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Discussion MKXL Character Learning Curve Rating System

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
No need. Those are just things I've heard. I only know of ninjitsu from my own experience. It's the only scorpion I play. Because I had to invest so little into execution. He's fun though because that allows you to focus more on spacing and footsies.
Yea honestly if those characters had hard combos AND difficult spacing/footsies, they'd be some of the hardest characters in the whole damn game.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Wait who did I name drop? Cossner? If you're referring to him....The difference is I've disagreed with him on several occassions but I do agree with him that Sektor is NOT a top guy just because Sonic says so, you do realize even tourney guys disagree with each other often right? But at least I'll say this much, at least with Cossner it's his main guy currently, he's used him in tourneys. I haven't seen sonic use Sektor that much, in fact last few tourneys he used Alien, he's used Black, Kitana etc so....yeah.
So on the status that you are referencing him agreeing with you (where he said Sektor is top 10 not top 5, something nobody has really contested) he followed up with this about how hard to play Sektor is, and how strong he is in comparison to Cyrax



I take it you were gonna namedrop this part too right? now that he is disagreeing with what you are unmistakably saying in here?
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I want to believe you are trolling, but in reality, I just think your mentally handicapped. Try reading what EVERYONE ELSE IS TELLING YOU, you great yokeling idgit, before insulting anyone elses reading comprehension. It's super hard. I am aware, but please, for all of us, give it a go.

Others are being nice, but screw that. You are literally staring well written and explained opinions in the face that are backed up by reasonable facts and information and you're just completely ignoring everything that's being said so you can keep arguing this moronic point you have decided to stand behind.

You are the gift that keeps on giving though, I'll give you that much.

I super like how you said I must not know who you are.. welp, you are super super correct, I have NO IDEA who you are, and unless i miss my guess, no one else does either. But I bet.. i just BET that wheb you typed that line and hit the period you pulled back from your desk and made some thuggery hand motion and internally congratulated yourself on how forum-thug and impressively dominant you just were..l like I said. You are a gift that keeps giving. Like an onion, eaxh acrid, year inducing layer after another filled with more absurdity than the last. at some point I think you even called me 'kid'. Itsba testament to how much you've said I find beautifully ridiculous that I can't even remember if you personally insulted me or not.

I'll tell you what though, in have to go to Walmart here in a few to get some cardio and shit, while I'm there I'll pick up a day planner and a pencil just so I can schedule a little to give one fifth of a shit about you or your online abilities and how that is somehow relevant to this argument. I'm thinking.. Dec 11th or 12th, from, say, 10:00am to 10:02am of the same day.

But no, please keep going. And also please tell us how your opinions are correct because of your skill and experience, but the opinions of others like SonicFox and Cossner and such, who are more skillfull and more experienced, somehow arent?

God you're like a walking forum meme, right down to your by the book come-back posts. It's nice that you've played since day 1, so have I. And I'll just wedge this in here real quick then go eat dinner with my GF before I head to walmart for that day planner - you yourself said zoning was weak because anyone in the game can get right next to you... When a) zoning isn't weak AT ALL and b) OF COURSE THEY CAN (even though a ton of characters really can't) that's why most good zoners that I'm aware of have options to deal.

I bet you play SFV and ask for Chun Li buffs don't you?
You sound like such a tool riding the "hey let's hate on this MKF guy" bandwagon yet knowing nothing of the situation nor respecting another person's opinion different than your own.

Ok, lol this is too good now, please quote me when I said Sonic and Cossner's opinions are as you say "meanlingless and lesser than mine or anyone elses or that I'm or anyone else are more skillful"? I never said this, Wow, delusional much? I said I don't form my opinions based off what pro players think or believe because pro player insert here says that it's automatically a fact, I can think for myself thanks. But hey if it's easier for you to be a tool, by all means. You're probably one of those people who believes shit regarding politics from the mainstream media, so easily influenced.

Hey some of us prefer to think for ourselves though, thanks. The fact that you even bring up the term "meme" proves how much of a puppet you are to the internet trend. Actually, yes in MKX zoning overall is weak compared to other fighters and previous MK's this is a fact. If you actually think zoning is as viable as rushdown, 50/50 game you sir are blind. Did I say zoning was totally gone and complete shit? No, but it leaves more to be desired and I'm quite certain majority of other zoning players such as myself would agree.

Well if that's some kind of potshot, get on xbox sometime and I'll show you just how much of a good/bad zoner I am ;) when you're not doing "cardio with your GF" that is.


You sound like you're the expert on being "mentally handicapped" or "trolling". Oh please, you're already boring me with this "intellectual tough guy" rhetoric. I DID read how about you read what i'm saying Mr. Arrogant. For one, no so you're wrong right off the bat as I don't even play SF anymore. I got turned off once Capcom screwed over their fanbase putting out an incomplete game, and was already annoyed from previous shit they've done. Haven't played the game since launch, so no not only do I not ask for anything I don't care all together. I care about MK X's life and I care about Injustice 2. Good job on making more false assumptions about me though, it's cute.

