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MK11 SHANG TSUNG Discussion

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Wow that was just sitting there the whole time, I've had this hit reaction happen a bunch of times as poke~flames is pretty good. Always thought of it as a good trade. This is a god damn great find, but I'm not sure if it works against pokes with higher hit advantage. Probably not that ground breaking as poke~flames is unsafe in some way against most characters but it makes his poke special game that much better and there are some characters that can't deal with it well. Keep in mind that the kustom reversal is a frame delayed so you can't test this perfectly with it. And it works better with d3/d4 because of the cancel advantage and range.

If you space a D4~Flames Amp well against Jacqui, her only option besides Fatal Blow to kounter you is to D3 after your D4 which was a bad trade on its own. But now, that's the most dangerous option that Jacqui could go for. Love shit like this
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Oof man, Spellmaster does not seem to do well against Cetrion. I have room to improve in that matchup but it's like you are playing a rushdown character. He doesn't have much to contend with full screen. Might have to just suck it up and play Soultaker against her. Not sure about V3 Cetrion though.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
What's the armor break to be Shang gang?

F4? It has a KB, but it's kinda slow.

F3 launch?

B2? It can be special cancelled or you could do B112.

Slide?
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Aftermath Shang Notes
  • Shang Tsung - The hit reaction of Reserved Pain (Away + Front Punch, Down + Back Punch) Krushing Blow now leaves the opponent slightly closer to Shang Tsung
  • Shang Tsung - Spiritual Eruption (Away + Back Punch) is now +13 on hit (down from +16)
  • Shang Tsung - Skull Collapse (Towards + Back Punch) is now +9 on hit (up from +6)
  • Shang Tsung - Shapeshifter (Towards + Back Punch, Back Kick) is now +13 on hit (up from +5)
  • Shang Tsung - Sternum Breaker (Front Kick) is now +11 on hit (up from +8)
  • Shang Tsung - Throat Kick (Back Kick) is now +20 on hit (up from +12)
  • Shang Tsung - Morphing back into Shang Tsung after Soul Steal has finished now enables blocking in 3 frames (down from 7)
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now has 25 startup frames (down from 29), 1 less recovery frame on hit and miss, 4 more recovery frames on block, and slightly reduced the time to charge to higher power levels
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now breaks armor, and causes a different hit reaction when armor is broken
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now retains charge level when cancelled
  • Shang Tsung - level 2 & level 3 of Scatter Souls when Flawless Blocked now has 5 more blockstun frames with slightly increased block pushback
  • Shang Tsung - Level 4 of Scatter Souls when Flawless Blocked now has 15 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback
  • Shang Tsung - Screaming Soul Cancel no longer enables autoblock and can only be done once per combo
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue while morphed where damage would not be increased for the last few frames of being morphed
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue that could cause certain attacks to not be possible for the first few frames after the opponent has been hit by Soul Steal
  • Shang Tsung - Shang Tsung can no longer remain morphed as Sindel for an extended time by repeatedly performing Dash ((Air) Regal Presence)
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed issue allowing special cancels into Absorb Souls without Soul Well activated
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed issue with opponent's interactables auto-correcting when Soul Swap is performed at certain timing
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue that could cause Sorcery Rush, Slide, & Superkick to lose trades against certain attacks
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a visual issue which could cause clipping when Tele-Slam Amplified Krushing Blow is performed on Kollector
Spellmaster buffs!!!!!



B12 hit reaction change makes combos easier all around, they might have changed it just to give Spellmaster easier armor breaks with the newly buffed Soul Scatter.

There's a few hit advantage changes, B2 has less hit advantage but in exchange, F2, F24, 3 and 4 all have significantly more hit advantage. Haven't looked at other character's notes so they may have adjusted hit advantage all around but I like getting more from those hits, particularly F2. These changes were probably more about the cancels for the newly improved Spellmaster, but the other variations benefit as well.

