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Match-Up Discussion - Mileena MKX Mileena MU Chart v2

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
This is my take on her MU's as on now. My main variation is Piercing, hence the main focus on those numbers. For Ethereal, I gave it more of the benefit of the doubt since tool wise, it doesn't seem to "lose" to anyone other than herself in Piercing, nor does it dominate anyone.

No genuine experience on Ferra/Torr and some 5-5s such as with Liu Kang, I can "see" how it can be viewed as a losing MU or like a 4.5-5.5, but with tools both characters have along with MU experience, it just feels like a hard 5-5; dead even but heavily reliant on reactionary play and momentum based.

*The best way to view it, would be to right-click the image, and select view in another tab, or something along those lines so you don't get a drastic zoom in.

*Side note: This layout more or less DOES allow me to also do the same thing for every other character since all I would need to do would be to edit the variation titles at the top, so if ANY other mains are interested in this layout as well, PM me

 
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Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
CASSIE CAGE
Ethereal Vs. Brawler : 6-4
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Spec Ops : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Hollywood : 5-5
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Brawler : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Spec Ops : 4-6

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Hollywood : 4-6
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Brawler : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Spec Ops : 4-6

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Hollywood : 4-6

NOTES

D'VORAH
Ethereal Vs. Brood Mother : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Venomous : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Swarm Queen : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Brood Mother : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Venomous : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Swarm Queen : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Brood Mother : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Venomous : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Swarm Queen : N/A-N/A
NOTES

ERMAC
Ethereal Vs. Spectral : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Mystic : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Master of Souls : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Spectral : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Mystic : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Master of Souls : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Spectral : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Mystic : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Master of Souls : N/A-N/A

NOTES

ERRON BLACK
Ethereal Vs. Gunslinger : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Outlaw : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Marksman : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Gunslinger : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Outlaw : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Marksman : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Gunslinger : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Outlaw : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Marksman : N/A-N/A

NOTES

FERRA/TORR
Ethereal Vs. Lackey : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Ruthless : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Vicious : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Lackey : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Ruthless : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Vicious : N/A-N/A
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Lackey : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Ruthless : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Vicious : N/A-N/A

NOTES

GORO
Ethereal Vs. Dragon Fangs : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Tigrar Fury : 6-4
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Kuatan Warrior : 5-5
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Dragon Fangs : 4-6
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Tigrar Fury : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Kuatan Warrior : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Dragon Fangs : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Tigrar Fury : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Kuatan Warrior : 5-5

NOTES

JACQUI
Ethereal Vs. Full Auto : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Shotgun : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. High Tech : 6-4
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Full Auto : 6-4
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Shotgun : 4-6

NOTES

Piercing Vs. High Tech : 6-4
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Full Auto : 4-6
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Shotgun : 4-6

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. High Tech : 6-4

NOTES

JASON
Ethereal Vs. Relentless : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Slasher : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Unstoppable : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Relentless : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Slasher : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Unstoppable : N/A-N/A
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Relentless : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Slasher : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Unstoppable : N/A-N/A

NOTES

JAX
Ethereal Vs. Pumped Up : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Wrestler : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Heavy Weapons : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Pumped Up : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Wrestler : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Heavy Weapons : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Pumped Up : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Wrestler : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Heavy Weapons : N/A-N/A

NOTES

JOHNNY CAGE
Ethereal Vs. A-List : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Fistcuffs : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Stunt Double : 4-6
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. A-List : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Fistcuffs : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Stunt Double : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. A-List : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Fistcuffs : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Stunt Double : 5-5

NOTES

KANO
Ethereal Vs. Cutthroat : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Commando : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Cybernetic : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Cutthroat : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Commando : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Cybernetic : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Cutthroat : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Commando : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Cybernetic : 5-5

NOTES

KENSHI
Ethereal Vs. Balanced : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Kenjutsu : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Possessed : 4-6
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Balanced : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Kenjutsu : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Possessed : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Balanced : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Kenjutsu : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Possessed : 5-5

