MKXL Hotfix Notes 3-8-2016

[TheEighth]

Y

Are you aiming the missiles in front?

Are you aiming the missiles in front?

Yes bruh.. You can literally run under them lol I'll record it.. It's not even hard lol it takes a little timing but once the missiles reach a certain there target is predetermined

 

[Agilaz]

By the way, I just played a set against a Cyrax player.

If net hits, it traps you longer than up missile did. Also, while trapped in the net I ate some juicy 40% meterless combos. That is, when I wasn't get blown up by ridiculous HTB's.

Yet nobody is saying a word about this shit, instead maintaining their position about Sektor's up missile being broken previously.

You people are hilarious. And biased. And hypocrites. Nothing anybody says is going to reverse the nerfs Sektor got, so as far as I'm concerned this conversation is done. Time to sit back and get lectured again by people who didn't even touch the character.

 

[Rude]

By the way, I just played a set against a Cyrax player.

If net hits, it traps you longer than up missile did. Also, while trapped in the net I ate some juicy 40% meterless combos. That is, when I wasn't get blown up by ridiculous HTB's.

Yet nobody is saying a word about this shit, instead maintaining their position about Sektor's up missile being broken previously.

You people are hilarious. And biased. And hypocrites. Nothing anybody says is going to reverse the nerfs Sektor got, so as far as I'm concerned this conversation is done. Time to sit back and get lectured again by people who didn't even touch the character.

Net is a re-capture special. Like Spear or Trance.

Up Missile was never supposed to be.

Hurr-durr.

 

[Agilaz]

Net is a re-capture special. Like Spear or Trance.

Up Missile was never supposed to be.

Hurr-durr.

A recapture that takes forever to expire.

Conveniently leaving out the meterless damage as well, very typical of biased players. I'm sure you'll reply with something snarky and/or name calling in order to bait likes, but if you're gonna be this biased at least make it a bit less subtle.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

When you have several people suggesting that you can consistently react with a move in less than 16 frames you know signifying the discussion with further responses is insane.

These people are either absolutely ****ing clueless or straight up lie.

Wow.

 

[STRYKIE]

People also complained about Lao not being viable, before he was majorly buffed. There's no guarantee it works this way; but if it does, it goes both ways.

Mileena in XL is now better than she's ever been, so you can then chalk that up to the same as well.

Just for the record I'm not sure if the Tempest Lao example really applies, the variation was more "reverted" than buffed per se in that one patch. I won't out anyone on this but remember how NRS also ditched the 5 frame Tempest EX Spin in the same patch? It wasn't a coincidence...

 

[THTB]

Y


Yes bruh.. You can literally run under them lol I'll record it.. It's not even hard lol it takes a little timing but once the missiles reach a certain there target is predetermined

I tested this with Sektor, Smoke, Alien, and Tremor. Setting all of them to jump back to full screen.

What I found was as long as you're running forward before the game puts the falling projectile on screen, you will run right past it. Smoke's projectile catches even Jacqui in front beforehand, so it doesn't suffer from this. This works with the other 3, however, but you literally have to be running well before it even gets to the active frames.

To punish it by running under, there's specific timings, though. Too early and you'll get hit while attacking, too late and you don't pass by the missiles. Realistically, I can see it happening a lot in a match if you just do upmissiles and aren't really altering up your zoning well. Otherwise, it's honestly not as bad as you say.

 

[thlityoursloat]

Sektor being significantly plus after up missile on hit is not okay, but SZ and Ermac being significantly plus? pfft, totally fine.
I never understood the need for people to MASSIVELY over exaggerate the strength of DLC characters, especially when, relatively speaking, we already have some disgusting characters from the original cast.

 

[TheEighth]

I tested this with Sektor, Smoke, Alien, and Tremor. Setting all of them to jump back to full screen.

What I found was as long as you're running forward before the game puts the falling projectile on screen, you will run right past it. Smoke's projectile catches even Jacqui in front beforehand, so it doesn't suffer from this. This works with the other 3, however, but you literally have to be running well before it even gets to the active frames.

To punish it by running under, there's specific timings, though. Too early and you'll get hit while attacking, too late and you don't pass by the missiles. Realistically, I can see it happening a lot in a match if you just do upmissiles and aren't really altering up your zoning well. Otherwise, it's honestly not as bad as you say.

Once you get the hang of it you'll do it every time on reaction.. My friend and I both do it.. But I respect the fact that you actually went into the lab and tested it..