Morphing is more safe now! Your souls are less risky to steal and that's a good thing to hear.

Scatter Souls has been dramatically buffed, the faster startup allows it to connect from F24 and B1, and the gap to interrupt it on different stuff is much smaller than before. The block frames have been nerfed to be unsafe at -10 but the move actually works now! You can charge it and save the charge! It charges fast! You should be able to get a 2nd level charge(-5, pushback) on block sometimes as it charges pretty fast but you can now save your charge after you cancel it, making this much more useful on block as a consistently safe mid special. The highest level charge is -0 on block, a nice 120 damage and a ton of pushback. That the charge actually matters makes the move better in neutral and gives the amplify version more reason to exist. It being faster also means slightly better cancels which helps the new charge buff. So you can do like anything into this move for safety and pushback, assuming you can get a charged version of the move out. The flawless block stuff is there to add some counterplay.

Scatter Souls is also now an armor breaking move. The hit reaction is seemingly identical to Soul Scatter amplify.(Meaning you can't combo it into Soul Scatter amp.) I imagine you'll mainly get this from D2(KB) as B12(KB) can still be escaped from. But it's a move you could see being done on a fatal blow armor too so it's a nice move for the armor break. The damage from the charge does significantly add to the combo!


D2(KB), DF3(Armor break), dash, JI2, 4~SSC, S3u2~DB1 Amp (501, even more damage with charged DF3!)

SCREAMING SOUL CANCEL COMBOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! Holy shit NRS best patch ever!!! This raises his damage output and allows him to hit confirm certain strings(perhaps normals even) into damage which is gonna make his pressure really great on top of his other tools.

B2~SSC, 3U2~DB1 (233, 277 Amp)

4~SSC, 3U3~DB1 (250, 297 Amp)

F24~SSC, 3U2~DB1 (232, 274 Amp) *Sheeva only?

Corner:

B1~SSC, 114~DB1

B11~SSC, 114~DB1 (220, 257 Amp)

21~SSC, 114~DB1 (220, 257 Amp, Very tight)

B2~SSC, B3U4~DB1 (198, 242 Amp) - B2112 and B2~SSC, B3 is a mixup too

F24~SSC, B3U4~DB1 (199, 241 Amp)


3U2~SSC, 3U2~DB1 (271, 313 Amp)

(Added some more combos)*


But wait! There's more Spellmaster buffs! Soul Jar has changed so that when you special cancel it, it no longer automatically heals, regardless if you had Jar up or not. Before you could end combos early to possibly get a heal, now you can do it do possibly get a Jar out. Better because the Jar is slightly faster and has more possible reward. Still not going to be a great move probably but I think they buffed the shit out of this character and I'm really glad to see it. Honestly proud of NRS for taking the time to really finish the character, was way too cool of a design to not see it get to flourish. Now to enjoy this juicy Story mode!
 