NOTES

KITANA
Ethereal Vs. Assassin : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Mournful : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Royal Storm : 4-6
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Assassin : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Mournful : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Royal Storm : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Assassin : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Mournful : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Royal Storm : 5-5

NOTES

KOTAL KAHN
Ethereal Vs. Sun God : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Blood God : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. War God : 4-6
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Sun God : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Blood God : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. War God : 5-5
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Sun God : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Blood God : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. War God : 5-5

NOTES

KUNG JIN
Ethereal Vs. Bojutsu : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Ancestral : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Shaolin : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Bojutsu : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Ancestral : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Shaolin : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Bojutsu : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Ancestral : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Shaolin : 5-5

NOTES
 
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1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
I'll update this later. I can't copy it and all that through my phone :/
edited out the other posts from the merge.
i still think its kinda redundant having a second mu thread, your graphics easily could of been edited in to op of original thread.
its un-needed clutter imo. especially when her mu chart is no where near complete.
ill leave this thread separate to make it easier for you for to edit in info from main discussion thread into your graphics but the original one will stay the main one.
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
KUNG LAO
Ethereal Vs. Buzz Saw : 6-4
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Tempest : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Hat Trick : 5-5
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Buzz Saw : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Tempest : 4-6

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Hat Trick : 4-6
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Buzz Saw : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Tempest : 4-6

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Hat Trick : 4-6

NOTES

LIU KANG
Ethereal Vs. Flame Fist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Dualist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Dragon's Fire : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Flame Fist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Dualist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Dragon's Fire : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Flame Fist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Dualist : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Dragon's Fire : N/A-N/A
NOTES

MILEENA
Ethereal Vs. Ethereal : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Piercing : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Ravenous : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Ethereal : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Piercing : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Ravenous : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Ethereal : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Piercing : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Ravenous : N/A-N/A

NOTES

PREDATOR
Ethereal Vs. Hunter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Hish-Qu-Ten : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Warrior : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Hunter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Hish-Qu-Ten : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Warrior : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Hunter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Hish-Qu-Ten : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Warrior : N/A-N/A

NOTES

QUAN CHI
Ethereal Vs. Sorceror : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Summoner : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Warlock : N/A-N/A
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Sorceror : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Summoner : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Warlock : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Sorceror : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Summoner : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Warlock : N/A-N/A

NOTES

RAIDEN
Ethereal Vs. Thunder God : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Displacer : 6-4
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Master of Storms : 5-5
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Thunder God : 4-6
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Displacer : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Master of Storms : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Thunder God : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Displacer : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Master of Storms : 5-5

NOTES

REPTILE
Ethereal Vs. Nimble : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Deceptive : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Noxious : 6-4
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Nimble : 6-4
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Deceptive : 4-6

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Noxious : 6-4
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Nimble : 4-6
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Deceptive : 4-6

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Noxious : 6-4

NOTES

SCORPION
Ethereal Vs. Hellfire : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Ninjutsu : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Inferno : N/A-N/A
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Hellfire : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Ninjutsu : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Inferno : N/A-N/A
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Hellfire : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Ninjutsu : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Inferno : N/A-N/A

NOTES

SHINNOK
Ethereal Vs. Imposter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Necromancer : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Bone Shaper : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Piercing Vs. Imposter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Necromancer : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Bone Shaper : N/A-N/A
NOTES
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Ravenous Vs. Imposter : N/A-N/A
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Necromancer : N/A-N/A

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Bone Shaper : N/A-N/A

NOTES

SONYA BLADE
Ethereal Vs. Covert Ops : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Demolition : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Special Forces : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Covert Ops : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Demolition : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Special Forces : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Covert Ops : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Demolition : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Special Forces : 5-5

