Nerfs. In november patch we have them, but that is not enough

[Cerbero]

I think @Zhidoreptiloid should have this topic nerfed via deletion because this is a toxic as fuck topic to even make on this forum.

Supergirl is fine, she punishes bad fundamentals. Stop pressing buttons and not putting pressure on after b123

Firestorm is fine. He'll be better. Don't take this away from Firestorm mains

Black Adam is fine, he's the Quan Chi of this game. He gets mauled on defense and does superb on offense.

Superman is fine, he's the most one dimensional character in the game next to Cheetah.

The Flash is fucking fine, I can't believe you're gonna even suggest he needs to be touched. HE NEEDS that damage, now that he's had the restand glitch with bf1 removed he needs it more than ever. The minute he loses his 500-600 one bar+trait conversions there is ZERO REASON to play him over a character like Blue Beetle post-patch. You're supposed to prevent him from getting in or out mix him. There's also this wonderful tool in the game called push blocking, you should try it sometime.

Cat Woman is fine for the same reason SG is fine, she punishes bad fundamentals.

Braniac doesn't need to be nerfed. The characters a delicate balancing act. He could be made into a trash garbo character too easily.

Dr Fate is fine. Stop forward dashing after getting hit by fireballs.

This community drives me nuts. You guys need to level up, I have to wonder how most people begging for nerfs to everyone they don't like would've done in the no-patching era of FG's?

Flash does not need 70-90% corner carrying combos brah.

I agreed with everything else though.

 

[Error]

She has two unreactable, unblockable command grabs

I feel like this is somewhat over hyping her grabs, when they're basically like any other overhead/low mix up but worse since they whiff if the opponent's in hitstun or too much blockstun.

 

[Nobus3r1]

This community drives me nuts. You guys need to level up, I have to wonder how most people begging for nerfs to everyone they don't like would've done in the no-patching era of FG's?

Spoiler

Answer: Likely, quite poorly.

 

[ImperatrixSindel]

the patch just came out

slow yr roll friend

 

[Meep8345]

Why is there a thread complaining about the nerfs already not being enough!? Why are threads always about nerfing and buffing why can't we just play the game and enjoy it. Look at marvel, people whined yeah but they also sat down and actually labed and tried their best to level up while we just say buff this or nerf that. Also why focus on nerfing that just hurts the game, which is cooler deadshot's wc getting nerfed or joker getting a new overhead? Which is more exciting giving more or taking away things from characters?

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I feel like this is somewhat over hyping her grabs, when they're basically like any other overhead/low mix up but worse since they whiff if the opponent's in hitstun or too much blockstun.

I wasnt meaning to hype them up or anything... But they are unreactable, unblockable grabs that lead to good damage for a bar. All I was trying to do was show Cheetah has mix, and more than the OP claimed by saying just mobility and damage.

But you're right, i didnt really take in to account they dont work through hit/block stun situations.

Like I said, I'm not trying to say shes ridiculous or OP or anything. Just that she's good and has more than the OP made out. In my opinion anyway.

 

[Barrogh]

unblockable

Technicality. They are effectively just rather negative OH/Lows that unlike "real" strike-based OH and lows don't connect with airborne (or pre-jumping) opponents or opponents in any form of stun.
But I'm just repeating what others say at this point. Eh, sorry.

I agree it's too far-fetched to say she has no way around blocking opponent. She just isn't some sort of mixup-based rushdown character.

When I read these threads I feel many people don't mean to say characters they want to get nerfed are really OP compare to the rest of the cast or something. It's just, like it was recently said, NRS games tend to outfit characters with a lot of functionality that is way easier to use than to counter. About half a decade ago certain company called this kind of abilities "anti-fun" to befit their somewhat casual-oriented PR campaign. To put it in better words, some tools are too frustrating for an average player to deal with no matter if those tools actually win games. I feel characters with these tools are most often complained about.

Granted, TYM has somewhat different profile of complaints, but not entirely.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I think NRS has kind of drawn a line with this patch. They have said that where they feel SG, Catwoman and Adam are is fine. Its the upper limit of what they want in terms of power and thats EXCELLENT to know... because having that baseline gives us a very good idea where things should be.

Now we have a line to move everyone towards and measure everyone against. As the game matures from this patch onward, NRS can look for characters who are falling behind and such and bring them up... but we need time to understand who these characters are and what they may need.

 

[Barrogh]

I think NRS has kind of drawn a line with this patch. They have said that where they feel SG, Catwoman and Adam are is fine. Its the upper limit of what they want in terms of power and thats EXCELLENT to know... because having that baseline gives us a very good idea where things should be.