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DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Aftermath Shang Notes
  • Shang Tsung - The hit reaction of Reserved Pain (Away + Front Punch, Down + Back Punch) Krushing Blow now leaves the opponent slightly closer to Shang Tsung
  • Shang Tsung - Spiritual Eruption (Away + Back Punch) is now +13 on hit (down from +16)
  • Shang Tsung - Skull Collapse (Towards + Back Punch) is now +9 on hit (up from +6)
  • Shang Tsung - Shapeshifter (Towards + Back Punch, Back Kick) is now +13 on hit (up from +5)
  • Shang Tsung - Sternum Breaker (Front Kick) is now +11 on hit (up from +8)
  • Shang Tsung - Throat Kick (Back Kick) is now +20 on hit (up from +12)
  • Shang Tsung - Morphing back into Shang Tsung after Soul Steal has finished now enables blocking in 3 frames (down from 7)
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now has 25 startup frames (down from 29), 1 less recovery frame on hit and miss, 4 more recovery frames on block, and slightly reduced the time to charge to higher power levels
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now breaks armor, and causes a different hit reaction when armor is broken
  • Shang Tsung - Scatter Souls now retains charge level when cancelled
  • Shang Tsung - level 2 & level 3 of Scatter Souls when Flawless Blocked now has 5 more blockstun frames with slightly increased block pushback
  • Shang Tsung - Level 4 of Scatter Souls when Flawless Blocked now has 15 more blockstun frames with increased block pushback
  • Shang Tsung - Screaming Soul Cancel no longer enables autoblock and can only be done once per combo
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue while morphed where damage would not be increased for the last few frames of being morphed
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue that could cause certain attacks to not be possible for the first few frames after the opponent has been hit by Soul Steal
  • Shang Tsung - Shang Tsung can no longer remain morphed as Sindel for an extended time by repeatedly performing Dash ((Air) Regal Presence)
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed issue allowing special cancels into Absorb Souls without Soul Well activated
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed issue with opponent's interactables auto-correcting when Soul Swap is performed at certain timing
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a rare issue that could cause Sorcery Rush, Slide, & Superkick to lose trades against certain attacks
  • Shang Tsung - Fixed a visual issue which could cause clipping when Tele-Slam Amplified Krushing Blow is performed on Kollector
Spellmaster buffs!!!!!



B12 hit reaction change makes combos easier all around, they might have changed it just to give Spellmaster easier armor breaks with the newly buffed Soul Scatter.

There's a few hit advantage changes, B2 has less hit advantage but in exchange, F2, F24, 3 and 4 all have significantly more hit advantage. Haven't looked at other character's notes so they may have adjusted hit advantage all around but I like getting more from those hits, particularly F2. These changes were probably more about the cancels for the newly improved Spellmaster, but the other variations benefit as well.

Morphing is more safe now! Your souls are less risky to steal and that's a good thing to hear.

Scatter Souls has been dramatically buffed, the faster startup allows it to connect from F24 and B1, and the gap to interrupt it on different stuff is much smaller than before. The block frames have been nerfed to be unsafe at -10 but the move actually works now! You can charge it and save the charge! It charges fast! You should be able to get a 2nd level charge(-5, pushback) on block sometimes as it charges pretty fast but you can now save your charge after you cancel it, making this much more useful on block as a consistently safe mid special. The highest level charge is -0 on block, a nice 120 damage and a ton of pushback. That the charge actually matters makes the move better in neutral and gives the amplify version more reason to exist. It being faster also means slightly better cancels which helps the new charge buff. So you can do like anything into this move for safety and pushback, assuming you can get a charged version of the move out. The flawless block stuff is there to add some counterplay.

Scatter Souls is also now an armor breaking move. The hit reaction is seemingly identical to Soul Scatter amplify.(Meaning you can't combo it into Soul Scatter amp.) I imagine you'll mainly get this from D2(KB) as B12(KB) can still be escaped from. But it's a move you could see being done on a fatal blow armor too so it's a nice move for the armor break. The damage from the charge does significantly add to the combo!


D2(KB), DF3(Armor break), dash, JI2, 4~SSC, S3u2~DB1 Amp (501, even more damage with charged DF3!)

SCREAMING SOUL CANCEL COMBOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!! Holy shit NRS best patch ever!!! This raises his damage output and allows him to hit confirm certain strings(perhaps normals even) into damage which is gonna make his pressure really great on top of his other tools.