NOTES

SUB-ZERO
Ethereal Vs. Cryomancer : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Grandmaster : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Unbreakable : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Cryomancer : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Grandmaster : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Unbreakable : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Cryomancer : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Grandmaster : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Unbreakable : 5-5

NOTES

TAKEDA
Ethereal Vs. Lasher : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Shirai Ryu : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Ronin : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Lasher : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Shirai Ryu : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Ronin : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Lasher : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Shirai Ryu : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Ronin : 5-5

NOTES

TANYA
Ethereal Vs. Kobu Jutsu : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Pyromancer : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Dragon Naginata : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Kobu Jutsu : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Pyromancer : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Dragon Naginata : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Kobu Jutsu : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Pyromancer : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Dragon Naginata : 5-5

NOTES

TREMOR
Ethereal Vs. Metallic : 4-6
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Aftershock : 5-5
NOTES

Ethereal Vs. Crystalline : 4-6
NOTES
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Piercing Vs. Metallic : 5-5
NOTES

Piercing Vs. Aftershock : 5-5

NOTES

Piercing Vs. Crystalline : 5-5
NOTES
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ravenous Vs. Metallic : 5-5
NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Aftershock : 5-5

NOTES

Ravenous Vs. Crystalline : 5-5

NOTES
 
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Do we really even have matchup numbers yet? I know there's been talk about hard matchups, but not sure if we've discussed numbers.
All 3 variations of Cassie for example beat up Piercing and Ravenous worse than Ethereal based on EX Fade alone. Meanwhile Full Auto Jacqui beats Ravenous the worst and might lose to Piercing.
 

Jolt

Uprise
Do we really even have matchup numbers yet? I know there's been talk about hard matchups, but not sure if we've discussed numbers.
All 3 variations of Cassie for example beat up Piercing and Ravenous worse than Ethereal based on EX Fade alone. Meanwhile Full Auto Jacqui beats Ravenous the worst and might lose to Piercing.
I don't think we have any numbers aside from the most recent YOMI numbers, but that's when Saltface was still doing mostly Ravenous and before he (seriously) touched Ethereal. I'll try to speed up my own process of matchups by frame-data and hopefully get us a decent starting point.

But someone else should still try to beat me to it! I'm a definite theory fighter lol. Once we have a clear idea of our matchup numbers and bad matchups, I will work my damnedest to find strategies that improve them.

We may not have a large community, but I'd say we have a pretty dedicated one. Unless @YOMI RM SaltFace or someone else with actual IN GAME MU experience wants to spit some numbers out, we might be waiting a while lol
 

ExpiredCodes

The Yankees blew a 3-0 lead in the 2004 ALCS.
Wow, this looks really nice. It'll be great having something so organized like this once it's complete.
 

Jolt

Uprise
I suppose we could start discussing some beginning numbers, and unlike many charts we'll do it RIGHT by having variations vs variations. It'll take us longer, but will definitely pay off IMO.
 

Damaja325

Stylin' & Low Profilin'
yeah i like this alot. would be great to a have a specific Mileena match-up thread as I don't have much experience with most of the cast. i know it's a work in progress, but i believe there should be another set of boxes to the right of each character containing specific notes for each match-up, which would be provided by the community. would be a big help.
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
edited out the other posts from the merge.
i still think its kinda redundant having a second mu thread, your graphics easily could of been edited in to op of original thread.
its un-needed clutter imo. especially when her mu chart is no where near complete.
ill leave this thread separate to make it easier for you for to edit in info from main discussion thread into your graphics but the original one will stay the main one.
The main reason (along with the title I had..) is that it's a cleaned up version of the initial MU discussion. I know for myself and for others, it's a pain to go through +20 pages of posts when all that's really needed in the end is just a few with crucial info. I doubt everyone that has posted in that thread is willing to delete their posts to thin it out, so that's why I made this, and also so that other players who don't main Mileena can see the layout overall and opt whether they'd like the same for their characters or not.
 

