General/Other - Mileena My Balance Suggestions

[Akromaniac27]

Ravenous doesn't have the same tools as piercing so its not reinstalling the same problem piercings tools are obviously meant to be defensive and ravenous offensive its logically taking what is too much from piercing (too much offensive options) and giving it to the variation that needs it more (ravenous) and while I don't think ravenous is trash I definitely don't think its scary at all and I've played against saltfaces ravenous and while I lost lol I still don't see how these buffs would cause the problem you say it would

The problems listed are restands, advantage from restands that don't guarantee a follow up, meter build, damage scaling, and space control. Ravenous already has all of this, meterbuild arguably being better because you can literally keep throwing out safe pounces and not give a damn and an already higher damage output. Just because her tools aren't being fully utilized, doesn't mean she can't do so. And again, Piercing is a jack of all trades/fluid variation. It doesn't excel in any one area, it isnt defensive or offensive. You can play as those styles, but the character is not designed to revolve around either -___-

 

[YoloRoll1stHit]

You presented reasonable ideas.


I would add f1 being negative on block, like -4 or -5.
An armor breaking normal leading to a safe string that leads to mixups shouldn't be +2.

Also, teleport into sai/no sai mixup should disappear in some way. All teleports should be full punishable on block.

She needs that. It's not really that broken if you know the meta of that string. And what's wrong with wake up block? Her mixup is not that strong and scary
When her B12 is toned down F1 is no longer problem

 

[Akromaniac27]

Well to give an example from personal experience, I would do a string and special cancel into black dragon ball if I anticipated a counter poke. But because that counter attack turned out to be ex roll, I lose the trade bc I tried to cancel the ball and continue comboing instead of letting it fly. In this case yes, the armor breaking thing is the more reasonable and valid argument. But to me, visually it shouldn't be 3 hits to begin with. Gunslinger stance into up shots is 2 shots fired (makes sense), Lackey EX roll rolls twice (makes sense), mileena EX Telekick performs 3 seperate kicks (makes sense), mileena flipping over 1 time then rolling and it counting it as a 3 hitting move (doesn't make sense). But If you're gonna keep it 3 hitting (to save the armor breaking.....bc f12 isn't enough) then at least get rid of the 2nd OH and make it a mid.

Its because its her feet are each kicking lol. If you take away her EXroll properties, or even her 50/50 aspect, then everything else should remain the same. The perk as well as downfall of Piercing is that it is designed as a fluid variation. It does't excel or die by any one playstyle, but nerfing or taking away essential tools to it will warp the variation to either be forced to be offensive or defensive and not even a great one at that because it was never designed to be either in the first place

 

[Rican1823]

The problems listed are restands, advantage from restands that don't guarantee a follow up, meter build, damage scaling, and space control. Ravenous already has all of this, meterbuild arguably being better because you can literally keep throwing out safe pounces and not give a damn and an already higher damage output. Just because her tools aren't being fully utilized, doesn't mean she can't do so. And again, Piercing is a jack of all trades/fluid variation. It doesn't excel in any one area, it isnt defensive or offensive. You can play as those styles, but the character is not designed to revolve around either -___-

Be that as it may she can't do too much with the restand if it was as advantageous as saltface is suggesting regardless besides her pounce gimmicks which if you're patient enough can't really do too much harm and even so dwn1 pounce won't do too much damage and any mb roll attempt is unsafe I feel that kinda of meta while ugly and a bit of a mess is balanced out more than what piecing can do

 

[ando1184]

Its because its her feet are each kicking lol. If you take away her EXroll properties, or even her 50/50 aspect, then everything else should remain the same. The perk as well as downfall of Piercing is that it is designed as a fluid variation. It does't excel or die by any one playstyle, but nerfing or taking away essential tools to it will warp the variation to either be forced to be offensive or defensive and not even a great one at that because it was never designed to be either in the first place

I'm not saying get rid of the 50/50 aspect of it. I stated only to get rid of the 2nd hit, that still leaves it as an OH/mid string. It being 3 hits and 2 of those are both OH's is just a little excessive IMO. It's just a scrubby suggestion compared to some of the other nerfs flying around here.

 

[Rican1823]

When more than 80% of the people viewing this thread agree I feel that's when you should realize they might actually be right...

 

[Akromaniac27]

When more than 80% of the people viewing this thread agree I feel that's when you should realize they might actually be right...

