Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

[Konqrr]

Updated "blank" matchup chart with images and formulas and ranks that update automatically.

http://www.mediafire.com/?jz2kxa75534ppit

You're welcome THTB ^^

All cells except for the top half of the grid are LOCKED for your protection. Once you fill in a number in an upper cell, it will automatically put the other number in the corresponding lower cell and update the rank and totals for you.

Here is one that I have begun to fill in numbers on, all of the characters except Kitana were done by Tom Brady updating the OP grid.

http://www.mediafire.com/?d495pusx86rj2nz

If you have any problems with the sheet, let me know and when I have time, I will fix and reupload.

This excel sheet was created in Office 2007. I don't know how much of the formatting will carry over to something like OpenOffice or an online doc. If you don't see the character select pics on the top row, that's why.

 

[ChaseRLewis]

VERY nicely done

 

[D. R.]

No offense, but it is easy to say "start your attack before Raiden fully materializes", but the attack has a tendancy not to track. You will be jabbing left yet Raiden is on the right side of the screen.

I have about 50 hours of off-line experience against a solid Raiden player. When Raiden's teleport is used wisely, you are not punishing it severely unless your name is Reptile or Kung Lao. To punish the teleport, you cannot touch the block button at any moment even before Raiden teleports. Yes, some of you may be hitting Raiden with Sub Zero's 2,2 or Kitana's 2, but the Raiden player is most likely not blocking and trying to throw or attack you. Most characters have to check Raiden with d+1 and d+3 or apply some kind of mind game that is character specific.

Did some testing of my own with Noob vs. Raiden. I know, I know. eadhorse:

The verdict....

Nothing Noob did "punished" teleport. Lol It was a complete guessing game both ways in the end. Am I gonna throw, go low, block, or start a string? Is he gonna throw, go low, block, attack or superman? It does feel like 8 frames recovery imo. I even did KL's EN Spin to test this, which I believe is 7 frames (?), and punished it legitly every so often on reaction. Thunder God Raiden is God Tier. Lol

 

[Zebster]

Cage's Xray counters EVERYTHING if you are close to him.

Huh, what do you know, used to be that Kratos could go through Johnny's X-Ray but I guess not anymore. Cool. Anyway carry on.

 

[THTB]

Oh, how I love Google Docs.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?hl=en_US&hl=en_US&key=0AkOCnfkQ4mX6dDQyYWFOTmpQY1J0RWMxYTBlenJGM3c&output=html

Uploaded Konqrr's spreadsheet to Google Docs. This will be the chart used, due to the extra formulas.

 

[Shiizu]

IMO, for Jade matchups there are too many 5-5's...

Jade vs Ermac should be 6-4 Ermac. His TK push shuts down her mid-range game, and she has to approach more cautiously. Her staff is not going to do her much good. Her best option is to wait for Ermac to approach, and use Shadow Glow to create an opening for a combo.

Jade vs Kitana should be 6-4 Jade I think. Ground fans get punished by dashing in and shadow kick with shadow flash active. Up close, Jade has the advantage given that she saves her meter for shadow glow.

 

[THTB]

Can't Jade use u3 to punish non-max range TKPs?

 

[Vilén]

Jade vs Kitana should be 6-4 Jade I think. Ground fans get punished by dashing in and shadow kick with shadow flash active. Up close, Jade has the advantage given that she saves her meter for shadow glow.

Why do people think Kitana can only throw fans? How does that match-up look if the Kitana player baits Glow and then just starts turtling up on you?

Oh, and every time she tags you she's going to do 240987523740293% damage. I'd call this as even at best. Where's the Konqrr signal?

 

[Shiizu]

Why do people think Kitana can only throw fans? How does that match-up look if the Kitana player baits Glow and then just starts turtling up on you?

Oh, and every time she tags you she's going to do 240987523740293% damage. I'd call this as even at best. Where's the Konqrr signal?

It's not easy to bait glow, since Jade uses it as a wake-up, anti-air, after a block string, or even after blocking a string that leaves Kitana at advantage. Kitana would have to be cautious at everything she does if she baits glow and turtles. This allows Jade to put in some easy pressure by mixing up throws or build meter with block strings. Point taken on the damage though, she's likely not going to have meter for breakers if she gets caught in a combo.

@THTB: I haven't tried, but I don't think U3 is fast enough to punish TKP.