Jolt

Uprise
One thing I like about these charts in specific is they should be VERY smartphone friendly. Just in case, if it wouldn't be too much work could you also make PORTRAIT (phone friendly/optimized) versions? @Akromaniac27

I've had this idea of basically keeping a MU quick reference type deal on my Android, that way I always have it with me and between games I might be able to take a quick glance and remind myself of something I may have missed. Double check the frame data on a common string and make a really quick adjustment. We're in the age of infinite resources! We gotta use 'em
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
One thing I like about these charts in specific is they should be VERY smartphone friendly. Just in case, if it wouldn't be too much work could you also make PORTRAIT (phone friendly/optimized) versions? @Akromaniac27

I've had this idea of basically keeping a MU quick reference type deal on my Android, that way I always have it with me and between games I might be able to take a quick glance and remind myself of something I may have missed. Double check the frame data on a common string and make a really quick adjustment. We're in the age of infinite resources! We gotta use 'em
Oh yeah of course. The size of this current image is only 5x25" (kinda large) but even only being 5 x 2.5 per box, you can see how much you can still zoom in and with clarity. In the end, I'll have a spoiler with the mobile friendly version in it, which should be in a day or two, at least just it all visually done.
 

Akromaniac27

Ready to lose your head?
yeah i like this alot. would be great to a have a specific Mileena match-up thread as I don't have much experience with most of the cast. i know it's a work in progress, but i believe there should be another set of boxes to the right of each character containing specific notes for each match-up, which would be provided by the community. would be a big help.
If anything, I can highlight the bad MU's and have community notes on the side, but I'm unsure on it only because in the end, it will be a little cramped up. I can reserve a post or two and just have it written out, but in a clean organized way if anything.
 
@Akromaniac27 well then I'll just throw some numbers out there from my own exp/theory

Cassie Cage
Ethereal
vs Brawler 6/4 - vs Hollywood 5/5 - vs Spec Ops 5/5
Piercing
vs Brawler 5/5 - vs Hollywood 4/6 - vs Spec Ops 4/6 (MAYBE 3/7)
Ravenous
vs Brawler 4/6 - vs Hollywood 4/6 - vs Spec Ops 4/6

Jacqui Briggs
Ethereal
vs High Tech 6/4 (MAYBE 7/3) - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 5/5
Piercing
vs High Tech 6/4 (MAYBE 7/3) - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 6/4
Ravenous
vs High Tech 6/4 - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 4/6

Sub Zero
Ethereal
vs Grandmaster 3/7 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5
Piercing
vs Grandmaster 5/5 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5
Ravenous
vs Grandmaster 4/6 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5

Kitana
Ethereal
vs Royal Storm 4/6 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5
Piercing
vs Royal Storm 5/5 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 4/6
Ravenous
vs Royal Storm 5/5 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5

Goro
Ethereal
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs N/A - vs Tigrar Fury 6/4
Piercing
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs 4/6 - vs Tigrar Fury 5/5
Ravenous
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs N/A - vs Tigrar Fury N/A
 
Last edited:

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
The main reason (along with the title I had..) is that it's a cleaned up version of the initial MU discussion. I know for myself and for others, it's a pain to go through +20 pages of posts when all that's really needed in the end is just a few with crucial info. I doubt everyone that has posted in that thread is willing to delete their posts to thin it out, so that's why I made this, and also so that other players who don't main Mileena can see the layout overall and opt whether they'd like the same for their characters or not.
i dont think you see my point & im not really bothered trying to explain so have at it :)
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
@Akromaniac27 well then I'll just throw some numbers out there from my own exp/theory

Cassie Cage
Ethereal
vs Brawler 6/4 - vs Hollywood 5/5 - vs Spec Ops 5/5
Piercing
vs Brawler 5/5 - vs Hollywood 4/6 - vs Spec Ops 4/6 (MAYBE 3/7)
Ravenous
vs Brawler 4/6 - vs Hollywood 4/6 - vs Spec Ops 4/6

