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Nerfs. In november patch we have them, but that is not enough

Who must be nerfed?

  • Black Adam

    Votes: 56 33.7%

  • Supergirl

    Votes: 128 77.1%

  • Firestorm

    Votes: 30 18.1%

  • Superman

    Votes: 33 19.9%

  • The flash

    Votes: 41 24.7%

  • Brainiac

    Votes: 16 9.6%

  • Catwoman

    Votes: 69 41.6%

  • Dr Fate

    Votes: 28 16.9%
  • Total voters
    166
HellblazerHawkman

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
I'm not willing to say any of them need to be nerfed at this time. The worst offenders in the game prepatch were Deadshot and J2Man and they were just knocked down a tier
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
ImperatrixSindel said:
If you think Cheetah is 'broke' maybe you are just not very good at the game lol. She's fine.
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?? That's really rude to say.. Come on let's not make this personal.

Aside from that weirdly mean comment.. I think she gets away with too much, she's a very safe character. And has a lot of frame traps. Her F3 is +10 and double hitting/armor breaking. Her D3 low profiles catwoman's B3. Her pounce low profiles all of black adam's moveset almost, and Manta's teleport. I'm sure there are other things she goes under. I know how to fight her, I tend to beat a lot of cheetahs I fight. I'm not saying I struggle against her, I'm just quoting her strengths.
 
Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
AkioOf100 said:
?? That's really rude to say.. Come on let's not make this personal.

Aside from that weirdly mean comment.. I think she gets away with too much, she's a very safe character. And has a lot of frame traps. Her F3 is +10 and double hitting/armor breaking. Her D3 low profiles catwoman's B3. Her pounce low profiles all of black adam's moveset almost, and Manta's teleport. I'm sure there are other things she goes under. I know how to fight her, I tend to beat a lot of cheetahs I fight. I'm not saying I struggle against her, I'm just quoting her strengths.
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Cheetah is perfect as is. Stop it.
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
Chernyy Volk said:
Cheetah is perfect as is. Stop it.
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Is it ok to go under a teleport. Is it ok to have an unblockable 300 dmg grab off of a 50/50 mix-up. Is it ok to completely mitigate the tools of other characters bc your character is smaller? I don't think that's right. I'm not asking for her to be completely nerfed into the ground or for her frame data to be checked honestly, if they just made her (like catwoman) capable of being hit, that would be fair.

I get it, she's a rushdown. She should be overwhelming as HELL when she's up close. But at full screen she's even a threat because of her pounce. Other characters have get-in tools that are very punishable, but nobody in the game has really huge damage air-to-air/anti-air conversions. So the reward for punishing her arguably difficult-to-punish lunge. It's super fast and you can fake people out, which is not something I think should be changed. I think her air normals are really active (especially j3) in combination with her lunge, making her SUPER hard to get out of the air on some characters, and if you fail, you're eating 500+ dmg. And that's if she's NOT in trait. God forbid she have on trait, because you're dead.

Also if there are really good, consistent ways to defend against cheetah, pls inform me. I'm open to other peoples opinions.
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
AkioOf100 said:
Flash has unfuzziable 50/50s that lead into 600 dmg conversions into 25/25/25/25 setups. I'm good. Make them more unsafe by making lightning kick -21 on block if not charged and remove the stagger-ability of d12. Also fix his crouching hitbox, he goes under stuff w/ normals other than sweep.

Make Brainiac's d1 a mid but let the extended d1 still be a low. People don't realize how powerful of a change this is. He can stagger d1 and jail into an instant overhead or another d1 that you cannot fuzzy or backdash, they're both instant. Near a background bounce? You're gonna die. LOL. So fix that, that's about it for him imo. People generally block overhead against him anyway so it's alright that he has the instant overhead.
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I don't think it's in major need of changing but I agree about lightning kick. It combos on hit into huge combos, MB doesn't come out on block, he can cancel it and he has BF1 which is -8. I don't see why it shouldn't be a free punish. Not the end of the world if they don't change it IMO but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

Making Brainiac's D1 a mid with no major compensation would probably kill the character TBH. People block overhead because people use divekick more and that's because his divekick has way more reward, range and space coverage then his low options. That change would really mess with his Oki, both the speed and the recovery of d1 compared to d+f1 is really important and his reward for a d1/d+f1 on hit or a d1/d+f1 special is really small unless he has trait out in the corner.(Or if you are an execution savage.) And maybe there's alternate definitions but generally when I hear people talk about staggers they are talking about block pressure, not hit advantage.
 
