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Match-Up Discussion - Mileena MKX Mileena MU Chart v2

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
So, your issue is that you want to be able to do B12 on block, walk back, and punish a every cast members D4 on wiff with B12 again?

If that is the case people are making, let it be known that that isn't the case I am making for why it is to be respected.
No, but you and your team have been hyping up her "B12 pressure" which is not THAT good. I am completely fine with her in general, but people seem to think that B12 is some sort of godlike string.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
There are a couple of factors involved to make the F3 stand a chance of landing in a real match, apart from a well timed knockdown.

People don't seem to understand that landing a B12 on hit in the neutral is a good thing, as you are guaranteed another B12 and even better, a B21, which is Mid then low, that can't be avoided. So the correct block is always low after B12, so that scenario gives a F3 a better chance of landing, and in theory, a better chance than F4 will ever have of landing as opponents should actually never be stand blocking on first call after anything Mileena hits you with.

Because Mileena's 21 and B21, the opponent spends more time first reacting with a low block instead of standing block, because standing will open you up.

When you re-stand the opponent in the corner with B121+3 DD2, the same scenario is presented, and remember that you are playing against a human, not a machine.

Their timing can be messed with, and they can be conditioned.
Not to take away from the point, but this reminds me of something I said when talking about Bane in that Bane had some 33/33/33 set-ups, and some people said to MB b.3 as an option.
When you are presented with a decision in which at least half of the time you will be wrong, then you cannot assume you'll choose the right answer. To this I agree.

When I placed the scenario, I explained that to assume MB b.3 is a means to defeat Bane is folly because the Bane player can adapt to this. The issue isn't solely one player's task to learn, its the other's to adapt as well.
In Mileena's case, the opponent is placed with a 33/33/33 in the grand scheme. 33% of the time, they guess right. 33% of the time they guess wrong, and 33% of the time you, as the Mileena, guess right by merit of adapting your gameplan.
This is how I see it at least, as someone who has admittedly gotten hit with f.3 more times than I feel comfortable admitting to.

To anyone who ever says that hitting f.3 is improbable because of its low speed, keep in mind Bane's charge was 32 frames and blew the shit out of everyone constantly.
Armor beside the point, it stands than when YOU are making a guess, you'll always be at a disadvantage because you are relying not only on the opponent being wrong, but not changing to fit your answer.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
No, but you and your team have been hyping up her "B12 pressure" which is not THAT good. I am completely fine with her in general, but people seem to think that B12 is some sort of godlike string.
So what would make it "God like"?

Do you want to constantly throw 9 frames of pure mid down someones throat over and over?

Because if the opponent had no viable options to escape, then you couldn't open them up for doing so.
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
So what would make it "God like"?

Do you want to constantly throw 9 frames of pure mid down someones throat over and over?
No! I never said I wanted it changed (obviously I would like it to be a true mid becaue well, it's supposed to be one)
I am 100% fine with the string, also I am aware that it's not as great as some people make it up to be! I'm comentating on this because some misinformation has been spread about it lately.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
No! I never said I wanted it changed (obviously I would like it to be a true mid becaue well, it's supposed to be one)
I am 100% fine with the string, also I am aware that it's not as great as some people make it up to be! I'm comentating on this because some misinformation has been spread about it lately.
In fairness, there is no denying it has some utility in MUs because some characters don't have reliable answers for it. It might not be universally good, but even you can admit its pretty damn good when the shoe fits.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Not to take away from the point, but this reminds me of something I said when talking about Bane in that Bane had some 33/33/33 set-ups, and some people said to MB b.3 as an option.
When you are presented with a decision in which at least half of the time you will be wrong, then you cannot assume you'll choose the right answer. To this I agree.

When I placed the scenario, I explained that to assume MB b.3 is a means to defeat Bane is folly because the Bane player can adapt to this. The issue isn't solely one player's task to learn, its the other's to adapt as well.
In Mileena's case, the opponent is placed with a 33/33/33 in the grand scheme. 33% of the time, they guess right. 33% of the time they guess wrong, and 33% of the time you, as the Mileena, guess right by merit of adapting your gameplan.
This is how I see it at least, as someone who has admittedly gotten hit with f.3 more times than I feel comfortable admitting to.