I don't know what you're ranting about with this "internet thug" nonsense but I don't care lol No, I don't think myself anything other than just another user expressing just my own opinion much as you or anyone else to post based off my experience, if you don't like it well too bad. lol See, I'll tell you something right now about me. I'll always offer to respectfully disagree unless someone is a flat out asshat and lowballing me then the gloves come off and quite frankly I don't really care if someone thinks "oh I'm crazy, nuts stupid blah, blah" for having a difference in opinion, that's the problem with this country now days and personally it's irritating. I have no problem putting someone in their place if they ask for it, however on the other hand you could learn from Crazy and I, learn to be respectful? I was rude to you because you were extremely RUDE to me with your prior post and then some. Maybe you're used to manhandling, lowballing other people daily without resistance but unfortunately for you, you know nothing about me.

You can dish it out but can't take a lick that's your problem, otherwise please ignore me. What I meant by that statement btw is A. I've been apart of the general MKC for YEARS B. been playing MK as long as the first game including the shittier eras of MK, not just MK X C. While I'm not a tourney player, I have played in a few over the years here, there nothing crazy and loads and hours of experience online as in leaderboard worthy at least. I did win one MK 9 mid tier tourney on here hosted by zigzag few years back, which was fun but point is I'm an experienced player, a contributer when I can and older original TYM member when it first started. Now I'm sure you think I'm just another noob who loves Sektor so much because of my avatar, and oh some disagree with me so I'm automatically wrong but fact of the matter is my opinion is as important, relevant as anyone else here. I don't care if you agree/disagree, but as long as you respect it and others different from you own then we're fine. But if you come at me at me with this thug like mentality or cocky Tom Felton/Julian (Flash) bs, I have no hesitations putting that person in their place. If I find it's a problem, simple I block you/ignore. Your choice really.

I assure you nothing is wrong with my reading comprehension. I recall English was one of my top subjects and let's put it this way I read what's worth reading. Think about that. You insult me, mock mine or anyone else's opinion consider the same respect in return. Have fun with your work out, maybe you'll feel more relieved once you work out all of your tension. ;)
 
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SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
Smoke is a gimmicky character, he's not the easiest but not the hardest either. C Sub is harder to use than Smoke is. Sektor's teleport is not a free hit move on par with getting frozen, speared or netted though...and unlike those moves which will most likely be done from a far, if blocked there's no penalty....unlike a blocked Sektor teleport where he gets punished. That's the difference, so I'd have to disagree on that. That is not really a free hit move, but a move that he can follow up combo damage on if connected/not blocked. The only thing that makes Cyrax's bombs more tricky is the pro aggressive/rush down element MK X has with run. But the same can be said about Sektor, zoning in this came is near to non existent compared previous MK games namely MK 9...

Sektor's free hit move was patched(his free hit stun on rising missiles) that was a free hit....Cyrax's damage is easier and higher than most Sektor combos though, every character requires execution and such though to a degree....

With Triborg as far as I'm concerned Hardest to easiest: Cyber Sub>>>Sektor>>Smoke>>>>>>Cyrax. I may agree that Sektor and Smoke are comparable in some ways as far as combos, since I've noticed Smoke's combos are weird and harder to connect compared to his past iterations, I used to use him but dropped him. Cyrax is not THAT difficult to use, if you can set up well he's not that hard. He also has loads of tools fast teleport, unblockable set ups, bombs, nets for free hits etc Sektor is harder to use than Cyrax at the end of the day. Sektor is not easy to use lol. He may have less to worry about in terms of his move set but that doesn't mean he's easy to win with by any means. His rising missiles in MK 9 were AA and Anti teleports from above, this game not the case they go right through....
I disagree so much with this post that quite frankly I don't want to write it all down.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I disagree so much with this post that quite frankly I don't want to write it all down.
That's fine dude, I have no issue agreeing to disagree bro. To be honest, I'm tired of this thread with trolls giving me a hard time over a difference in opinion. It's why I rarely post. But I have no issue with you.
 

SaSSolino

Soul Stealing Loyalist
don't worry. Everyone disagrees with it. And MKF30 got declared D.O.A. when the paramedics made it to this thread cause he was fuckin bodied in here
That's fine dude, I have no issue agreeing to disagree bro. To be honest, I'm tired of this thread with trolls giving me a hard time over a difference in opinion. It's why I rarely post. But I have no issue with you.
My neutrality sickens me.
 

D7X

EMPEROR | D7X
On this post i will explain why some of the variations i mentioned are easy, normal, hard or very hard.