Didnt like 95% including the OP conclude she was bottom 5 prepatch and how wrong and off that one was?

 

[hkriderz]

Telekick into sai or ex sai should not come out on block. It hurts no one and she doesn't have a 50 50 on a blocked telekick to make it safe. Characters like Sub and Lao with slow ass d2's cant do anything but guess. You got blocked bitch, hold that punish.

Also fix the inconsistency on punishing her telekick crouch vs standing. d2 punishes can sometimes be flaky depending on how you blocked it and if she throws the sai or not.

Her jump attacks need fixing. It's not even funny to see her fist hit behind her and getting comboed for trying to AA.

Slight 3% damage nerf.

Other than that saltface's changes seem legit. Maybe slightly reduce active frames but that's mostly my dislike of the character. Oh and meter building definitely should be lessened.

 

[Akromaniac27]

Telekick into sai or ex sai should not come out on block. It hurts no one and she doesn't have a 50 50 on a blocked telekick to make it safe. Characters like Sub and Lao with slow ass d2's cant do anything but guess. You got blocked bitch, hold that punish.

Also fix the inconsistency on punishing her telekick crouch vs standing. d2 punishes can sometimes be flaky depending on how you blocked it and if she throws the sai or not.

Her jump attacks need fixing. It's not even funny to see her fist hit behind her and getting comboed for trying to AA.

Slight 3% damage nerf.

Other than that saltface's changes seem legit. Maybe slightly reduce active frames but that's mostly my dislike of the character. Oh and meter building definitely should be lessened.

Lao can spin every time for a full punsih, dafuq? Doesnt matter if she delay or not, throws out the sai or not, still a punish. Sub gets a d1 check every time. Grounded, free pressure, in the air, he gets a combo. In Cryomancer, he does get a d2 every time

 

[Rican1823]

Didnt like 95% including the OP conclude she was bottom 5 prepatch and how wrong and off that one was?

depends which patch you're talking about

 

[SylverRye]

Nobody complained about shit like mileenas b12 back then because nobody used her..lbsh i can count on 1 hand the amount of mileenas ive ran into before her buffs..hell, most of you mileena mains fighting for her weren't mileena mains before she got touched.

Mileena is a VERY complete character, she has everything to deal with any character, saltface isnt suggesting kilking nerfs, just a few because lbsh, shes very damn strong now. Me personally, id love that b12 nerf, either more negative or more recovery so yall can think instead of b12 b1 b12 b1 walk back b12 run up b1 with little consequence. Yall getting super emotional over suggestions that might not even happen lol.

 

[hkriderz]

Lao can spin every time for a full punsih, dafuq? Doesnt matter if she delay or not, throws out the sai or not, still a punish. Sub gets a d1 check every time. Grounded, free pressure, in the air, he gets a combo. In Cryomancer, he does get a d2 every time

lmaoooooo d1 check? Look buddy, i don't care if u teleport from behind or above or from the damn netherrealm underneath. It's a teleport that with meter can combo into 30 plus. Every single characters teleport can be punished fully without any "guesses". She doesn't in any way need a mind game to keep herself safe. If there is one weakness to mileena is that her specials are punishable. I don't want a turn, cause tbh as Sub zero your turn ends pretty quick. She needs to be fully punished, and no one would care about sai not coming out ON BLOCK. She can still combo it on hit.

EDIT- and some punishes are hella incosistent depending on how u blocked it and when she throws the sai out, i dont need that stress on top of the headache it is to play neutral against mileena

 

[Akromaniac27]

lmaoooooo d1 check? Look buddy, i don't care if u teleport from behind or above or from the damn netherrealm underneath. It's a teleport that with meter can combo into 30 plus. Every single characters teleport can be punished fully without any "guesses". She doesn't in any way need a mind game to keep herself safe. If there is one weakness to mileena is that her specials are punishable. I don't want a turn, cause tbh as Sub zero your turn ends pretty quick. She needs to be fully punished, and no one would care about sai not coming out ON BLOCK. She can still combo it on hit.

EDIT- and some punishes are hella incosistent depending on how u blocked it and when she throws the sai out, i dont need that stress on top of the headache it is to play neutral against mileena

Shinnoks isnt a set in stone punish. Neither is Scorpion, hell his can be cancelled. Lao can spend meter to make it safer/safe. Raiden, Sektor, Smoke vanishes, etc. She has no way TO make it safe other than a gimmick that hits inexperienced players.