 

[Afumba]

Sektor being significantly plus after up missile on hit is not okay, but SZ and Ermac being significantly plus? pfft, totally fine.
I never understood the need for people to MASSIVELY over exaggerate the strength of DLC characters, especially when, relatively speaking, we already have some disgusting characters from the original cast.

While in my oppinion Sektor should be able to teleport combo on uprocket hit... bringing up Ermacs SB to make a point for Sektor is silly in so many ways...

 

[TopTierHarley]

You're all, as Biscuits would say, baddie fucks.

 

[Matador Fiend]

By the way, I just played a set against a Cyrax player.

If net hits, it traps you longer than up missile did. Also, while trapped in the net I ate some juicy 40% meterless combos. That is, when I wasn't get blown up by ridiculous HTB's.

Yet nobody is saying a word about this shit, instead maintaining their position about Sektor's up missile being broken previously.

You people are hilarious. And biased. And hypocrites. Nothing anybody says is going to reverse the nerfs Sektor got, so as far as I'm concerned this conversation is done. Time to sit back and get lectured again by people who didn't even touch the character.

youre wrong. There are plenty of players who think cyraxs hardtoblockables need a few extra frames to be more fair, myself included

 

[Rude]

A recapture that takes forever to expire.

Conveniently leaving out the meterless damage as well, very typical of biased players. I'm sure you'll reply with something snarky and/or name calling in order to bait likes, but if you're gonna be this biased at least make it a bit less subtle.

You missed the point entirely.

Net = Recapture Special Move.

Up Rockets = Not A Recapture Special Move.

So it stands to reason that one has more hit advantage than the other.

Also, what does Cyrax's meterless damage have anything to do with the actual argument? You brought that up out of nowhere.

How am I biased? I don't play ANY of the Robots.

Durr-hurr.

 

[TheEighth]

Who said it was top tier? Just because it's not RC pressure doesn't make it bad. I'm saying that if you're not confident in you ability to hit confirm, you could run in and use a safe blockstring. Or you could run in, poke, then use a blockstring. Or you could throw. You could cross up. In fact you could cross up and if you read an AA, use air charge or MB Uppercut.

Or..you could run in and do your 50/50

Also, you're not risking your life. If you use up missile and you think they're going to run in, you can have them land in front of you.

In fact, this whole "run in" horse shit is pretty stupid as a talking point. You have a lot of options in the nuetral to deal with running. Straight missile, EN flame thrower, pokes, f13, etc.

So they start ducking on anticipation for the straight missile and you do up missile instead. How do you think every other character with a high projectile (i.e. most of them) make it work?

Holy shit. Up Missile might actually require us to use the gray matter between our ears.

IN THE TRASH BIN!!!

Ight this might be my last reply to you for obvious reasons.. If I read a jump why would I air charge? Why would I MB tele? I've had that wiff on neutral jumps before lol you literally have no idea what you're talking about.. And you don't have enough time to cross someone up lol are you trying to get me bodied with this garbage advise? I can only imagine how you play lol and who sits there neutral crouching in anticipation of a straight missile? If you're full screen react, if you're close block it and body him tf? And as I explained to the other guy you can run under front up rocket.. And what do you mean require "us" you clearly don't use sektor lol that's apparent when you told me to stop run ins by using EN flamethrower lol

 

[Baconlord]

Or make his EX Phase have the same speed/recovery as Mileena's EX Fade.

I don't think you know much about ex fade

 

[THTB]

Once you get the hang of it you'll do it every time on reaction.. My friend and I both do it.. But I respect the fact that you actually went into the lab and tested it..

I don't see this being that big that upmissiles are useless at high level play. Yeah on a good read, you can snag him out without getting hit, but at that level, under that pressure...idk.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

So THIS is the hotfixed version of up missile, huh?

Looks to me as if it has been nerfed to hell and beyond. What made it dumb in its initial form was how it had so much hitstun that every trade led to a combo for Sektor. Obviously, that needed to go -- but this was FAR too much, no? I see very little reason to throw out that move now other than for setups on downed opponents and to cancel into from strings up close for further pressure.

It's such a damn shame because the up missiles felt like such a fun tool in MKX ... and nerfing ("fixing") it this much doesn't seem anywhere near justified given the tools of say Cyrax, or many of the pre-KP2 characters as well.

Guess it's back to throwing out risky straight missiles hoping for 8% damage while characters like Cyrax get hard-to-jump and uncrouchable projectiles that lead into 30+ meterless damage and a vortex.

...
...
...

you have to be kidding me.

first off when your up missiles are 106 frames of startup you can bitch, kind of like oh yeah Cyrax.