To anyone who ever says that hitting f.3 is improbable because of its low speed, keep in mind Bane's charge was 32 frames and blew the shit out of everyone constantly.
Armor beside the point, it stands than when YOU are making a guess, you'll always be at a disadvantage because you are relying not only on the opponent being wrong, but not changing to fit your answer.
I agree with a lot of this.

From what I understand of fighting games and playing vs good opponents, players will predetermine a block more often than not.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
No! I never said I wanted it changed (obviously I would like it to be a true mid becaue well, it's supposed to be one)
I am 100% fine with the string, also I am aware that it's not as great as some people make it up to be! I'm comentating on this because some misinformation has been spread about it lately.
Who exactly is spreading the misinformation? Me?
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Not to take away from the point, but this reminds me of something I said when talking about Bane in that Bane had some 33/33/33 set-ups, and some people said to MB b.3 as an option.
When you are presented with a decision in which at least half of the time you will be wrong, then you cannot assume you'll choose the right answer. To this I agree.

When I placed the scenario, I explained that to assume MB b.3 is a means to defeat Bane is folly because the Bane player can adapt to this. The issue isn't solely one player's task to learn, its the other's to adapt as well.
In Mileena's case, the opponent is placed with a 33/33/33 in the grand scheme. 33% of the time, they guess right. 33% of the time they guess wrong, and 33% of the time you, as the Mileena, guess right by merit of adapting your gameplan.
This is how I see it at least, as someone who has admittedly gotten hit with f.3 more times than I feel comfortable admitting to.

To anyone who ever says that hitting f.3 is improbable because of its low speed, keep in mind Bane's charge was 32 frames and blew the shit out of everyone constantly.
Armor beside the point, it stands than when YOU are making a guess, you'll always be at a disadvantage because you are relying not only on the opponent being wrong, but not changing to fit your answer.
I'm sorry, but nobody ever should get hit by a 33F move, unless it low crushed someone.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Yeah, you said some characters couldn't handle her B12 bullying. And some other people...
Yea, I think you and a lot of others don't seem to understand what bullying actually is.

BULLYING:
"Use strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something".

Im sorry that the opponent has a choice after the string, I can't take that way for you or others.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I'm sorry, but nobody ever should get hit by a 33F move, unless it low crushed someone.
You;d think so, but 33 frames are mere moments of a second. If every frame were even a tenth of a second long, I might agree, however when you are put into the heat of a match 33 frames is an instant, a flash in the pan.
At the end of the day, its the option that you still get hit with because despite its slow speed, its not something your mind is prepared to contend with.
At the end of the day, you jumped expecting Bane's command grab and ate that 32 frame charge on the chin. At the end of the day, you took that big hit because you were looking for the small one.
If we assumed a perfect world, no one would lose because no one would move from the start. However, humans are far from perfect. If given even a full second they still wouldn't find themselves capable of reacting.
There is no reason to get hit by any move above 16 frames, or so I heard in injustice. Yet every day we see people getting hit by 20 frame moves, by 24 frame mix-ups. Thats because people don't look for the wind-up, they guard expecting a hit.

I.E. they shoot where they believe the target will be, not where it is and not necessarily WHERE it will be. To place it into comparison, if Mileena's low was say... 16 frames, then the opponent would block low and their mind would have 17 more frames to both realize they shouldn't block low, sort through every other possible option, determine blocking high is correct, and then command the hands to do so. Fuzzy guarding is one thing, but then the mind considers another low is possible, a grab is possible, and so on. We cannot boil the human psyche down to the idea that they should not react to something because the mind does not come prepared with such things. Gamers rely on nothing short of conditioned responses and instinct, and anything that deviates from those responses (such as an overhead that is rarely used, or a less-than-optimal risk being taken) can't really be considered reactable.

The game runs at 60 fps. 33 frames is 0.51 seconds. The average human reaction time is 0.25, so just over double the average reaction and thats assume they know what they are seeing (which can take as much as another 0.1-0.2 seconds to register as a thought) and know how to react. The reason practice is so important is because it catalyses these efforts, making them streamlined and effective. You aren't going to be trained to deal with a 33f overhead any more than you would be to react to a 32 frame charge, and that charge was on a 30fps game.

You essentially had double the time and a much more obvious set of cues to react to (A sound plays, Bane makes big dramatic movements which draw attention to him) and STILL you'll see people eat that charge like a continental breakfast. Thats because humans aren't made to react on the spot. We're made to learn and adapt, so if theres something we haven't learned or adapted to then we aren't going to react as fast as you'd think.