I was listing meterless options, but you can spend a bar if you'd like for a punish every time. So your argument is that her comitting to spending a bar in a mid that is MORE unsafe than its counterpart is so broke, because your one character MIGHT have to spend a bar to get a full combo punish?

 

[Airvidal]

Have you considered making b1 and b1, 2 less plus on hit as well. All your normalizations are on point by the way. This would actually maker her a perfect character, like BS Shinnok. Amazing variations with some dirt without getting to S tier/broken tier.

 

[hkriderz]

Shinnoks isnt a set in stone punish. Neither is Scorpion, hell his can be cancelled. Lao can spend meter to make it safer/safe. Raiden, Sektor, Smoke vanishes, etc. She has no way TO make it safe other than a gimmick that hits inexperienced players.

I was listing meterless options, but you can spend a bar if you'd like for a punish every time. So your argument is that her comitting to spending a bar in a mid that is MORE unsafe than its counterpart is so broke, because your one character MIGHT have to spend a bar to get a full combo punish?

Shinnok's tele, much like Kenshi's is a combo/blockstring extender (with the buffs). Scorpion cancels his on a complete loss to his stamina, and in fact can be punished (or lose his turn) if you read it and react.

and I DID NOT say she needs to spend a bar, I was merely showing the uses of telekick if it's ex'd can combo u into great damage, and plus its a fullscreen anti-air even if you jump back.

There's no justification for the matter that she can hit you in the face with sai after SHE MADE the mistake. What if I don't have meter? Does that mean I have to guess in order to punish a move that should be punishable already? Are you seriously defending a pseudo 50 50 teleport to a character that basically has everything she needs to fight anybody?

D2 sometimes whiffs in her face if you block it in a certain way and she doesn't sai. I've had it happen to me several times after resorting to the stupid d2 punishing method. Sub zero can get 20% max from a bar (unless cryo but that's a moot point). Why would that be a viable exchange? While I lose my footsies, she's in my face with plus frames if I guess wrong, and it doesn't matter at all to her that she can cancel it on block.

You can't mention specific characters and variations to justify a stupid mechancic. It should be fair to the entire cast. Oops everyone doesn't have 7 frame combo starters. I don't want to just spin I want to punish this -22 move with my f2 and get 36% as it is my reward for blocking it.

 

[Rude]

I think every Mileena buff/nerf thread should be re-named to, "Countdown to Akromaniac's inevitable breakdown."

 

[IrishMantis]

I'd say leave B12 the way it is
Maybe make B1 have a ton of recovery so she has to commit to her footsies somewhat without that extra mind game

Increase the hurtbox after roll so it no longer beats nearly every mid

An 8 frame super low profiling meterless launching wake up is a bit much


If okie is an issue with Milerna that's what Ethereal is for

I would also say make low Sai build no meter but don't know if that's overkill

 

[leoj89]

I'm warming up to the low sai not building meter suggestion.

 

[SaltFace NS]

I'm happy to see the attention this thread is receiving. @Pig Of The Hut care to input how you feel about my suggestions when you have time?

 

[Rude]

I think my biggest gripe with MyLeena is ball rolling low-profiling mids. I kind of really hate it.

 

[hkriderz]

I think my biggest gripe with MyLeena is ball rolling low-profiling mids. I kind of really hate it.

Oh man if you ever played Tempest and tried to oki mileena, its like fresh hell. She totally ignores orbiting hat smh

 

[Rude]

Oh man if you ever played Tempest and tried to oki mileena, its like fresh hell. She totally ignores orbiting hat smh

I got you one better.

So the other day I'm playing my friend's alt Mileena. Piercing variation, because of course. We're both down to a pixel of life and I just knocked her down.

Now, I'm playing Cybernetic Kano. The whole reason you play Cyber Kano is for the mid knives. So I go to chip her out and what happens? Roll under to a full combo. On a mid-hitting knife.

Sigh.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Now I'm sure you all know there might be one final patch to this game. And you know how much people complain about Mileena now. Well if nothing is said she will get over normalized & not be effective anymore. I've put a lot of thought into this list of suggestions. So here they are.

Mileena Suggestions


PIERCING


-Make the B1,2 string -5 on block.