Now we have a line to move everyone towards and measure everyone against. As the game matures from this patch onward, NRS can look for characters who are falling behind and such and bring them up... but we need time to understand who these characters are and what they may need.

I wish you were right. But now that they are about to deploy last bits of content and the last version of the game (PC), I don't expect them to make more than 1 another balance pass. 2 tops, with one of them being minor.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

Technicality. They are effectively just rather negative OH/Lows that unlike "real" strike-based OH and lows don't connect with airborne (or pre-jumping) opponents or opponents in any form of stun.
But I'm just repeating what others say at this point. Eh, sorry.

I agree it's too far-fetched to say she has no way around blocking opponent. She just isn't some sort of mixup-based rushdown character.

When I read these threads I feel many people don't mean to say characters they want to get nerfed are really OP compare to the rest of the cast or something. It's just, like it was recently said, NRS games tend to outfit characters with a lot of functionality that is way easier to use than to counter. About half a decade ago certain company called this kind of abilities "ani-fun" to befit their somewhat casual-oriented PR campaign. To put it in better words, some tools are too frustrating for an average player to deal with no matter if those tools actually win games. I feel characters with these tools are most often complained about.

Granted, TYM has somewhat different profile of complaints, but not entirely.

Yeah, balance doesnt exist in a vacuum and some characters are balanced at high levels of play, but enormously unbalanced at low to mid levels. Deadshot is the obvious candidate for mention here.

 

[EntropicByDesign]

I wish you were right. But now that they are about to deploy last bits of content and the last version of the game (PC), I don't expect them to make more than 1 another balance pass. 2 tops, with one of them being minor.

Yeah, it's def 'late' for this to be happening, but if it sets up the next patch or two to lead to a sort of.. 'definitive' edition, it could still be nice. I wish they done it much earlier.. I know we'll never see it, but I sit back and dream of the day a dev in a FG releases a patch and literally says "This character is our baseline. Everyone under will brought up. Everyone over will be brought down". Then a community can.. theoretically anyway, have a little more direction and sense added in to discussions about balance. I mean, I know its not as simple as making everyone as powerful as some other character, because power can be defined in a ton fo different ways.. Just thought exercises I guess.



PS4 patch it out.. No Hellboy though right?

 

[AkioOf100]

? Cheetah is broke. But it's ok lol. NRS doesn't wanna hurt anybody's feelings.

 

[Wigy]

Fix characters hurtboxes and the stupid floaty characters that high crush moves when they are walking in.

 

[colby4898]

I think the only characters that need to be nerfed now are Supergirl, The Flash and darkseid (who wasnt an option). While dont necessarily see this as the top 3 (other than Supergirl being number 1 imo), flashes and darkseids constant 50/50s into such high damage needs to be toned down imo

 

[SaucyD0ge]

I think the only characters that need to be nerfed now are Supergirl, The Flash and darkseid (who wasnt an option). While dont necessarily see this as the top 3 (other than Supergirl being number 1 imo), flashes and darkseids constant 50/50s into such high damage needs to be toned down imo

Darkseid has no neutral play besides instant air stomp, b1 strings, d1 shenanigans and omega beams.Jump back from any cool set-up he goes for with a teleport.Flash gets broke in the corner though.

 

[EMPEROR_KNICKS]

I think @Zhidoreptiloid should have this topic nerfed via deletion because this is a toxic as fuck topic to even make on this forum.

Supergirl is fine, she punishes bad fundamentals. Stop pressing buttons and not putting pressure on after b123

Firestorm is fine. He'll be better. Don't take this away from Firestorm mains

Black Adam is fine, he's the Quan Chi of this game. He gets mauled on defense and does superb on offense.

Superman is fine, he's the most one dimensional character in the game next to Cheetah.

The Flash is fucking fine, I can't believe you're gonna even suggest he needs to be touched. HE NEEDS that damage, now that he's had the restand glitch with bf1 removed he needs it more than ever. The minute he loses his 500-600 one bar+trait conversions there is ZERO REASON to play him over a character like Blue Beetle post-patch. You're supposed to prevent him from getting in or out mix him. There's also this wonderful tool in the game called push blocking, you should try it sometime.

Cat Woman is fine for the same reason SG is fine, she punishes bad fundamentals.

Braniac doesn't need to be nerfed. The characters a delicate balancing act. He could be made into a trash garbo character too easily.

Dr Fate is fine. Stop forward dashing after getting hit by fireballs.

This community drives me nuts. You guys need to level up, I have to wonder how most people begging for nerfs to everyone they don't like would've done in the no-patching era of FG's?