B2~SSC, 3U3~DB1 (233, 277 Amp)

4~SSC, 3U3~DB1 (250, 297 Amp)

Corner:

B11~SSC, 114~DB1 (220, 257 Amp)

21~SSC, 114~DB1 (220, 257 Amp, Very tight)

B2~SSC, B3U4~DB1 (198, 242 Amp) - B2112 and B2~SSC, B3 is a mixup too

F24~SSC, B3U4~DB1 (199, 241 Amp)

F24~SSC, 3U2~DB1 (232, 274 Amp)


3U3~SSC, 3U3~DB1 (271, 313 Amp)

But wait! There's more Spellmaster buffs! Soul Jar has changed so that when you special cancel it, it no longer automatically heals, regardless if you had Jar up or not. Before you could end combos early to possibly get a heal, now you can do it do possibly get a Jar out. Better because the Jar is slightly faster and has more possible reward. Still not going to be a great move probably but I think they buffed the shit out of this character and I'm really glad to see it. Honestly proud of NRS for taking the time to really finish the character, was way too cool of a design to not see it get to flourish. Now to enjoy this juicy Story mode!
Dude these Spellmaster changes look like a TON of fun, I'm picking him up for sure!
 

DeftMonk

Noob
has shang always been able to do combos with screaming soul cancel in variation 2 or is this some aftermath only thing?? I honestly never noticed if its always been there... Stuff like 4 soul cancel 4 crashing flames mid screen and all heaps of crap in the corner.

Nevermind just ssaw posts above...this is hella dope. Well I have been rewarded for sticking with this poop variation after all lol.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
The opponent can't breakout of the first hit after D2(KB) without risking getting hit by Soul Scatter. F242 allows you to get it on late breakaway. B1D2(KB) allows the opponent to breakaway early but not late or on delay. Soul Steal Throw KB doesn't seem promising for armor breaks. It's feasible that you could make a read with Soul Scatter on random juggles, but I think the most practical usage is going to be from the D2 KB. The threat of it should also allow Spellmaster to squeeze out a little more damage on an opponent who is using breakaway. You got to think like even if you just do D2(KB) into D2 and they were scared to break, you will get more damage because they didn't armor. And if you can land the armor break, ohh boy, the damage


Corner: D2(KB), DF3(Break), DF3 Amp, JI2~3U2~SSC, 3U2~DB1 Amp (547, 598 with level 4 Scatter)

If you lack offensive meter on an armor break combo you could end in +20 S4, though it might be better to go for DB1 in midscreen or even take the +1 hit advantage in the corner.
 
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Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
Juicy tech time boys, let's talk about the change to B1D2(KB). So at first, I thought the idea was to give Spellmaster the ability to use his armor break but the opponent can do a fast breakout and avoid it. Then I realized that it's the perfect juggle arc for D2 combos, and then I remembered that people use D2 to "punish" breakaway...


This ends up being a nice buff for all variations, turning B1D2(KB), D2) into unbreakable damage that potentially leads to more.

Combos:

B1D2(KB), D2 (232, 209 if the opponent breaks out)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~Slide (293)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~Soul Steal (286, 302 Amp)

Warlock:

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 (291, 302 Amp - Don't think you can convert from the Amp hit)

Souleater:

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 (275)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 Amp, dash~D2 (350)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 Amp, dash~1, dash~D2 (355, less hit advantage)
 

RAYBAANN

Noob
Juicy tech time boys, let's talk about the change to B1D2(KB). So at first, I thought the idea was to give Spellmaster the ability to use his armor break but the opponent can do a fast breakout and avoid it. Then I realized that it's the perfect juggle arc for D2 combos, and then I remembered that people use D2 to "punish" breakaway...


This ends up being a nice buff for all variations, turning B1D2(KB), D2) into unbreakable damage that potentially leads to more.

Combos:

B1D2(KB), D2 (232, 209 if the opponent breaks out)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~Slide (293)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~Soul Steal (286, 302 Amp)

Warlock:

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 (291, 302 Amp - Don't think you can convert from the Amp hit)

Souleater:

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 (275)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 Amp, dash~D2 (350)

B1D2(KB), D2, B3~DB1 Amp, dash~1, dash~D2 (355, less hit advantage)
You can micro dash before the D2, it lets you slightly closer to the opponent, so you can do things like 21 + ground skulls or comets, even D1 ~ micro dash S4 into slide (not the Reptile one). Today I'll post these things plus other techs. Anyway, good work!!!