Jacqui Briggs
Ethereal
vs High Tech 6/4 (MAYBE 7/3) - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 5/5
Piercing
vs High Tech 6/4 (MAYBE 7/3) - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 6/4
Ravenous
vs High Tech 6/4 - vs Shotgun 4/6 - vs Full Auto 4/6

Sub Zero
Ethereal
vs Grandmaster 3/7 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5
Piercing
vs Grandmaster 5/5 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5
Ravenous
vs Grandmaster 4/6 - vs Unbreakable N/A - vs Cryomancer 5/5

Kitana
Ethereal
vs Royal Storm 4/6 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5
Piercing
vs Royal Storm 5/5 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 4/6
Ravenous
vs Royal Storm 4/6 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5

Goro
Ethereal
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs N/A - vs Tigrar Fury 6/4
Piercing
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs 4/6 - vs Tigrar Fury 5/5
Ravenous
vs Kuatan Warrior 5/5 - vs Dragon Fangs N/A - vs Tigrar Fury N/A
why do you think vs jacqui is possible 7-3?
also personally i feel piercing does better vs kitana than ethereal does
 
why do you think vs jacqui is possible 7-3?
also personally i feel piercing does better vs kitana than ethereal does
I only consider 7/3 vs HIGH TECH variation. Unless I missed something about High Tech in the patch, she still gets zoned out badly and the only real thing she has is her pressure, which Ethereal should be able to take away with meter. Piercing has no guns to worry about so the zoning war is completely in her favor. Jacqui's footsies are not scary vs Mileena b12, F23 and d4. Just my thoughts.

As for Kitana, If you mean Royal storm I agree with you. But why against mournful? Glaive pressure should give Piercing a hard time.
 

Jolt

Uprise
@Akromaniac27 well then I'll just throw some numbers out there from my own exp/theory

Kitana
Ethereal
vs Royal Storm 4/6 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5
Piercing
vs Royal Storm 5/5 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 4/6
Ravenous
vs Royal Storm 4/6 - vs Assassin 5/5 - vs Mournful 5/5
This is the only area where I feel like it might be worth disputing. Ravenous, 4/6 vs Royal Storm I can accept. Ethereal though? I don't think so.

I'm thinking 5/5 at worst.

Neither character can throw projectiles against the other, but really Mileena can throw more than Kitana can (but admittedly gets less off of a success). Kitana has to worry about the teleport kick the whole time so she can't effectively air fan, she's taking a risk on those. We only need to worry about EX Lift if she has a bar.

Looking at frame data, her startups are actually just as bad as ours (which kinda surprised me), and in many ways our strings are better. I'd say up close, we win this MU just a little. Using ethereal allows us to punish the inevitable run in attempt while we wade through the sea of fans. Like Mileena, Kitana struggles to KEEP pressure, but Ethereal's +fades allow us to maintain pressure FAR better than Kitana could even hope to.

That said, I'm not confident in saying that we would have ADVANTAGE in the matchup so I'd settle for ethereal still being 5/5. Kitana wins in that Mileena is more likely to get impatient, but if both parties have equal patience and skill, I'd say it's a solid 5/5.

I know you were just throwing numbers out, but I'm curious to hear your rationale
 

1man3letters

Alpha Tarkatan - Moderator
Moderator
I only consider 7/3 vs HIGH TECH variation. Unless I missed something about High Tech in the patch, she still gets zoned out badly and the only real thing she has is her pressure, which Ethereal should be able to take away with meter. Piercing has no guns to worry about so the zoning war is completely in her favor. Jacqui's footsies are not scary vs Mileena b12, F23 and d4. Just my thoughts.

