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Mortal Kombat (2011) Matchup Chart

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
All numbers except for the two random ones and kitana were done by Tom Brady AFAIK

Let him explain himself
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
It's probably gonna be best to get the top players for each character to discuss the entire chart.
 

colt

Elder God
Elder God
NetherRealm Studios
But if Raiden REALLY is invulnerable in his start up frames, then how come I was able to shoot him out of his teleport a few times? I'm pretty sure he has a few strike vulnerable frames in his start up animation. I've also seen jump punch hit Raiden as he was trying to teleport. But maybe that was before the patch?
The effects run first then he's invun it's possible to hit on the frame frame of the teleport after the effects but before he's invun.
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
rofl noob jade 'is' 2-8 also?

i'm sorry but this chart is sort of a total joke. there are no 2-8 matchups. that is TERRIBLE. it seems to me like a majority of this chart is based off of "omg they can counter mindless online spam = 7-3 or worse".

the idea of a 2-8 matchup 3 months into the game is laughable.

THTB, you should really designate 4-5 top players to fill in the chart, average them and ignore everyone else (including myself) because LOL. the thing is 1/3 full and so horribly wrong already. i mean...ermac is barely better than baraka and jax? how does than not ring false? hell his wakeup reversal alone makes him waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better.

i'd rather see what the top guys think than have any sort of input myself.
Its not 2-8.

On paper it might seem this way, but its most definitely not. The match does go in favor of Jade, but its not as easy as it sounds.

Jade is one of the best characters in this game, and imo an S tier character. The only characters that can actually beat Jade, are characters like Sektor who can shut her meter game down. Jade is an all around meter character. You will not win with Jade if you're either not using meter, or not using it correctly.

Sektor is one of those characters that can keep Jade away. She cant punish the flame from far distance which is where he will keep her, and she cant make the fastest meter in this situation because her boomerangs are way too risky and slow to throw out against Sketor. He can easily teleport combo into a lot of damage, so while Jade cant make the meter she usually could. Sektor can by shooting missiles and keeping her at a distance with the flame thrower. She cant just EN Glow like other characters either because she doesn't have the opportunities to use random meter like she can on other characters due to the match making it hard for her to get it in the first place.

Now that we have established the kind of character Jade is, and the kind of characters that can shut her down. Lets get down to the basics.

In this match, Noob cant abuse his clone like he would on other characters. You don't exactly zone by throwing out clones all day, nor can he stop Jade from making meter. However, As noob throws out clones, he keeps one trait that he has against everyone, and that's Meter Management. Noob is making meter as he throws out clones, so he can use his EN Clone which actually does stop Jades glow, as well as other shenanigans like teleporting.

Jade is also making meter while this is happening, so she can bait out clones and EN Shadow Kick them, EN Glow, and EN Boomerang. This is the reason why Jade beats Noob, but just the fact that Jade cant entirely shut down Noobs meter making, gives noob some advantage. This becomes a game of footsies, patience and opportunities on whiff punishment.

These two characters rely on meter in this match. Jade has more tools to beat Noob, but neither really shut down their own meter process.
 

D. R.

Kombatant
2-8 does sound crazy. Every time I hear 2-8 for any game, I assume it was a mistake on the part of the developers as the boat can't leave the docks with such a glaring problem. ANYwho...

Can we assume a good Jade player will always punish that way and your alternate gameplan now becomes your standard gameplan against Jade? If so, what does the gameplan change to and what does the matchup now become?
Basically, Noob can't spam tackle recklessly against her full screen or she can green glow, dash and punish with her double shadow kick for only 8% damage. Not too bad in my book. Her green glow also nullifes his slide and blackhole, but NOT his upknee. He's forced to fight her more aggressive with pokes, upknee spam, strings and throws, which Noob can do to an extent. Her saving grace upclose that does put the match in her favor is EN glow. I try and bait her to glow and instead she does EN, I'm dealing with Colossus now. She can then force 50/50 down my throat with :fk :bk or :fk xx :d :l :bp. Her rushdown isn't exactly scary imo because her overhead is slow as hell and she has no low combo starters, except the one I just mentioned, so Noob can space her out. His :r :fk :fk string really controls space well up close and can be dash cancelled into itself again, cancelled into upknee, or cancelled into whatever. Still though, a character forcing another character out of their zone is predicting the fight. Therefore, 6-4 Jade.

Viable debate. Any solid Jade players have input on this?

Edit: Krayzie Bone in before my page refreshed. lol
 

Krayzie

Co-founder
Administrator
Founder
IMO, for Jade matchups there are too many 5-5's...

Jade vs Ermac should be 6-4 Ermac. His TK push shuts down her mid-range game, and she has to approach more cautiously. Her staff is not going to do her much good. Her best option is to wait for Ermac to approach, and use Shadow Glow to create an opening for a combo.