While I disagree with some of his opinions the only one being toxic here is you tbh, first off BA,SG,and CW are not fine at all lol, many high level players including myself think them not getting touched is retarded, theo thinks it, tweedy, and otheres that ive talked to recently about this. CW is not fine and she does not punish bad fundies lol, she is anti fundies many characters cant play there game against her bc of b3, she has to busted jump ins, godtier staggers, good dami,plus frames etc so no she is not fine in the slightest and this isnt just me ask basically any high level player that has played against CW that character is not fine. Bladam is not fine either lol, busted plus frames with retarded mix a grab loop, braindead neutral tools, good zoning good anti zoning good dami, punishes projectiles with full combos bc of dive kick and lighting cloud, one of the, if not the most busted dive kick in the history of fighting games , literally no risk to throw out xx dive kick which combos, leads to plus frames and has retarded priorty, oh and loopable plus strings, but yah hes fine bc bad wakeup bro. SG is also not fine she again has everything and thats dumb game design she should either have dami or safety not both, also nice meme about SG and fundies yah bro you have bad fundies if you get opened up ambiguous crossups or 50/50s of standing b2 mind games. Some of the others are fine, and while I agree the community needs to level up many top players think that SG,BA, and CW are not fine so yah.

 

[foxof42]

The only thing that I think really needs to go is Catwoman's B3. Low profiling mids shouldn't be a thing. Of the frustrating character metas, double MB B3 takes the cake. Either make it punishable or give it the same properties as Red Hood's and we're good. She shouldn't be able to shotgun it for the same reason Scarecrow's F3 is punishable.

Supergirl is fine other than the hitbox on her D1. See above, low profiling mids for full combos is a problem. Let's let Cheetah get away with her low key ridiculous D3, but I draw the line at HKDs.

Luxury nerfs would be making any fullscreen move like Black Magic, From The Deep, lvl 3 Canary Cry, Traumatize, etc. more punishable on block, more in line with Atrocitus.

Oh, and figure out how to balance Cold. Then we're good.

 

[Wigy]

The only thing that I think really needs to go is Catwoman's B3. Low profiling mids shouldn't be a thing. Of the frustrating character metas, double MB B3 takes the cake. Either make it punishable or give it the same properties as Red Hood's and we're good. She shouldn't be able to shotgun it for the same reason Scarecrow's F3 is punishable.

Supergirl is fine other than the hitbox on her D1. See above, low profiling mids for full combos is a problem. Let's let Cheetah get away with her low key ridiculous D3, but I draw the line at HKDs.

Luxury nerfs would be making any fullscreen move like Black Magic, From The Deep, lvl 3 Canary Cry, Traumatize, etc. more punishable on block, more in line with Atrocitus.

Oh, and figure out how to balance Cold. Then we're good.

Catwomans backdash needs changed too.

It low profiles and goes miles back with great recovery. I should be able to punish a backdash on a read with any character. Midscreen she can just disrespect the shit out of oki and then she has a launching wakeup.

 

[foxof42]

While I disagree with some of his opinions the only one being toxic here is you tbh, first off BA,SG,and CW are not fine at all lol, many high level players including myself think them not getting touched is (soap bar in my mouth), theo thinks it, tweedy, and otheres that ive talked to recently about this. CW is not fine and she does not punish bad fundies lol, she is anti fundies many characters cant play there game against her bc of b3, she has to busted jump ins, godtier staggers, good dami,plus frames etc so no she is not fine in the slightest and this isnt just me ask basically any high level player that has played against CW that character is not fine. Bladam is not fine either lol, busted plus frames with (soap bar in my mouth) mix a grab loop, braindead neutral tools, good zoning good anti zoning good dami, punishes projectiles with full combos bc of dive kick and lighting cloud, one of the, if not the most busted dive kick in the history of fighting games , literally no risk to throw out xx dive kick which combos, leads to plus frames and has (soap bar in my mouth) priorty, oh and loopable plus strings, but yah hes fine bc bad wakeup bro. SG is also not fine she again has everything and thats dumb game design she should either have dami or safety not both, also nice meme about SG and fundies yah bro you have bad fundies if you get opened up ambiguous crossups or 50/50s of standing b2 mind games. Some of the others are fine, and while I agree the community needs to level up many top players think that SG,BA, and CW are not fine so yah.

You're right, I forgot some stuff lol. Maybe make his MB divekick more in line with the recent patch's MB lethal lunge on hit. I think if SG's breath gaps were more pronounced, people wouldn't have as hard a time. If every time she did a D1 breath she exposed herself more than she does... And if her D1 didn't have such pushback... Well that'd be swell.