As for Kitana, If you mean Royal storm I agree with you. But why against mournful? Glaive pressure should give Piercing a hard time.
ah my bad i read that wrong i thought you had 7-3 full auto oops
too be honest i only have exp against assassin/royal storm so i should of mentioned i just meant them two, i though i did oops x 2
fucking hell i think i should just go to bed, cant read and cant type what im thinking correctly lol
 

Yoaks

A spaceman
Ravenous

6-4:
Balanced Kenshi
Relentless Jason

5-5:
Royal Storm Kitana
Stunt Double Johnny Cage
Thunder God Raiden

4-6:
War God Kotal Kahn
Ronin Takeda
Outlaw Erron Black
Ninjutsu Scorpion
Tigrar Fury Goro
Tempest Kung Lao
Cybernetic Kano

3-7:
Hollywood Cassie Cage
Wrestler Jax

This is all I got for now.
 
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This is the only area where I feel like it might be worth disputing. Ravenous, 4/6 vs Royal Storm I can accept. Ethereal though? I don't think so.

I'm thinking 5/5 at worst.

Neither character can throw projectiles against the other, but really Mileena can throw more than Kitana can (but admittedly gets less off of a success). Kitana has to worry about the teleport kick the whole time so she can't effectively air fan, she's taking a risk on those. We only need to worry about EX Lift if she has a bar.

Looking at frame data, her startups are actually just as bad as ours (which kinda surprised me), and in many ways our strings are better. I'd say up close, we win this MU just a little. Using ethereal allows us to punish the inevitable run in attempt while we wade through the sea of fans. Like Mileena, Kitana struggles to KEEP pressure, but Ethereal's +fades allow us to maintain pressure FAR better than Kitana could even hope to.

That said, I'm not confident in saying that we would have ADVANTAGE in the matchup so I'd settle for ethereal still being 5/5. Kitana wins in that Mileena is more likely to get impatient, but if both parties have equal patience and skill, I'd say it's a solid 5/5.

I know you were just throwing numbers out, but I'm curious to hear your rationale
Well I've played vs Kitana a bit, and honestly, my thoughts went to damage and usefulness of EX Fade. EX Fade is amazing anyways, but as you said, Kitana isn't really a rushdown machine where Ethereal is a major threat. And Ethereal without meter is the least damaging variation so Kitana's damage nerfs don't matter as much. I also feel Piercing does better than Ethereal in the Kitana MU, but I didn't want to say Piercing WINS the MU. So if Piercing is 5/5 to me, than Ethereal is only slightly worse, imo.

Mileena can counter zone in all variations so that's a non-issue. I didn't know Kitana's frames were so bad. In that case, Ravenous is probably even at worst since High Pounce is safe.
 
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Jolt

Uprise
Well honestly, my thoughts went to damage and usefulness of EX Fade. EX Fade is amazing anyways, but as you said, Kitana isn't really a rushdown machine where Ethereal is a major threat. And Ethereal without meter is the least damaging variation so Kitana's damage nerfs don't matter as much.

Mileena can counter zone in all variations so that's a non-issue. I didn't know Kitana's frames were so bad. In that case, Ravenous is probably even at worst since High Pounce is safe.
Good point. I would still give Piercing the go-to in this matchup just because of less meter reliance.

Kitana's frames aren't the world's worst (I personally think Jason's are lol). She just has NO 6 or 7 framers, her fastest startups are at 8 which isn't terrible in itself, but she'll have to work to get a GOOD punish on us if we stay safe. She doesn't have many plus frames to play with over us so there's a lot of situations where we don't have to be as cautious as we normally would especially if we have the bars for pressure/mixup.
 
Good point. I would still give Piercing the go-to in this matchup just because of less meter reliance.

Kitana's frames aren't the world's worst (I personally think Jason's are lol). She just has NO 6 or 7 framers, her fastest startups are at 8 which isn't terrible in itself, but she'll have to work to get a GOOD punish on us if we stay safe. She doesn't have many plus frames to play with over us so there's a lot of situations where we don't have to be as cautious as we normally would especially if we have the bars for pressure/mixup.
I edited my post slightly. I agree about Piercing.