Jade vs Kitana should be 6-4 Jade I think. Ground fans get punished by dashing in and shadow kick with shadow flash active. Up close, Jade has the advantage given that she saves her meter for shadow glow.
Not entirely true, on the Ermac theory. Jade can shadow kick Ermac 100% off a blocked Push, and as you try and bait out a glowing Jade, its much much easier for me to just block. None of Ermacs strings have enough advantage to stop me from going into EN Glow, nor can he stop Jade from approaching.

Now that Kitana/Jade match I can agree with.


Jade can't constantly be in glow. There is a small cooldown and a reckless Jade thinking that glow is going to protect her will run into attacks. She can't be reckless and do b1 into overhead because if I block the b1 and she commits to the overhead, I punish the overhead before it connects with 4~fan to over 40% damage. What other character can do that without meter? I just don't see Jade having a real advantage over Kitana. She can shut down fan throws, yeah, but not all the time...and Kitana isn't just about throwing fans.
If you shut down her fans, then she is forced to approach Jade. Keep in mind, you are now approaching a Jade with full meter, and Super Armor.
 

TrickyNick

Weather Man
KrayzieBone and myself had some very good fights between my noob and his jade and i have to say he is 100% correct on building meter and playing footsies. Its not a huge disadvantage for noob against jade, but when she goes ex green i get really nervous lol
 

Shiizu

Theory Fighter
Pretty much agree with what Krayzie said, especially his assessment on Jade.

Edit: Interesting tidbits on Jade vs Ermac, I probably just need to experiment with Shadow kick as a punish more often lol. What are your thoughts on the Jade vs Scorpion matchup by the way? This was one of the only other matchups which I felt was slightly against Jade's favor, mainly due to hellfire. Hellfire makes the opponent jump in fear of getting caught if they stay on the ground for too long. Jade doesn't have a strong aerial game, which allows Scorpion to play mixups with hellfire and AA spear if Jade is anywhere further than mid-range.
 

cirkusfreaksho

All in a day's work
whats with all these horrible match ups for sindel??? this chart is a joke...i dont have a hard time with sindel at all....thats just my opinion but i dont think shes bad as the chart says wow!!!
 

DrDogg

Kombatant
Dude, that's Paulo Garcia from NRS ... I'd say whatever frame data he throws at you is right.
I didn't know that was Paulo, but I also didn't say his frame data was wrong. That said, it seems as though he's at least a little bit incorrect about the invincibility on Raiden's teleport. We already have two people in this thread bearing witness to Raiden being hit out of the initial frames of the teleport.

And with all due respect, just because he works for NRS and helped design the game does not mean that he knows more than the competitive players (at least as far as this discussion goes). If Paulo has 100% accurate frame data, it would be ridiculously awesome if he saved us some time and just gave it all to us. Unfortunately, NRS hasn't done that, and I've heard more than one incorrect statement from NRS employees about MK9.

Again, all due respect to Paulo. I appreciate his input in this topic, but I'm not just going to take his word as fact (in this instance) without at least asking a few questions and trying to figure out why his calculations differ from ours.

Wow, he has more recovery than I thought. So any 12 frames or under should technically be able to punish Raiden's teleport if we have good enough reaction?

Damn I need to practice my reaction more because 50% of the time CPU Raiden is able to block my 7f uppercut. Which means I react 6 frames (0.1 seconds) too late. :p

But if Raiden REALLY is invulnerable in his start up frames, then how come I was able to shoot him out of his teleport a few times? I'm pretty sure he has a few strike vulnerable frames in his start up animation. I've also seen jump punch hit Raiden as he was trying to teleport. But maybe that was before the patch?
Keep in mind that your character has to turn around before you can attack Raiden post-teleport. So assuming Paulo is correct and Raiden is -16, how many frames does it take for your character to turn around? In this instance, I'd guess at least 3-5 frames. I can connect an 11 frame attack to punish the teleport, but have not been successful with anything higher except for very specific situations.
 

DanCock

Cock Master!!
whats with all these horrible match ups for sindel??? this chart is a joke...i dont have a hard time with sindel at all....thats just my opinion but i dont think shes bad as the chart says wow!!!
so far it looks pretty spot on minus the ermac one saying its a 5-5 match.. i think its a 6-4 match in ermacs favor..


what i want to know is how does NIghtwolf fair vs reptile? i have decided to use him as my S tier main, as i looked at him as a possible good match up vs reptile..
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
It's kinda even, as far as I can tell...likely in Nightwolf's favor. Reptile can't use forceballs to keepaway, but he can use them for baits. Also, EX shoulder lol.
 