 

[lobo]

i agree with kitana-jade being 6-4 jade. however, looking at the chart, i think kitana-kano should be 7-3 kano. also i'd like to know why raiden-ermac is 8-2 raiden. an 8-2 matchup has to be almost completely unwinnable. i don't see how it is THAT lopsided.

i see it on tsung-CSZ as well. why is that? i feel like, other than maybe pre-patch kitana-jax, there have not been any 8-2 matchups in the game, and there are no longer any.

bad matchups shouldn't be handed out so easily. looking over kitana, i mostly agree, but there are way too many 7-3 matchups across the board. a 7-3 matchup should be a total counterpick, not just a matter of advantage. slight advantage should still be a 5-5 for the intents of an early matchup chart. i don't think 8-2 should be used anywhere at all until more options have been explored. it will only skew the results and unnecessarily dissuade new players from using some characters.

how in the hell is ermac at disadvantage almost across the board? what? he is one of the easiest and most damaging characters in the game. he gets 45% on his wakeup reversal. that ALONE should set him at almost completely 5-5 or better. his zoning game is great. the more i look at this, the less it makes sense. to see him barely above jax and baraka makes me *facepalm* big time. his info should be completely redone.

 

[salvificblood]

i agree with kitana-jade being 6-4 jade. however, looking at the chart, i think kitana-kano should be 7-3 kano. also i'd like to know why raiden-ermac is 8-2 raiden. an 8-2 matchup has to be almost completely unwinnable. i don't see how it is THAT lopsided.

i see it on tsung-CSZ as well. why is that? i feel like, other than maybe pre-patch kitana-jax, there have not been any 8-2 matchups in the game, and there are no longer any.

bad matchups shouldn't be handed out so easily. looking over kitana, i mostly agree, but there are way too many 7-3 matchups across the board. a 7-3 matchup should be a total counterpick, not just a matter of advantage. for the intents of an early matchup chart, i don't think 8-2 should be used anywhere at all until more options have been explored. it will only skew the results and unnecessarily dissuade new players from using some characters.

When I filled in mine, I came out with Raiden and Kung lao joint 1st with 149 each, Sub-Zero at 144 and Noob Saibot at 132 (I haven't finished the matchups yet), but I didn't see some of the matchups as so lopsided, so my upper and middle tiers are going to be very close together. I kind of see it the same way as you. I don't think there ashould be so many 8-2 and 7-3 scores.

 

[DrDogg]

No offense, but it is easy to say "start your attack before Raiden fully materializes", but the attack has a tendancy not to track. You will be jabbing left yet Raiden is on the right side of the screen.

I have about 50 hours of off-line experience against a solid Raiden player. When Raiden's teleport is used wisely, you are not punishing it severely unless your name is Reptile or Kung Lao. To punish the teleport, you cannot touch the block button at any moment even before Raiden teleports. Yes, some of you may be hitting Raiden with Sub Zero's 2,2 or Kitana's 2, but the Raiden player is most likely not blocking and trying to throw or attack you. Most characters have to check Raiden with d+1 and d+3 or apply some kind of mind game that is character specific.

No offense, but you clearly missed the post I made almost immediately after the post you quoted. I can 100% CONFIRM that Raiden is at least -11 during the teleport. Your match-up experience is great and all, but I have match-up experience and frame data. I'm well aware of everything you just said, but you have AT LEAST 11 frames to punish Raiden's teleport.

Here's the post you somehow overlooked...

After about 5-10 min of testing, there's more to this than just the numbers. You have to take into account your character's position when Raiden teleports. If you happen to be facing the direction Raiden teleports to, you have at least 13 frames to hit Raiden. This situation usually occurs when Raiden teleports right after a cross up, or if either character is cornered, or if the Raiden is just spamming teleport over and over.

However, if you're not facing the same direction as Raiden, your character has to turn around before you can attack in the proper direction (or you need to use an attack that hits on both sides of your character -- Kung Lao Spin). In this situation, it looks like you have at least 11 frames to hit Raiden, and you have to have your timing down so that you start the attack as soon as your character turns around. I connected an 11-frame attack in this situation with relative ease.

I'll do more testing tomorrow to see if I can narrow it down a little more, but for now, you have at least 11 frames no matter what, and at least 13 frames in specific situations. Of course, the EX Teleport is really, really unsafe, but Raiden shouldn't really be using that anyway.