I will start with Ninjutsu Scorpion
Having easy combos, easy damage, and restand to prevent wakeups, makes Ninjutsu very easy to begin with, specially when the character has priority normals preventing trades and covering lots of space.

However at the highest level when you face people that have a good defense, is where Ninjutsu needs to excel and poke people out, walk in and out and react to recovery frames as fast as he can to punish those little openings, the characters balances his ranges and priority normals from being punishable at them on block.
Ninjutsu falls on the principle that when one players has no openings due constant defense, the only time you will breach that guard is when they let their own guard down in order to attack, that's your window, in order to do that, imaculated spacing and precise reads are required.

Hat Trick Kung Lao
Having slow walkspeeds, negative pokes and strings, lots of highs, makes really dificult to play footsies, so he has to take lots of risks like being at minus most of the time if that is your style of play with hat traps pressure or dive kicks, not an easy character to pick from the get go, requires very good reactions, very good reads, and very good anticipations mostly.

His execution isn't cheap either, specially now, that in order to play at the highest level and eradicate the meter dependence to do serious damage, avoid breaks, and get more loopable pressure and setups, you need to learn his high execution level meterless combos that goes from 30 to 32 out of a 8f punishment and 35% to 40% meterless in the corner with the right punishes

Hat Trick falls on the category that in order to excel at anything else with the character, you need to learn fundamentals, piece of advice before choosing the variation? Pick Scorpion. :)

Drunken Master Bo' Rai Cho
This character is far more complicated than hat trick, while there isn't much to worry about his stamina, he has to manage not only his meter, but he needs to manage the drunk timing, having only two options of keeping the drunkeness going forces the character to either drop damage to drink or jump to escape the time out. This is primary over everything else, including execution which isn't that hard at all, but isn't that easy either moderate would be the right term here

He gets stronger as he drinks since he gets more tools to use such has the torpedo and the meditate which are very powerfull on the right hands, the biggest problem is how to maintain the drunk state.
Since Bo' is a very complex character, is advisable to learn how to play without being drunk first, then once you get REALLY familiar with his tools, its time to start drinking, however there is a new challenge, you need to learn how to count to 10 with each drink taking your focus off the matches sometimes.

Dragon Naginata Tanya

While the character doesn't have anything too revealing and such, it has a very simple concept of play, you dictate the match with your ranges, walkspeed and good strings, great footsie tools, good anti-airs, being mobility the strongest point of the variation, everytime an window oportunity appears DN Tanya needs to make it count.
With that in mind, bear that in order to land her best combos, her execution out of pogo hits are extremely thigh, but are a necessary evil since it allows her to reach full potential off her best damage.

Tanya also in this variation can soft the recovery frames of teleport by landing into the pogo stance, which opens opportunities for a new world in the air to explore as long as the pogo player knows what he is doing without opening itself too much.


wanna do dualist but he is just too hard, don't even know where to start, he is probably the hardest variation to use in full during a match right now, along with high tech jacqui.
I completely agree on your Ninjutsu part. To start out with he is very easy. Easy combos, teaches you spacing, and fundamentals. Playing him against high level opponents however is dofferent. He is pretty unsafe, and risky if the opponent knows what he's doing. B2 is unsafe, your main spacing tool/whiff punisher, F2 is unsafe, f2~Takedown is unsafe, etc.
 
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Smoke is a gimmicky character, he's not the easiest but not the hardest either. C Sub is harder to use than Smoke is. Sektor's teleport is not a free hit move on par with getting frozen, speared or netted though...and unlike those moves which will most likely be done from a far, if blocked there's no penalty....unlike a blocked Sektor teleport where he gets punished. That's the difference, so I'd have to disagree on that. That is not really a free hit move, but a move that he can follow up combo damage on if connected/not blocked. The only thing that makes Cyrax's bombs more tricky is the pro aggressive/rush down element MK X has with run. But the same can be said about Sektor, zoning in this came is near to non existent compared previous MK games namely MK 9...

Sektor's free hit move was patched(his free hit stun on rising missiles) that was a free hit....Cyrax's damage is easier and higher than most Sektor combos though, every character requires execution and such though to a degree....

With Triborg as far as I'm concerned Hardest to easiest: Cyber Sub>>>Sektor>>Smoke>>>>>>Cyrax. I may agree that Sektor and Smoke are comparable in some ways as far as combos, since I've noticed Smoke's combos are weird and harder to connect compared to his past iterations, I used to use him but dropped him. Cyrax is not THAT difficult to use, if you can set up well he's not that hard. He also has loads of tools fast teleport, unblockable set ups, bombs, nets for free hits etc Sektor is harder to use than Cyrax at the end of the day. Sektor is not easy to use lol. He may have less to worry about in terms of his move set but that doesn't mean he's easy to win with by any means. His rising missiles in MK 9 were AA and Anti teleports from above, this game not the case they go right through....
Smoke is gimmicky? Sektor is harder to use than Cyrax? WTH.
 

