 because you thought it was broken? Now you are saying Kitana is top 3 because she can karajab and low aafn, Kung Lao, Kano and Reptile sux and Sheeva is N15...

Now I'm smiling ^_^

See that's the difference. I don't cling on to a position, ignore all new evidence and perspectives, and just keep playing the same song. When I originally made the Glitch Jab thread, my mindset was that they were broken and should be banned. My mind was changed once I practiced using them and beating them. I was so blinded by the concept of them I had never even tried to beat them to the degree I did after the thread was made. So in the thread I changed my position.

I keep an open mind, and like discussions like this because hardly anyone plays the game anymore. If there were a bunch of players I would agree with "just play". But there's no one to just play, so we discuss the game in here to spark some interest back in the game so other people may want to get into it. See, we don't have this motive to prove you guys wrong... we just want a healthy discussion on it.

 

[Remz]

Top six, IMO:

1.) Kabal
2.) Human Smoke
3.) Ermac
4.) Kitana
5.) Nightwolf
6.) Reptile

This is exactly what I feel, except that I would replace Reptile with Kano because I'm 100% sure that he is better than Reptile.

 

[summoning]

us OG guys well me anyway i dont know frame data traps etc, Kung lao is just very fast with quick dive kicks and crossups which i use the most . And mostly i play mk2 style and counter pick. I play 4 characters to take on the whole cast. I have never won a major but i can hold my own

 

[RTM2004]

Nice to see Jade possibly moving up even if it's just one slot above XD

I agree what Juggs said months ago, Jade's Returning Boomerang is a really good projectile coupled with her Flash ability and Glow Kick which defines spacing. I'll never understand why when you play Jade humanly her HP-HP-DLP-LK-HK-LK-BHK combo only does 25% damage while when the AI does it on you it's 34%

Cool to see Mileena possibly going up too but isn't she the worst and most unsafe character in the game? I do like her HK-HK-DFLK pop up combo then Jump Kick~Sai Toss. I guess the UMK3 female ninja jabs and small crouching hitbox makes a difference.

 

[Pikachu]

ded REO Juggs do you guys think is Sheeva is bottom last? I for one don't

 

[Mgo]

I will not give an opinion now, thats a fact: High-level players (USA, Chile, Venezuela, etc.) use and used for years more Nightwolf and Ermac than Kano and Kung Lao even Reptile. If these players dont respect that list, what remains for the rest of the players?

 

[MKK hanzo]

I will not give an opinion now, thats a fact: High-level players (USA, Chile, Venezuela, etc.) use and used for years more Nightwolf and Ermac than Kano and Kung Lao even Reptile. If these players dont respect that list, what remains for the rest of the players?

Easier:

Tourney placement all over these years, worlwide. No Lao in even top 10.

I agree a 100% with your post, Juggs. I really do not understand why certain players feel we are taking shots at them and feeling the need to defend themselves with passive aggressive comments.

They still think that we are in the 90s XD but they dont dare to go out and play with us "new kids on the block" haha

I did love to see Lex vs marvin FT10. I have my bet placed BTW.

Cool to see Mileena possibly going up too but isn't she the worst and most unsafe character in the game? I do like her HK-HK-DFLK pop up combo then Jump Kick~Sai Toss. I guess the UMK3 female ninja jabs and small crouching hitbox makes a difference.

She isnt the worst, the bottom 3 is a toss up but they played in the RIGHT hands and with a good ammount of skill and hardwork and KNOWLEDGE of the game can make her look good, like Arion7Marv/Dominican Republic/Marcelo does with Kitana.

BTW Rep. Dom is still LEVELING UP their game (MKTn64) while ppl here still call Glitch Jabs broken XD

 

[Juggs]

ded REO Juggs do you guys think is Sheeva is bottom last? I for one don't

Of course she isn't dead last. I think I have her at #17. She's low tier but not the worst.

 

[Pikachu]

Sonya and Sheeva, need to move up. Sheeva especially.

 

[Pikachu]

Agree with some characters moving around.

uSub, Mileena, Jade, Kitana moving up due to their top tier jab game.

Kung Lao moving down... at high level, nobody jumps; and with kjs, nobody is going to be hit by that spin.

EDIT: As I am sure all of the top players know, uSub has a corner jab infinite if he freezes you on the ground. With some of the best rjs in the game and a corner infinite... how is he not top 10 at the least?

What about Scoprion then, he can spear a guy, RUN him into the corner and rj people to death.

 

[MKK hanzo]

Konqrr dat sig

 

[Shock]

The first tier list I ever saw was from 2003, and it was "the Chicago tier list." There was much debate during that time, similar to what you guys are doing now, to move on from that tier list, which was already 4 years old, mind you no progress had been made in the game either since no one was really playing, but as time went on changes were made. The tier list posted on UMK, and the order the characters are listed, is a tier list based on the changes that happened between 2003 and 2006, which to be honest, were mostly standards in combos, a few new tactics, practicality of relaunch infinites, more tournament outcomes, and not much else. This is why the tier list wasn't drastically changed. However, a couple years ago, more tier lists were made, and in my opinion, the best list currently, is the matchup chart based one. Perhaps as I've said, some modifications need to be made and the points recounted. A few changes might happen and I would like to see what they are, but we need more people involved in this conversation.

This is directed towards the online players:

What you experience online skews the results of matches in a totally unnatural way every single time you play, no matter what, even if it's 1%. I would argue that it's closer to 10% on average and anything more than that should be absolutely ruled out as true experience. A high level match in person, in a tournament, in the finals is worth many more times that of any match you can play online, or even in casuals offline. I have seen online play slowly infiltrate tier lists for games and it should not happen. I've always suggested, as Lex did in this thread, for online players to build and work off their own online tier list, and stay out of normal tier list discussion.