If you have any questions Id be happy to explain how I did my testing, but I can assure you that my information is confirmed. You can hit Raiden with at least an 11 frame attack given you aren't holding block (you're at disadvantage if you're holding block when Raiden teleports), and the attack has enough range.

Did some testing of my own with Noob vs. Raiden. I know, I know. eadhorse:

The verdict....

Nothing Noob did "punished" teleport. Lol It was a complete guessing game both ways in the end. Am I gonna throw, go low, block, or start a string? Is he gonna throw, go low, block, attack or superman? It does feel like 8 frames recovery imo. I even did KL's EN Spin to test this, which I believe is 7 frames (?), and punished it legitly every so often on reaction. Thunder God Raiden is God Tier. Lol

Raiden may have 8 frames of recovery on the teleport, but as I've said, you have AT LEAST 11 frames to punish him and 13 frames in specific situations. I don't understand why it's so hard for some people to believe that.

Is it difficult to punish? Yes. But these are the facts.

Exactly how much is block lag (releasing block)? I've heard a couple numbers around 3 or 4 but never an exact number.

I don't really have a good way to test this, but I'll see what I can figure out. There's definitely lag between releasing block and hitting block again. Give me a day or two and I'll come up with something.

If NRS had included a decent record function in training mode, this would be a lot easier to do, but oh well.

 

[Konqrr]

Jade vs Kitana should be 6-4 Jade I think. Ground fans get punished by dashing in and shadow kick with shadow flash active. Up close, Jade has the advantage given that she saves her meter for shadow glow.

Jade can't constantly be in glow. There is a small cooldown and a reckless Jade thinking that glow is going to protect her will run into attacks. She can't be reckless and do b1 into overhead because if I block the b1 and she commits to the overhead, I punish the overhead before it connects with 4~fan to over 40% damage. What other character can do that without meter? I just don't see Jade having a real advantage over Kitana. She can shut down fan throws, yeah, but not all the time...and Kitana isn't just about throwing fans.

 

[Shiizu]

B1 can be hitconfirmed into overhead, or shadow kick if blocked. Either way, I agree that it's a terrible move on its own, and is only good for punishes. B2 is a much more ideal move to use after Glow and even B3,2. They don't lead to as much damage as B1, but they allow her to setup an offense and pressure with a much better success rate.

Another thing that surprised me was that Jade passes through Kitana's x-ray with shadow flash.

 

[doomfarmer]

NOOB QUESTION
Can someone explain how to read these charts. This is the first fighting game i've really gotten deep into so i'm not familiar with match-up charts at all.

 

[D. R.]

Jade can't constantly be in glow. There is a small cooldown and a reckless Jade thinking that glow is going to protect her will run into attacks...

Noob vs. Jade is 2-8!!? Green glow is awesome, but not that awesome.

I think 4-6, at worst 3-7. She punishes one of my tackles with green glow, double shadow kick, I change up my gameplan. It's that simple.

 

[colt]

Raiden's teleport has 10 start up frames of being invulnerable then he "is on the other side". He then has 16 recovery frames.

Releasing block from a neutral block loop is 0 frames before you can attack (it will add 1 frame to your startup in almost all cases). If you are in a block hit reaction it is dependent on the attack that you blocked.

Attacking behind you adds 4 start up frames.

 

[Robotic]

Noob vs. Jade is 2-8!!? Green glow is awesome, but not that awesome.

I think 4-6, at worst 3-7. She punishes one of my tackles with green glow, double shadow kick, I change up my gameplan. It's that simple.

2-8 does sound crazy. Every time I hear 2-8 for any game, I assume it was a mistake on the part of the developers as the boat can't leave the docks with such a glaring problem. ANYwho...

Can we assume a good Jade player will always punish that way and your alternate gameplan now becomes your standard gameplan against Jade? If so, what does the gameplan change to and what does the matchup now become?

 

[Tremloc]

NOOB QUESTION
Can someone explain how to read these charts. This is the first fighting game i've really gotten deep into so i'm not familiar with match-up charts at all.

if you look at the spreadsheet you'll see a character in the vertical, lets say baraka, and a character in the horizontal, lets say Cyber-Sub (CS). follow where they meet and you'll see a number. In my example that number is 5. This means that baraka beats Cyber-Sub 5 out of 10 times (50%), which means a balanced matchup with neither fighter having the edge. If you look at Cyber-Sub in the vertical and Baraka(BA) in the horizontal, it will also be 5.