2. not nerfed fixed... no character in this game should be able to convert off a full screen projectile into full combo!

3. he is fine, is it not enough that you get a free move after hit on up rockets?

4. did i here that right? hard to jump, uncrouchable projectiles. first of all they are not considered projectiles in this game, since there entire travel they are not active which is far longer than a second. they are not hard to jump, but lets just ask why would you even try to do that anyways. you can run right past them and pun ish him full screen with his 73 frames of recovery! and why on gods green earth are you crouching them at all.. that your moment to punish, no wonder your having issues with them!


next time when you see a bomb get thrown out without a HKD first, do he right thing and run forward and punish, and lets say he uses Net because your reactions are slow. block it, then you have 18 frames to punish that.

your problems are solved.

 

[SHAOLIN]

I've said it before & I'll say it again:

Theory fighting gets you no where, especially on this forum.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

you have to be kidding me.

first off when your up missiles are 106 frames of startup you can bitch, kind of like oh yeah Cyrax.

2. not nerfed fixed... no character in this game should be able to convert off a full screen projectile into full combo!

3. he is fine, is it not enough that you get a free move after hit on up rockets?

4. did i here that right? hard to jump, uncrouchable projectiles. first of all they are not considered projectiles in this game, since there entire travel they are not active which is far longer than a second. they are not hard to jump, but lets just ask why would you even try to do that anyways. you can run right past them and pun ish him full screen with his 73 frames of recovery! and why on gods green earth are you crouching them at all.. that your moment to punish, no wonder your having issues with them!


next time when you see a bomb get thrown out without a HKD first, do he right thing and run forward and punish, and lets say he uses Net because your reactions are slow. block it, then you have 18 frames to punish that.

your problems are solved.

1. Because Cyrax has the same properties on his moves, huh?

2. I don't care if they claim they were fixed. Doesn't even sound very credible considering how weird it looks with the opponent recovering INSTANTLY after the third rocket. Other moves don't work like that. And regardless, it was given too little hitstun.

Oh, is that so? No character in the game should be able to convert a full screen projectile into a combo? Oh, so Cyrax, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Reptile and others lost this ability as well now? And Cassie, her up missile doesn't pop up for a full combo into knockdown either? Hm, I did not know this.

3. He is not fine. And he wasn't fine. They should have nerfed hitstun to avoid trade into combo but leave a big enough window to hitconfrm. 65 frames would have been reasonable. This is not.

4. It is a projectile. And why are you talking about punishing net up close when we're talking neutral? Uh, -18 frames? Yeah. Same goes for Sektor's rocket -- which deals 8% freaking damage instead of net's 30%+ damage that leads into hard-to-blockables. If Sektor wants to combo off of overhead he has to either use a bar preemptively and pray on two different occasions that the combo does't whiff, or commit to a hitconfirm into a bar of meter which leaves you at -13 at block.

Don't compare butchered Sektor to Cyrax. Or rather, please do. Gives us an opportunity to broadcast just how poorly balanced this is.

 

[Rude]

Ight this might be my last reply to you for obvious reasons.. If I read a jump why would I air charge? Why would I MB tele? I've had that wiff on neutral jumps before lol you literally have no idea what you're talking about.. And you don't have enough time to cross someone up lol are you trying to get me bodied with this garbage advise? I can only imagine how you play lol and who sits there neutral crouching in anticipation of a straight missile? If you're full screen react, if you're close block it and body him tf? And as I explained to the other guy you can run under front up rocket.. And what do you mean require "us" you clearly don't use sektor lol that's apparent when you told me to stop run ins by using EN flamethrower lol

You didn't understand a single thing I said.

Sweet Jesus.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

You know ... the nerf apologists are generally clueless players that are not only objectively, scientifically wrong, but also contradict themselves.

Apparently Sektor players should be able to react in 15 frames, but those who are up against Sektor can't react and punish him during the long-ass startup (30+ frames from start till he can move again) of his up missiles.

"Haha, he can go for pressure by canceling into up missiles from normals!" (assuming people won't punish it)
"Haha, if you can't hitconfirm in 15 frames (humanly impossible basically) you suck!"

And this incoherent "reasoning" is what NRS cater to.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

1. Because Cyrax has the same properties on his moves, huh?

2. I don't care if they claim they were fixed. Doesn't even sound very credible considering how weird it looks with the opponent recovering INSTANTLY after the third rocket. Other moves don't work like that. And regardless, it was given too little hitstun.