AkioOf100

AkioOf100

I play Raph
Marinjuana said:
I don't think it's in major need of changing but I agree about lightning kick. It combos on hit into huge combos, MB doesn't come out on block, he can cancel it and he has BF1 which is -8. I don't see why it shouldn't be a free punish. Not the end of the world if they don't change it IMO but I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

Making Brainiac's D1 a mid with no major compensation would probably kill the character TBH. People block overhead because people use divekick more and that's because his divekick has way more reward, range and space coverage then his low options. That change would really mess with his Oki, both the speed and the recovery of d1 compared to d+f1 is really important and his reward for a d1/d+f1 on hit or a d1/d+f1 special is really small unless he has trait out in the corner.(Or if you are an execution savage.) And maybe there's alternate definitions but generally when I hear people talk about staggers they are talking about block pressure, not hit advantage.
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Oh no I was talking about Brainiac's D1 on hit, not on block. You guess between another low or an overhead, especially near a background bounce, which are both instant. That's all.
 
ImperatrixSindel

ImperatrixSindel

Too bad YOU... will DIE!
AkioOf100 said:
Is it ok to go under a teleport. Is it ok to have an unblockable 300 dmg grab off of a 50/50 mix-up. Is it ok to completely mitigate the tools of other characters bc your character is smaller? I don't think that's right. I'm not asking for her to be completely nerfed into the ground or for her frame data to be checked honestly, if they just made her (like catwoman) capable of being hit, that would be fair.

I get it, she's a rushdown. She should be overwhelming as HELL when she's up close. But at full screen she's even a threat because of her pounce. Other characters have get-in tools that are very punishable, but nobody in the game has really huge damage air-to-air/anti-air conversions. So the reward for punishing her arguably difficult-to-punish lunge. It's super fast and you can fake people out, which is not something I think should be changed. I think her air normals are really active (especially j3) in combination with her lunge, making her SUPER hard to get out of the air on some characters, and if you fail, you're eating 500+ dmg. And that's if she's NOT in trait. God forbid she have on trait, because you're dead.

Also if there are really good, consistent ways to defend against cheetah, pls inform me. I'm open to other peoples opinions.
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Cheetah's lunge/pounce mobility is her great strength. The low profiling is part of her design and her pounces require a lot of thought to be useful -- if you YOLO you get punished. That execution should be rewarded. Her f3 is the best in the game, probably, but it's also just about her only way to advance safely.

She is balanced by having the following flaws:
  • Almost all her strings have very punishable gaps
  • No real neutral game to speak of: no forward-advancing special, no good advancing strings or normals, stubby arms
  • No projectile
  • No real chip
  • Divekick is punishable
  • Wake-up is full combo punishable
  • Poor MB roll versus the rest of the cast
  • Highly meter-dependent for damage unless you have trait
She's good, don't get me wrong! Solid character. But she is not OP by any means. Very high-risk/high-reward. You just need to learn the matchup if you're having trouble punishing her, because she's very punishable.

I play Cheetah and Canary, and if you asked me which of those rushdown mix characters you should really be worried about, Cheetah would not be my answer.
 
Wigy

Wigy

There it is...
If flash needs a redesign, so does cheetah.

Flash is obviously better but they are both really badly designed.

Their neutral is really shit so they have these fucking stupid moves to compensate.
 
Cerbero

Cerbero

Always down for games.
Dankster Morgan said:
Why’re we trying to get Flash nerfed? I agree with @Basic Stupidity that a Flash redisign would be nice but not necessarily a nerf. Can’t characters just be good? Don’t get me wrong, I hate Flash, he’s the exact opposite of the type of play I like, he’s pure 50/50s rushdown which I get no enjoyment fighting against. But he’s not overpowered.
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Either OH or Low Starters(both lead to 70-90% combos) one should be punishable on block at least.

He's too brain dead at the moment, just mindless rushdown:
 
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