The guys here recently have been talking about Noob Saibot vs Jade as being 2-8. That means Noob only wins 2 out of every 10 matches(20%) against Jade, which is simply awful.

That's how I understand it anyway.

 

[DrDogg]

Raiden's teleport has 10 start up frames of being invulnerable then he "is on the other side". He then has 16 recovery frames.

Releasing block from a neutral block loop is 0 frames before you can attack (it will add 1 frame to your startup in almost all cases). If you are in a block hit reaction it is dependent on the attack that you blocked.

Attacking behind you adds 4 start up frames.

How did you calculate all of this?

I can confirm that Raiden's teleport (at least on wake-up) does not have invincibility. I've thrown Raiden out of the teleport before. There's a chance I started the throw late, but if you're saying Raiden is on the other side after 10 frames, then my throw would've missed completely.

Also, while I have not determined the exact recovery on Raiden's teleport, as I mentioned before, it's not all about the frame data. Assuming you're correct and Raiden is -16 after a teleport, you still have to factor in the number of frames it takes for your character to turn around. If you attack too soon, your character is facing the wrong direction.

 

[rover1013]

And not to forget that the assumption in all of this is that each character is theoretically played at the same (ideally high) skill level.

These also tend to change a lot throughout the life of a game as new things are discovered.

 

[Konqrr]

How did you calculate all of this?

I can confirm that Raiden's teleport (at least on wake-up) does not have invincibility. I've thrown Raiden out of the teleport before. There's a chance I started the throw late, but if you're saying Raiden is on the other side after 10 frames, then my throw would've missed completely.

Also, while I have not determined the exact recovery on Raiden's teleport, as I mentioned before, it's not all about the frame data. Assuming you're correct and Raiden is -16 after a teleport, you still have to factor in the number of frames it takes for your character to turn around. If you attack too soon, your character is facing the wrong direction.

Dude, that's Paulo Garcia from NRS ... I'd say whatever frame data he throws at you is right.

 

[lobo]

rofl noob jade 'is' 2-8 also?

i'm sorry but this chart is sort of a total joke. there are no 2-8 matchups. that is TERRIBLE. it seems to me like a majority of this chart is based off of "omg they can counter mindless online spam = 7-3 or worse".

the idea of a 2-8 matchup 3 months into the game is laughable.

THTB, you should really designate 4-5 top players to fill in the chart, average them and ignore everyone else (including myself) because LOL. the thing is 1/3 full and so horribly wrong already. i mean...ermac is barely better than baraka and jax? how does than not ring false? hell his wakeup reversal alone makes him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

i'd rather see what the top guys think than have any sort of input myself.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

btw Why is Stryker vs Baraka only 5-5? Baraka can't build meter at all and he needs meter to get through. Every single Baraka I played against, online or offline were totally dominated and couldn't even get close to me. He's even easier to deal with than Kitana and Kano.

Raiden's teleport has 10 start up frames of being invulnerable then he "is on the other side". He then has 16 recovery frames.

Releasing block from a neutral block loop is 0 frames before you can attack (it will add 1 frame to your startup in almost all cases). If you are in a block hit reaction it is dependent on the attack that you blocked.

Attacking behind you adds 4 start up frames.

Wow, he has more recovery than I thought. So any 12 frames or under should technically be able to punish Raiden's teleport if we have good enough reaction?

Damn I need to practice my reaction more because 50% of the time CPU Raiden is able to block my 7f uppercut. Which means I react 6 frames (0.1 seconds) too late.

But if Raiden REALLY is invulnerable in his start up frames, then how come I was able to shoot him out of his teleport a few times? I'm pretty sure he has a few strike vulnerable frames in his start up animation. I've also seen jump punch hit Raiden as he was trying to teleport. But maybe that was before the patch?

 

[salvificblood]

Noob vs Jade is definitely not a 2-8. It's a 4-6 in Jade's favour at the very worst for Noob Saibot. 2-8 is scandalous, lol.

Also, I don't understand why Sub-Zero is given a 4-6 against both Cyrax and Ermac. I would have thought both matchups are 5-5. Sub has way more tools than Cyrax or Ermac up close...

The debates I can see resulting from these matchup scores.

i mean...ermac is barely better than baraka and jax? how does than not ring false? hell his wakeup reversal alone makes him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

I just noticed that, lol. I think this will be revised a fair bit, to say the least.