Oh, is that so? No character in the game should be able to convert a full screen projectile into a combo? Oh, so Cyrax, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Reptile and others lost this ability as well now? And Cassie, her up missile doesn't pop up for a full combo into knockdown either? Hm, I did not know this.

3. He is not fine. And he wasn't fine. They should have nerfed hitstun to avoid trade into combo but leave a big enough window to hitconfrm. 65 frames would have been reasonable. This is not.

4. It is a projectile. And why are you talking about punishing net up close when we're talking neutral? Uh, -18 frames? Yeah. Same goes for Sektor's rocket -- which deals 8% freaking damage instead of net's 30%+ damage that leads into hard-to-blockables. If Sektor wants to combo off of overhead he has to either use a bar preemptively and pray on two different occasions that the combo does't whiff, or commit to a hitconfirm into a bar of meter which leaves you at -13 at block.

Don't compare butchered Sektor to Cyrax. Or rather, please do. Gives us an opportunity to broadcast just how poorly balanced this is.

cyrax's net does zero damage, and yes you can combo off it.. but characters like sektor, can punish it fullscreen on block,, scorpion can do this as well. and you get more than 30% punish off uprocket close to full screen.. you didnt need 50+ frames on hit with up rockets and you know it. my brother is a Sektor main, and straight up said, that seemed normalized, he even thought it was cheap as hell that he could do up rocket, i use bar of meter to get the trade and after getting up he could still full combo punish me after i made a hard read, and did the correct response, and might i add i spent a bar of meter on it, and i get full combo punished into what you ask, another unreactible rocket setup.

why i call it unreactible, is because at the last second you can tell rockets to go far, lockon or behind me. and thats a guessing game, if i want to punish normal up rockets i could do an advancing move after you use up rockets close to full combo punish you on a hard read, and if you make them in front of me aka on top of you, i get punished for doing the advancing move.

it was 54frames and your saying 65 is reasonable? i question your judgment.

do you even realize what you can do after 65 frames which is more than an entire second!

who in the world needs 1 second to hit confirm? on hit(lock on missiles) i can still hit confirm teleport uppercut into full combo and make myself safe if they manage to block it cuz i messed up timing.

they took it from 54 to 43.. and honestly thats fine.. but it being 54 was not.

its not ok to get away with murder. if your opponent makes a hard read and guesses right, you should be punished. you can't just expect to get free pressure after making a wrong move.


the only way you have even been effected by that nerf is if you based your entire game around spamming "Lock On Missiles"

then i can see you having a problem using him now.. but honestly, out of the triborgs he has alot more tools than many of them in the neutral and better AA.

,

, and

don't have any viable standing armor like
(cyrax has Shrapnel Port for wakups, but it gets stuffed, yours can't)

does, yours isn't just armor wakeup, its an armor breaking armor, and on hit can be comfirmed into another flame.
with your EXDB2 you can break armor in the corner.
you have plenty mids that you can use in the neutral, while cyrax struggles with getting low profiles and poked to death.
your characters has some of the best zoning in the game, decent close up, and great footsies, your D3 has long range with that flame added to his foot.


2.

Oh, so Cyrax, Sub-Zero, Smoke, Reptile and others lost this ability as well now? And Cassie, her up missile doesn't pop up for a full combo into knockdown either? Hm, I did not know this.

lol for starters i didn't say it wasn't possible for other characters to do this! i said they shouldn't... but im fine with most the others since their data and advantages are different is the difference, yours was 52 and is advantageous on block, and was ungodly advantagious on hit...

cyrax is 106 off his bombs (tele punishable and projectile punishable Seems fair to me),
smokes isn't multi hitting and is a mid(smoke bomb) that starts up 31 frames and his oh full screen starter costs a bar of meter, starts up at 25 frames and is -46 on block(seems fair to me),
Reptiles starts up at 33 frames and is -14 on block( not advantageous on block)
Cassies dont get more pressure from you blocking it full screen.


bet none of theirs when traded allowed them to still convert after getting up from being uppercutted or MB Special canceled? thats the point i was making(thats what was cheap about it) if they didnt remove it then every time it hit reguardless if the opponent made the right read, they where punished. and one of those rockets always heat seeked you down, even if you teleported, ran, crossed over or throwed to switch sides. even if you timed it correctly!