The reason for -5 is very simple. In it's current state B1,2 for Mileena does way too much & has way too much utility. It can be used for offense, defense, spacing, punishing, anti air, etc etc.. It can be used offensively due to the fact of Mileena's faster up close pokes & the variable frame data it has on block from different spaces. By making it -5 you eliminate the offensive use of it & give other characters a fighting chance against the string by allowing them to poke back when the string isn't spaced properly but at the same time allows the Mileena player excellent whiff punish opportunities if the string is spaced properly while keeping the mind games of "will the Mileena EX Roll to beat the follow up poke or not" & the mind games of B1,2 Low Sai or not to beat follow up pokes. In this way you keep the core of the character intact but at the same time it gives your opponent a fighting chance against this overwhelming string.


-Give B1 & B1,2 at least 8 extra frames of recovery.


There is one simple reason for this. Time & time again I have watched Mileena players whiff this normal & this string & I have watched them safely recover in time to block a whiff punish attempt or even catch an opponent's whiff punish attempt with the final active frames & hit them instead. By adding extra frames of whiff recovery you give opponents a more efficient way to land the whiff punish that they deserve when B1 or B1,2 is whiffed.


-Make B1,2 1+3, DD2 only +6 on hit.


Once again this is a combo ender that I feel must be normalized for one simple reason. This ender does damage, IS A RESTAND, offers free pressure (especially in the corner), & by having a variation that is supposed to be a defensive & spacing type variation to have this type of ender the other variations kind of become pointless & it makes all her other combo enders pointless. By making it only +5 Mileena keeps advantage but it's not to the point that she gets absolutely free offense after hitting a combo which takes a third of your life bar. In the corner she will still keep an advantageous position but it gives your opponent a chance to at least use an armor attack if they choose to in order to try & escape which can be easily baited out & punished.


-Normalize Damage Scaling on B2,1 2+4


This combo ender is another reason in which the other enders are pointless & makes the other variations pointless due to it's high damage output & positioning it leaves Mileena in. Not only that with a bar in the corner this ender allows for absurds amount of damage that the other variations can't even reach. By normalizing the damage scaling on this ender Piercing no longer is the highest damaging variation but Ravenous does which gives Ravenous more purpose.


RAVENOUS


Before I list my suggestions I will say that I feel out of the 3 variations Ravenous needs to be the purely offensive variation of Mileena.


-B1,2 1+3 should be a restand & B1,2 1+3 UU2 should offer at least 4% health back.


I feel one of the areas that Ravenous fails to shine at is the usefulness of the unique ender that it offers. I feel that the restand that Piercing has should go to the Ravenous ender since this variation was designed to fight up close & personal. When Mileena goes for the B1,2 1+3 in Ravenous it should restand but if she adds the UU2 it should retain it's current properties but give her increased health gain since it knocks the opponent away & she has to work her way back in.


-More advantage to the 1st & 2nd parts of High Pounce & Low Pounce.


The reasoning behind this is very simple. Damage vs Positioning. If the Mileena player only does the 1st part of either Pounce or the 2nd part I feel they should be rewarded with more hit advantage in turn for giving up the free damage. I feel with that change the Pounces become much scarier of a tool to deal with & makes Ravenous much scarier up close.


ETHEREAL


No changes. I believe this variation is perfect the way that it is & any further buffing to it will make it too strong.


Please take the time to review these suggestions & tell me what you think.

I like your idea as well as one I've had

Regular ball on hit after b12 into roll only allows like b12 1+3 due to increased gravity without spending meter

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I'm happy to see the attention this thread is receiving. @Pig Of The Hut care to input how you feel about my suggestions when you have time?

I dig it

 

[Damaja325]

I got you one better.

So the other day I'm playing my friend's alt Mileena. Piercing variation, because of course. We're both down to a pixel of life and I just knocked her down.

Now, I'm playing Cybernetic Kano. The whole reason you play Cyber Kano is for the mid knives. So I go to chip her out and what happens? Roll under to a full combo. On a mid-hitting knife.

Sigh.

that actually happened to me a few days ago against another cyber kano player. he quitalitied while i was executing the game winning combo after ball roll. had the biggest shit eating grin on my face lol.

as for the low profiling on ball roll, if they were to adjust it somehow i'm just worried it would mess with her anti-airing. i'm of the opinion that ball roll should be able to AA all jump attacks. u jump, u die. simple.