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My Updated Kenshi MU Chart - I Proclaim Kenshi is #1!

schnitzel_on_fire

schnitzel_on_fire

Maining the Roster
Pig Of The Hut i find it interesting how you are taking the same route REO took last year; the best player with his respective character learns MU after MU until he has them all fleshed out, and voilá, no losing match-ups :)
maybe this chart holds true for you, but i don't think it can be applied to the character alone (eg. 5-5 kung lao). however, your opinion is all yours ;)
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
GGA Jeremiah said:
I am a fledgling Kenshi so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I'll state the ones I differ with, and there is 1 that I agree with.

Sektor. 6-4 Kenshi. Sektor has a better time against Kenshi than most of the cast. Attempting to spirit charge sektor when he is jumping at you can sometimes lead to him teleporting for full combo. When Sektor is hit by charge for full screen knockdown Kenshi has to be wary of wakeup teleport for decent damage. Up missiles don't reflect back so that does open some interesting reflect games. On telefurry trades, where Kenshi usually is at advantage, doesn't work against regular missile because it knocks Kenshi down. Kenshi's corner game is amazing, but Sektor can use 1 bar of meter to get out of the corner, although he is now -6 many characters would love to have this option against Kenshi to get out of the corner.

Raiden. 5-5. A Raiden that uses teleport to it's full potential is a nightmare for Kenshi. An example of this would be right around max distance spirit charge range. If Kenshi guesses right he is rewarded with 9% damage. If he guesses wrong and Raiden teleports Kenshi eats about 40%. Raiden is also one of the harder characters to zone as well.

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sektor cant do anything about oh slashes charge or down pokes into shoulder or shoulder... i get sektor can abuse that hitbox but kenshi still has armor and down 1 shoulder and kenshi can keep him away and rush down still without too much fear... i get how that can be 7-3

raiden- i totally get pigs opinion on this, kenshi isnt forced to guess with shoulder or go for shoulder the whole time... he has downpokes and downpokes into shoulder... backdashes into whiff punishes... raiden cant really play footsies... down3 dominates this matchup because i can punish teles on the other side or atleast get them blocked and i can not get blown up by ex tele.... also raiden has to somewhat guess on reaction to the zoning game... not really that reactable...
that being said raiden can punish shoulder from certain distances and whiff punish easily.... he can randomly get punishes... it could be even but its hard to play footsies against kenshi and raiden is all about footsies.
 
Peckapowa

Peckapowa

Champion
GGA Jeremiah said:
Literally about 3 weeks ago I thought this about the Raiden MU. I will try and run casuals with Chaosphere or PL when any of them are in town next. I do think this will totally help in that MU.
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if u don't overcommit vs raiden... raiden has a hard time getting anywhere...
 
daddydab32ho

daddydab32ho

KANO, KANO, KAY-NOOOOOO , KANO (DRAKES VOICE)
Nice chart pig.... But I have to respectfully say Pig Of The Hut , I don't remember getting games in with you offline kabal bs Ken but I remember online back then they were like back and forth... And Seven u can put me as a candidate now because I'm kabal all the way and that's all I've been working on... I don't really play him online only if someone asks me to or if I'm just in the mood to try and execute during the lag but anywho it's kabal all the way and i will only use my other characters if neccesary to counterpock my opponent (the player not the character) but I mean I feel it's 6-4 kabal but hey idk it really comes down to how the players play the mu and thanks for the recognition on jax Pig Of The Hut u always look out for me brotha... Btw I think tyrant has that mu down now EGP_TYRANT
 
Matix218

Matix218

Get over here!
Pig Of The Hut said:
the worst thing that could happen to me is i lose but that wont change the fact that you still suck as a player not many people like u
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To be fair I think his ermac is pretty darn good. But that being said he shouldn't be talking so confidently about matchup numbers for characters he doesn't play and saying Jr has a weak kabal is just silly
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
Why are there so many people disagreeing with these MU's? I don't understand how so many people are trying to argue this when a lot of you don't even play Kenshi, let alone at the level that Pig does. You might as well just go ahead and take his word for it people, because you aren't going to be able to prove anything otherwise.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Joker8417 said:
Why are there so many people disagreeing with these MU's? I don't understand how so many people are trying to argue this when a lot of you don't even play Kenshi, let alone at the level that Pig does. You might as well just go ahead and take his word for it people, because you aren't going to be able to prove anything otherwise.
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To be fair there are two sides to every matchup, so people disagreeing with numbers against their character will spawn discussion.
 
Briggs8417

Briggs8417

Salt Proprietor of TYM
RiBBz22 said:
To be fair there are two sides to every matchup, so people disagreeing with numbers against their character will spawn discussion.
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I'm not talking about those ones, that's fine. If you are a Kenshi player, I'm sure you have differing opinions on MU's. Same goes for if you play the other character in a MU and disagree sure go ahead and say what you think. What Seven is doing is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. I see it all the time and I just don't understand why people feel compelled to argue with experienced top tournament players in these MU's they have practically no real experience in.
 