 

[foxof42]

Catwomans backdash needs changed too.

It low profiles and goes miles back with great recovery. I should be able to punish a backdash on a read with any character. Midscreen she can just disrespect the shit out of oki and then she has a launching wakeup.

Fair. I think I'd be fine to keep it far reaching with a big recovery nerf so it could still be punished on a read. That'd move it away from being as braindead.

 

[foxof42]

Yo I just realized that if anyone has a chance at getting Adam nerfed (more) Dragon is our guy! Go Dragon go lmao

 

[Baconlord]

Not every character needs to be addressed in every patch. Let the game play out with the new patch

 

[Invincible Salads]

Flash has unfuzziable 50/50s that lead into 600 dmg conversions into 25/25/25/25 setups. I'm good. Make them more unsafe by making lightning kick -21 on block if not charged and remove the stagger-ability of d12. Also fix his crouching hitbox, he goes under stuff w/ normals other than sweep.

Superman's lasers need a check. Whoever said its ok to have sweeping lasers in a platformer video game is crazy. Idk what they could do to them bc he'd be ruined if they nerfed them too hard but they are really strong and hit everywhere.

Make Brainiac's d1 a mid but let the extended d1 still be a low. People don't realize how powerful of a change this is. He can stagger d1 and jail into an instant overhead or another d1 that you cannot fuzzy or backdash, they're both instant. Near a background bounce? You're gonna die. LOL. So fix that, that's about it for him imo. People generally block overhead against him anyway so it's alright that he has the instant overhead.

Supergirl is good, just make her hurtbox on her d1 more .. approachable? Her d1 has weird pushback so she always has advantage on poke battles.

Black Adam is really good, I just don't know what you could change about him to make him less .. suffocating? Perhaps make his low lightning do less damage and don't let his trait kill.

NERF SCARECROWS TRAIT. It's not only annoying, but unfair that characters that cannot keep up in the damage department are literally brutalized by his trait. They can completely have the advantage as far as position and rush-down, but you're still taking DoT and his trait is still rising. I think it should not kill for one, and not do damage if he's under hit stun. That's all.

Catwoman is really hard to nerf because all her power comes from her staggers and how hard she is to hit. Adjust her backdash? It's really stupid, it goes under everything. I don't mind anything else aside from maybe her hurtbox in comparison to other characters. I'm a beetle main and I can't land some of my most optimal mid-screen combos on her, so I have to go with the less damaging options just because of her hurtbox.

Dr. Fate is completely fine where he is.

Firestorm is fine. I don't know why they buffed him but we'll see how he turns out.

brainiac is fine the way he is, making his d1 a mid is dumb and unneeded. if your having that much trouble with brainiac lab him, hell ill give you some sets with him to help you out.

tbh, every character with the exception of supergirl doesnt need nerfs, and even then supergirl should probably just have the blockstun on mb breath reduced so its no longer plus from max distance. also, make it so her d1 doesnt low profile anymore.

 

[Basic Stupidity]

I think Supergirl, Black Adam and flash should all be looked at. I am not sure about catwoman and we will have to see how she performs with this patch.

The first two are obvious however flash is a little different.
Kinda like how semij said in the Theo podcast, flash is weak but broke at the same time. It sounds contradictory but it describes flash perfectly. Flashes 50/50s are insanely good and once the character gets going, it can feel impossible to stop especially from a good flash. Flashes trait in the neutral is insanely good as well. The flash can use their trait in a close game scenario at the end of the game and it can be nearly impossible to stop the onslaught of safe back to back to back to back 50 50s, unsafe but actually safe moves, and crazy tactics that all go into massive damage.

However I can definitely see how the flash struggles in his bad MUs and in certain scenarios. I would like to see a big overhaul on the flash and make him more fair 50 50 wise but also more fair neutral wise. Currently it feels like if you get opened up by flash you're dead and it's not like its hard for flash to open you up, but at the same time if the flash fails to guess right or if he is just out neutraled he doesn't stand a chance. Basically the prepatch mkx recipe of exciting but dumb matches

 

[kcd117]

I wonder if the people that say supergirl is fine know about her stupid corner game rape. She has anti wakeup 4/5 ways mixups into 40%...with 4 options leading to + frames and 2 options leading to another mixup afterwards... like, when has this become fine? Playing neutral against her is already pretty bad for a lot of characters, but once you get knocked down in the corner it becomes a nightmare.

Flash safe unfuzzyable 50/50s into 60% are also not fine at all. Any lifelead goes to waste in a coinflip against this character.