This is how I feel, have always felt, I will make no apologies for it, and many others who support the FGC (for ANY game), not to mention many people who play online and wish they could attend tournaments, feel the same way. There are players who quite possibly have played 10s of thousands of matches online in their respective games, and they are not, and will never be as good as they can be if they could play consistently offline. To be more clear, this means that an online player who comes to a tournament and wins it, could still perform EVEN BETTER, because of the constraints of online play.

 

[Juggs]

snip.

This is all true. But what does it have to do with anything?

 

[Shock]

We're talking about tier lists, my entire first paragraph is more than relevant, and clarifies something you said.

And also, that I, personally, don't want to hear anything about online tactics be brought up, as I'm seeing online being referenced in the thread. It should not be. I hope this discussion flourishes otherwise because I miss UMK3.

 

[Mgo]

Then the true experience is play only on tournaments...three, maybe four times in the year, that seems not enough for those who like play almost every day, at least for me.

 

[AREZ God of War]

This is why it will never die ;]

MKK hanzo, this is not what i meant + you were never good at this game, noob ;/

Shock 9.95 Tim Static
summoning MKK hanzo ded
This is all entirely true and one of the reasons for this game's longevity, but as much as I loved it, I think MK9 was a game that was worth cutting other game's time for me to learn. I love me the shit outta some MK9 and when I dedicated myself to learning it at the time I came into the MK9 Kommunity, it was like a new doorway was opened to me . We need the OGs like you guys playing MK9. Time for great minds to help break down the new game too. This game is worth the 2nd and 3rd chances people give it .

 

[Shock]

Then the true experience is play only on tournaments...three, maybe four times in the year, that seems not enough for those who like play almost every day, at least for me.

It needs to be stepped up. I attend at least 4 majors a year and have been for many years, and I bring UMK3 to each one. This is only the North East US. There are many smaller tournaments even more localized where UMK3 gets played here. This starts another issue, as it's hard to make the game available to many people, all over the country, in a manner that is acceptable. You can't lower the standard of play just because online is the most accessible platform to play. Tier lists, in a nutshell, cannot be determined by netplay influence, that's the only guideline I will push.

 

[ded]

Chile players use Jax and Sonya on tournies, does that makes these top 5? I absolutely see no reason Sheeva being higher, this is not MKT N64.

As for MK9, its a great game, i never said it wasnt. I even tried messing with it the first week it came out, but i cant play this on pad or stick ;]

 

[AREZ God of War]

Chile players use Jax and Sonya on tournies, does that makes these top 5? I absolutely see no reason Sheeva being higher, this is not MKT N64.

As for MK9, its a great game, i never said it wasnt. I even tried messing with it the first week it came out, but i cant play this on pad or stick ;]

Go WinterWar's style w/ a keyboard or get a Hitbox I see alot of people on hitboxes, but WinterWars is the only keyboard player i know of atm. It'd be interesting what you'd crank out in MK9 , especially if u mastered a hitbox which u might just like better anyway after getting used to it. I wanna see Ded do MK9 combo videos like i seen Ded do in UMK3.

 

[Shock]

Go WinterWar's style w/ a keyboard or get a Hitbox I see alot of people on hitboxes, but WinterWars is the only keyboard player i know of atm. It'd be interesting what you'd crank out in MK9 , especially if u mastered a hitbox which u might just like better anyway after getting used to it. I wanna see Ded do MK9 combo videos like i seen Ded do in UMK3.

ded_ and I are both keyboard players...

 

[AREZ God of War]

ded_ and I are both keyboard players...

You switched after Summerjam?

 

[HrZ]

So yeah, still waiting for accurate reasons as to why Kung Lao is specifically top three. All I've gotten so far are defensive responses like "ull never know cuz u didnt play me bro" or "i guess im not that good since u have the nerve to question kl's placement".

I`m sure you will understand why lao is top 3 if you play with ded for some time.Kitana definitely is very strong char with all the jabs and stuff, but i think you are making her overrated a little.For sure kitana will be pain in the a*s for lao, but still he is a monster for almost every character in the game.Still he is vulnerable and you can beat him easily sometimes, but that doesn't make him weaker than kitana.

 

[THTB]

You switched after Summerjam?

He's always been a keyboard player.

Surprised they haven't bought hitboxes yet.

ded why didn't you find a converter and play it on keyboard???

 

[REO]

w1nter warz has been a keyboard player since the beginning of time for MK9. You guys should hit him up on how to get it to work with MK9.

I`m sure you will understand why lao is top 3 if you play with ded for some time.Kitana definitely is very strong char with all the jabs and stuff, but i think you are making her overrated a little.For sure kitana will be pain in the a*s for lao, but still he is a monster for almost every character in the game.Still he is vulnerable and you can beat him easily sometimes, but that doesn't make him weaker than kitana.

I only play Kabal in UMK3.

 

[Christmas_Gift]

basically you haven't played me yet, and probably will not be able to - which is why you will never understand kung lao.

Sir not looking to be disrespectful and I'm sure in your day u were an authority but please take a step back and realize that you are several generations of tech behind. Please compare what the game looks like played by even mid to high level players and you can clearly see while your skills were a force to be reckoned with now days your average players would for a lack of better terms "Do U Dirty". While everyone should have input the old timers who really are very far behind the curve should provide input on an as-is basis and not based on the current level of play.