Dizzy

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
Unless the match starts and you are able to put the opponent into an infinite with no way at all for them to escape it, it can't be a 10-0. She really has garbage options, but if a Jade player guessed right with EX Glow and jump ins enough they could at least get a game. Her options are extremely shitty but she has a chance to do at least something, albeit just throw out punishable guesses.

Justin Wong has beaten people 50-0 in Marvel 2, doesn't mean those MUs are 10-0. Player MUs may be 10-0, but unless your character is incapable of making a guess like I said in the first example, I don't think its 10-0.

Aside from arguing about something as pointless as the Kenshi-Jade MU, I agree with alot of this MU chart.
 
Fractured_Shadow

Fractured_Shadow

Really likes to throw things at you.
schnitzel_on_fire said:
Pig Of The Hut i find it interesting how you are taking the same route REO took last year; the best player with his respective character learns MU after MU until he has them all fleshed out, and voilá, no losing match-ups :)
maybe this chart holds true for you, but i don't think it can be applied to the character alone (eg. 5-5 kung lao). however, your opinion is all yours ;)
Click to expand...
A MU chart is a character being played at the HIGHEST level... what other people cannot do should not be taken into account... A MU chart should be based purley around options available and for a character to have an answer against other characters...
 
Son ov Timett

Son ov Timett

Bork, No Jin
Unfortunately, most of the cast doesn't have a representative to demonstrate the theory of said character's tools at the highest level of play. Even the upper echelon of tournament players lack mu experience to accurately gauge character x vs character y. This is hindered by geography, and unless we can have 30 players of equal skill representing 30 characters to live in a house together ala Real World for 3 months, playing 1000s of mus, everything is theory. Pig is one of literally half a dozen players who I believe play their character to the absolute limit. Hence why mu charts are tentative and not definite. For instance, until you have a sektor player punishing teleflurry whiffs from full screen at every given opportunity, and taking full advantage to exploit all of the Kenshi's weaknesses you can't accurately make an assessment for Sektor vs Kenshi. (Just an example) Everything is tentative, nothing is absolute. Here's to hoping that the majority of the community keeps learning the difficult mus as time goes on, perhaps in three years we'll have a more fair assessment. Until that time, Pig, Reo, Tyrant, et al., shall be beasting on the community's face while we complain that are selected main doesn't have the tools to tackle the mu, when in reality, we just may, but we're too busy bickering to break it down. I've been playing the same character, against good SoCal competition for 2 years, and I still don't know shit from shit. Let's all learn people. ;)
 
Blind_Ducky

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Pig Of The Hut I'm bored. I still hate smoke and think he wins slightly. I still think Kabal wins slightly. I've wanted to say 5-5 vs Lao since SCR but I thought that was me being cocky. I am free to skarlet. And jax. But I agree with the jax number and have no idea about skarlet. I'm not sure about reptile because I've hardly played it offline but when I did I think I did ok. With Shang I'm gona flip a coin to see who I root for/help out for FR WoundCowboy <3. I still think Cyrax wins slightly.
 
D

davidovitch

In Europe!
schnitzel_on_fire said:
Pig Of The Hut i find it interesting how you are taking the same route REO took last year; the best player with his respective character learns MU after MU until he has them all fleshed out, and voilá, no losing match-ups :)
maybe this chart holds true for you, but i don't think it can be applied to the character alone (eg. 5-5 kung lao). however, your opinion is all yours ;)
Click to expand...
Very good observation. However some players have also tried this with other characters and did not eventually end up with match-up charts all in their favor so it doesn't mean Reo's and Pig's charts are wrong.

Also, bird-lao shits all over Kenshi:

bird-lao.jpg
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Peckapowa said:
smoke vs shang is one of my least known matchups, but its probably 7-3 in smoke favor, atleast 6-4 smoke.... shang would have to rely on soul steal which isnt fast enough on startup to beat smoke bomb trades... his forward dash speed is mediocre at best so smoke would limit him in the footsie game pretty well especially with the smoke bomb in the footsie game.... shang would have to rely on his pressure game... but getting that would be difficult and hes no johnny cage upclose... also shangs trademark corner traps would be null... so smoke doesn't have to fear the corner as much.... shang is limited when hes forced to rushdown quite a bit.... soul steal would be his only saving grace. Smoke also does a shitload of damage and builds meter in this matchup better...
edit- can't smoke interrupt f4*gs with shake??? theres a gap in that correct... and shake has 1 frame startup... that would confirm the matchup being 7-3
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Play the kenshi mu like you would the shang mu
 
Pig Of The Hut

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
LanceMonsoon said:
This may be a little off topic but has Pig Of The Hut played EGP_TYRANT yet? In a tournament setting I mean. I have been dying to see Jax vs Kenshi at the highest possible level.
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we did casuals a MLG arena and mil jax was 5-5 at the time w us and kenshi wasnt close if i remember correctly

Tyrant i trust will be ready for that mu though, hes an excellent and smart player who i have utmost respect for
 
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