I'd say for a completely original ideal to be reacted to on the spot and when other things are to be considered, your reaction drops somewhere in the neighborhood of an additional half second. And thats not including the natural inclination to react slower to attractive images and so on, thats just objectively speaking.

Unless you are specifically looking for the 33f overhead, you're trying to react to a 0.51 second move with about a 0.7 second reaction timer. Its not going to happen without you guessing beforehand and premeditating the block.

Lots of brain science. tl;dr, I'm basically saying its really not as outlandish as you think to get hit by a 33f move when you consider you're also looking for literally every other option first in your field of priority and are probably unaccustomed to considering it as an option.
 
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EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Yea, I think you a lot of others don't seem to understand what bullying actually is.

BULLYING:
"Use strength or influence to intimidate (someone), typically to force them to do something".

Im sorry that the opponent has a choice after the string, I can't take that way for you or others.
Lol c'mon that's just a joke... But well, actually you don't force them to do shit, and if by force them you mean make them press a buttom so you can armor trough it then she can bully everyone with all her plus or safe strings...
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
so i was doing predator combos today and i tried one on mileena and my mid whiffs on hit - standing, not even in a juggle so

what's up with that, milenna players
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
so i was doing predator combos today and i tried one on mileena and my mid whiffs on hit - standing, not even in a juggle so

what's up with that, milenna players
Mileena has the amazing combination of both a woman hitbox and a large recoil. Its the same reason Mb Superman Punch didn't work on Bane back in the day, he simply stumbled too far back.
Or thats what it sounds like, I wouldn't know for sure without video, but I know Torr has specific combos for Mileena because she for some reason bobs back too far for us to land a peak 11 on her.

That being said though, this stagger issue actually works in our favor in other cases, and she is unfortunate enough to have a female hitbox meaning she can eat like 5 or 6% more from our BnBs
 
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xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Most of the numbers are placeholders I think.
Most of the numbers are placeholders I think.
So why make a chart when you don't even know the number? This is a forum full of people that play the characters. Message some of the known character specialists and grind it out. Don't just make a number up.


Not YOU btw, but I'm sure you got it lol
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
So why make a chart when you don't even know the number? This is a forum full of people that play the characters. Message some of the known character specialists and grind it out. Don't just make a number up.


Not YOU btw, but I'm sure you got it lol
I know not me, but I'm not defending the user so much as the idea. Living MU charts exist, and I'd say its fair to be assumed that everything is 5-5 until otherwise proven.
Thus, the discussion is made when users attempt to prove otherwise the ideals posted. For example, instead of asking why its listed as a 5-5, the intention could be to instead provoke the discussion of "this is why it is ____"
I'm an optimist, but I do like discussion on match-ups so I'm not one to disregard this list before it even has a chance to begin.

I'm sure you understand my stance.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
I know not me, but I'm not defending the user so much as the idea. Living MU charts exist, and I'd say its fair to be assumed that everything is 5-5 until otherwise proven.
Thus, the discussion is made when users attempt to prove otherwise the ideals posted. For example, instead of asking why its listed as a 5-5, the intention could be to instead provoke the discussion of "this is why it is ____"
I'm an optimist, but I do like discussion on match-ups so I'm not one to disregard this list before it even has a chance to begin.

I'm sure you understand my stance.
Yes I get it when you put it like that.

But others won't think of it like that. I came in here and looked at the numbers and the only thing that went thru my mind was "wtf?! This bitch isn't that good". Leaving the numbers like that would allow some to believe that those are the actual numbers, and in this chart, it's leading people to think she's top 2, and EVERYONE knows that's not true.

Couldn't he had put N/A or something?
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yes I get it when you put it like that.

But others won't think of it like that. I came in here and looked at the numbers and the only thing that went thru my mind was "wtf?! This bitch isn't that good". Leaving the numbers like that would allow some to believe that those are the actual numbers, and in this chart, it's leading people to think she's top 2, and EVERYONE knows that's not true.

Couldn't he had put N/A or something?
I believe he did for the Ferra/Torr, but I also assume that editing those numbers may be quite difficult as it is a massed image.

Maybe he is counting on that reaction to bring people to talk about why he is wrong. People are just more content to simply point out he is wrong instead.