Cashual

PSN: Cansuela
@MKF30

I created an account on tym last year, this isn't a hidey, I've never heard of you, nor have I ever commented towards you. I have the same username on twitch (almost), and use some variation of casual on all forums as it's a childhood nickname based on my last name.

So in short....no.

However, it's good to know that in addition to lacking any sort of ability to reason and see other's viewpoints as something other than an attack, you also have a persecution complex and are convinced that people "stalk" you and are out to get you. I've never heard of you, but you think you're so efamous that I created an account to rile you up. dude. therapy.

Won't reply to you again that's for sure
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
It's the spacing. At a high level your defense/neutral game needs to be on point.
Defense I can agree with. Spacing I don't. F2: More than quarter screen, no hurtbox having, anti airing, breaking some armor, launching for a full 30+ combo into a vortex, with a mixup in it and nearly unpinishable. That's pretty braindead to me lol

Edit: Before people get triggered, a fuzzyable mixup. Also I forgot to me mention his D4 and dumb J3
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
Also just realized you said neutral too lol. Same points though. Plus tele reaction against projectiles and still has Ex spear which is safe
 

CrazyFingers

The Power of Lame Compels You
Also just realized you said neutral too lol. Same points though. Plus tele reaction against projectiles and still has Ex spear which is safe
If mean if you space it incorrectly and whiff it you can be punished easy by a lot of the cast. Same with B2.
 
Spacing F2... Come on, its a fucking "half screen" move. Not saying that playing this character doesn't require any skills but this is just pushing it.
What????? Playing this character doesn't require skill?? F2 is unsafe if badly spaced. Not to mention, spacing is the key to punish whiffing normals and getting opponents to press buttons. Have u seen @YOMI RM JagoBlake play? If u haven't I suggest u do before talking about skill.
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
If mean if you space it incorrectly and whiff it you can be punished easy by a lot of the cast. Same with B2.
Bruh to whiff F2 you gotta be like half screen and it already has pretty good recovery especially for all that move does. I don't see anyone whiff punishing F2 unless they manage to jump over it. I think you have to be ready for it to punish it. Like if someone just F2 spams but a good Scorpion you never know when they'll throw it out or jump or empty tele or D4. B2 might be a different story but hell I even saw Red Raptor try to whiff punish that with Takedas F1 and he still failed. But B2 doesn't really get thrown out anyways. Those are carefully chosen
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
What????? Playing this character doesn't require skill?? F2 is unsafe if badly spaced. Not to mention, spacing is the key to punish whiffing normals and getting opponents to press buttons. Have u seen @YOMI RM JagoBlake play? If u haven't I suggest u do before talking about skill.
You misread his statement fam. He said "NOT saying this character DOESNT require skill" lol
 

UGL Preon

The Casual God
Sektor: You can get a solid idea of what hes supposed to do, what his gameplay is, the fact he has extended normals is a plus. Good keep away, no HIGH EXECUTION needed set ups. He's relativelt what you see is what you get. Just cant go brain dead with missiles. Being able to make people respect your teleport on block is a huge plus with the option to MB charge.

Cyrax: Very aet up heavy. His BNBs require more brain activities than Sektor's "More advanced and swaggy combos". His gameplan is not straightforward and does the most inputs percentile damage in the game?

Example: (Starter) ~EXdb1, ff, 4~bf1, dd2, f, 4~db2, bb, 4~dd2, jb3, b2, 4~db4 - 34-35%

Damage is there but you must WORK for it. The setups while being nice when they hit are more complex and dynamic than any other setup character in the game. There are a lot more variability as well. Some of the higher damage combos require a far airbomb to be out preemptively and then get the first hit of your combo while its out to knock them into it.

So between the two in terms of "Easier to learn, play" difficulty curve. Its night in day Sektor easier to play.

Sektor: Medium/Easy
Cyrax: Hard/V.Hard

Others
Smoke: Medium
CSZ: Medium/LowerHard
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
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Smoke is gimmicky? Sektor is harder to use than Cyrax? WTH.
It's not like half of Smoke's attacks, tactics revolve around smoke cloud 50/50s....dude even NRS testers said when Triborg first came out he's about deception with his smoke attack chains lol if players utilize this well it's hard to see what's coming because his smoke attacks acts like a smoke screen(pun intended) lol and it's hard to see if he's hitting you high or low depending on the chain and yes imo. So?
 
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MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
I just realized something in common a few people here share, can't say I'm surprised lol.

I hope for MK 11 They just give Scorp his hellfire and swords back. His styles are fun, but I kind of hate having to break down each one. I'm sure they'll do something different in MK 11, they always change it up.
 
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