4. your up rockets are not -18 on block, the game states +18 on block(which i doubt its that plus but still its not negative) and its positive 43 on hit(obviously there are moves that have more hitstun but they juggle) how are you only getting 8% damage to my 30% you can hit confirm it anywhere from 1st frame on hit to the 43rd frame on hit into alot more than 30%

If Sektor wants to combo off of overhead he has to either use a bar preemptively and pray on two different occasions that the combo does't whiff, or commit to a hitconfirm into a bar of meter which leaves you at -13 at block.

what? you can hit confirm all oh options, even his B1-2+4 MB and btw his B1-2+4 is -11 on block but its worth mentioning that you can also hit confirm his B1 into the 2+4 so if its on block don't press 2+4 which makes you unsafe, you could even DD3 which from what PND ketchup said has so much pushback that you are safe on block from most of the cast.
and B1 is an overhead and is very safe on block at -1
and he has plenty of options to land oh you can even use B3D4 every once in a while as well. may take some conditioning but you can get them with meterless OH starters that are safe on block if you hit confirm. maybe try some JIP's to start your lows thoise are Plus 2 on block.

so i don't know what your even talking about.

 

[Guds Skyfall]

You said no character should be able to combo full screen as a justification for removing this ability from Sektor selectively. So, in a context where lots of others can do this, it's fair to remove it from Sektor only? It definitely isn't.

It was way more than 54 frames in total initially. Way, way more. I'm sitting here with the unnerfed version and they cut off a huge part of the staggering. Whatever frame window lets you hit confim into it from afar if paying attention is fair, I reckon. It was the trade that wasn't fair and needed to be fixed. That, and the tracking.

As for missiles being -18 on block I was referring to the straight missile, not up missile (which is plus).

Uh, what? You can't hitconfirm his overhead into the follow-up which can be ex-ed. Absolutely impossible. Going by that logic you would so be able hitconfirm Cyrax's net, Smoke's smoke bomb and CSZ's freeze from the first hit of the overhead which would lead to similar results WITHOUT the cost of bar. I don't understand why you would make this claim! Test it in practice yourself.

B3D4 is decent but leads to no damage and is universal for the cyborgs. Sektor's njp is inferior to CSZ's equivalent, and Cyrax's too IIRC.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

You said no character should be able to combo full screen a a justification for removing this ability from Sektor selectively. So, in a context where lots of others can do this, it's fair to remove it from Sektor only? It definitely isn't.

It was way more than 54 frames in total initially. Way, way more. I'm sitting here with the unnerfed version and they cut off a huge part of the staggering. Whatever frame window lets you hit confim into it from afar if paying ttention is fair, I reckon. It was the trade that wasn't fair and needed to be fixed. That, and the tracking.

As for missiles being -18 on block I was referring to the straight missile, not up missile (which is plus).

Uh, what? You can't hitconfirm his overhead into the follow-up which can be ex-ed. Absolutely impossible. Going by that logic you would so be able hitconfirm Cyrax's net, Smoke's smoke bomb and CSZ's freeze from the first hit of the overhead which would lead to similar results WITHOUT the cost of bar. I don't understand why you would make this claim! Test it in practice yourself.

B3D4 is decent but leads to no damage and is universal for the cyborgs. Sektor's njp is inferior to CSZ's equivalent, and Cyrax's too IIRC.

ok let me clear it up for you, hit stun should not be full screen comboable.

juggle projectiles are fine.. you do realize those other moves are completely different than that one dont you.. the problem isnt that you can combo off it.... its that if we both trade at the same time because i made a good read, and i D2 you you where able to combo me after getting up.. thats how long your hitstun was! it was BS, now its more normalized...


tell me what you are having problems with now, since i dont understand.


i can still on hit, teleport from full screen into full combo? so whats the problem? how is it ruined?

look dude im not arguing to argue.. i can along with many others hit confirm moves.. just ask others on here if i could hit confirm Kotal Sungods, B14 into Grab... i could basically mess around with the online scrubbs with B14 over and over hit em with it repediately untill they blocked and then id hit confirm the DB2. to get around 18%.. not a good strategy btw... just messing around online.


@SaltShaker

can you hitconfirm A back 1 with triborg into a special move?

like smokes B1 into Smoke bomb or Sektors B1 into tele uppercut? or Cyraxes B1 into net or Cyber sub zeros B1 into 2+4 MB?

i do it with sound but just wondering if you do it? and how you do it?

 

[Guds Skyfall]

Check the video. You can't hitconfirm into that. 43 - 26 = 17. Add to that that you won't be able to execute teleport uppercut on the first frame and you have a hitconfirm that requires you to react in 16 frames OR LESS. Not viable at all.

Up close you can hitconfim, yes, but not with teleport. You'll have to make a guess unless the opponent for whatever reason exposes itself with a long-ass move perfectly timed for you to react. And if you're guessing you might as well do the teleport raw.