DrDogg

Kombatant
So does Raiden have a single bad match-up? He is by far the hardest match-up I have no matter which character I use. I find I have better luck switching to Raiden myself, and I don't even play Raiden. >_<
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Also, I don't understand why Sub-Zero is given a 4-6 against both Cyrax and Ermac. I would have thought both matchups are 5-5. Sub has way more tools than Cyrax or Ermac up close...
I think it's because Sub can't confirm 22 is blocked and safely go into his 224~clone because Ermac can bf1 punish it on reaction.

As for Cyrax, it's because Cyrax forces Sub to move and it hurts his gameplan.

This is speculation as I don't play Sub on a level that others do, nor do I have matchup experience with Sub against Ermac OR Cyrax... so take it as you will.
 
Cyber-Sub is really underrated against Raiden. Not saying he beats him handily, but if Cyber-Sub is used to his fullest potential I think it's 5-5 at worst. This is just in my experience
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
DrDogg said:
So does Raiden have a single bad match-up? He is by far the hardest match-up I have no matter which character I use. I find I have better luck switching to Raiden myself, and I don't even play Raiden. >_<
The following are Raiden's weaknesses as far as I know.

- Bad distance game. Raiden's fireball is pretty mediocre. Any character with a teleport can punish Raiden fairly easily. The regular and enhanced fireball can both be crouched. No one should be blocking them. You don't want to allow Raiden to build any meter.

- Bad anti-aerial game. Raiden's AA game is anything but spectacular. His d+2 is slow. I think he struggles with cross up jumping punches and kicks in particular. He has to burn some meter to escape safely. If he uses the teleport, anticipate it and be ready to apply some kind of mix up if you cannot punish in time.

- Risk vs. reward ratio is in your favor when he is grounded. Teleport has no invincibility frames when it is used as a wake up attack. Only the Electric Fly does. You may also see enhanced d,f+2 because of armor, but it hits high. The point is that the risk vs. reward ratio is in your favor to apply some pressure. Electric Fly does 10% of damage, but should you block it, make Raiden pay with your biggest combo.

- b+3,1,2 and 3,3,4. You can interrupt each hit of b+3,1,2 with moderately fast moves that have armor. You can also interrupt the last hit of 3,3,4 with moderately fast moves that have armor.

- Know your anti-teleport strategies. If you are playing character X, you should know exactly what character X can do to counter the teleport. Even if character X has difficulties punishing the teleport, think about generic alternatives like d+3 and jumping forward, which crosses up Raiden.

With that said, Old Kano used to be Raiden's toughest match up in my opinion. The fast and safe Up Ball made Raiden's life very hard. Now days I would think that Kung Lao is his most difficult match up. I am no Sub Zero expert but I would actually try and stay in the corner with Sub Zero. If you do a corner Ice Clone and Raiden teleports, he freezes automatically.
 
Kitana vs jade is 5-5. All jade has is ex glow and free meter from green glow. Great tools, but in my experience one good guess from kit is about the same as 2 from jade. Also my launchers are safe and easily used in the midrange battle, your midrange launchers that are safe either detract from your true threat ex glow or dont deal dmg. Personally I agree your tools give kit problems, but jades midscreen dmg when compared to kits is miniscule. Also if you dont have a meter your not scary in anyway unlike kit.

If noob is 4-6 kit isnt 4-6.
 

Zebster

How's my volume?
So how does Scorpion fare in all of this? Just curious, because not much talk about him and I almost never see any tournament matches with him.
 

EVB SomeCubanGuy

*Hissssssssssss*
A disagree with a few of Baraka's matchups:

Cyrax - 4-6. Should be 5-5
Jade - 5-5. Should be 4-6
Jax -5-5. Should be 6-4
Johnny Cage - 3-7. Should be 4-6
Kabal - 4-6. Should be 5-5
Kitana - 3-7. Should be 4-6
Mileena - 4-6. Should be 5-5
Scorpion - 5-5. Should be 6-4
Sektor - 4-6. Should be 5-5
Shang Tsung - 4-6. Should be 5-5
Smoke - 5-5. Should be 6-4

Purely just opinion, but since we're just throwing out numbers I'd figure I'd put my two cents in as well.
 
So how does Scorpion fare in all of this? Just curious, because not much talk about him and I almost never see any tournament matches with him.
Kano forum seems to think he is a hard match because he can shutdown knife so easily.

Only thing that makes raiden hard to deal with is teleport, if I didnt punch forward half the time amd the other half have him duck my 2 I dont think hed be a bad matchup for kit, but damn is punishing that shit hard even when twitching for it.

Looks like thunder queer is strongest for #1 when I checked yesterday, of course the character with easy ways around projectile zonimg in a game heavily centered on zoning for a lot character would be strong.
 

Kwon

---->----
So does Raiden have a single bad match-up? He is by far the hardest match-up I have no matter which character I use. I find I have better luck switching to Raiden myself, and I don't even play Raiden. >_<
4:40 in this vid