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MK11 Johnny Cage General Discussion

Pretty hype Kombat Cup finale last night. Kombat's Johnny is on another level. I wasn't sure if his Showstopper pick vs Honeybees D'vorah was by accident or not but it worked out regardless. Thought that pick was interesting.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
So which one currently is his best variation? Outtake or Showstopper?
Overall, Outtake is arguably better. On the other hand, Showstopper seems better in certain match ups in which EX forceballs jail.

I am no Johnny Cage player, but that is how I see players generally use the two variations in recent online tournaments. Tweedy, who has been very successful in the last two online tournaments, also alternates between the two variations based on match ups.
 

HoangS-Z

Learn From This!
Overall, Outtake is arguably better. On the other hand, Showstopper seems better in certain match ups in which EX forceballs jail.

I am no Johnny Cage player, but that is how I see players generally use the two variations in recent online tournaments. Tweedy, who has been very successful in the last two online tournaments, also alternates between the two variations based on match ups.
Yes I saw many Cage players succeed with Outtake, but in the lastest patch they nerfed his Rising Star that costs him 2 bars on block so I wonder does it make Outtake weaker than Showstopper by any chance? Especially I just watched K&M's variation tier list 2 days ago and it seems like they place Showstopper above Outtake
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Yes I saw many Cage players succeed with Outtake, but in the lastest patch they nerfed his Rising Star that costs him 2 bars on block so I wonder does it make Outtake weaker than Showstopper by any chance? Especially I just watched K&M's variation tier list 2 days ago and it seems like they place Showstopper above Outtake
Based on tournament results, Johnny Cage is one of a handful of characters who has two viable variations. So trying to figure out which of the two variations is the superior one overall is futile in my opinion, especially when match ups determine which you pick. I believe that gameplay style preference also plays a major role. If you are good at controlling space and playing footsies, Outtake is the way to go. If you are good at playing offensive and making comebacks, Showstopper is the way to go. So I guess to reiterate, Johnny Cage players choose Outtake or Showstopper depending on the match up and gameplay style preference because both are viable variations as tournament results indicate.
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
  • Johnny Cage - Fix It In Post (Front Punch, Back Punch, Back Kick) now has 5 less blockstun frames
    [*]Johnny Cage - Cage Match (Front Kick, Back Kick, Up + Front Kick) now has 5 less blockstun frames
    [*]Johnny Cage - Straight Forceball Amplify now has 5 less blockstun frames
    [*]Johnny Cage - Flippy Kick now breaks armor
    [*]Johnny Cage - Nut Punch can now be both high and low parried
    [*]Johnny Cage - Fixed a rare issue that could cause Shadow Kick to lose trades against certain attacks
    [*]Johnny Cage - Fixed issue with Stunt Double instantly disappearing off screen after completing its attack in certain circumstances
So, what do we think about these?

Personally, I'm not surprised we lost the plus frames since that seemed to be the main thing a lot of people were pointing at. But I expected much worse, like a gap in 124/34U3, or nerfed damage. But Showstopper still has its unbreakable damage, Outtake still has its zoning, and Shock Jock is still in the dumpster (RIP), so I don't know for sure what this'll mean for Johnny in the long run.

Flippy Kick breaking armor is cool, I guess, but I don't know how much more useful it'll be than an uppercut unless it launches for another combo.

Any extra thoughts?
 
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So, what do we think about these? Personally, I'm not surprised we lost the plus frames since that seemed to be the main thing a lot of people were pointing at. But I expected much worse, like a gap in 124/34U3, or nerfed damage. But Showstopper still has its unbreakable damage, Outtake still has its zoning, and Shock Jock is still in the dumpster (RIP), so I don't know for sure what this'll mean for Johnny in the long run.

Flippy Kick breaking armor is cool, I guess, but I don't know how much more useful it'll be than an uppercut unless it launches for another combo.

Any extra thoughts?
I honestly don’t think the changes really effect outtake all that much honestly as 124 and 34u3 still give him the pushback and spacing to play his footsies and he wasn’t really able to use his forceballs as plus frames anyways.

It’s odd because everyone was constantly complaining about outtake and it will probably virtually play the same.

RIP the other two though.
 
I personally think its going to be a lot easier to mash against johnny now. His plus frames never really guaranteed anything besides in the corner. And him being all highs doesn’t really help. I know his plus frames were definitely a lot in the corner but jeez. Definitely gonna need to get used to this nerf
 
why the fuck have they not buffed his v1 with all these universal changes. Lazy idiots strike again

also think these changes are pretty severe.
I honestly think it was a knee jerk nerf too many people complaining just off the strength of so many pros using him even if they weren’t encountering him themselves. I’m surprised nothing really happened to jacqui and Liu though.
 
I honestly think it was a knee jerk nerf too many people complaining just off the strength of so many pros using him even if they weren’t encountering him themselves. I’m surprised nothing really happened to jacqui and Liu though.
Definitely agree with this. Im not tryna downplay johnny cause he was definitely top tier. But johnny can’t really enforce his footsies with how slow his normals are. I feel like plus 3 wouldve been a more fair nerf. But they might as well have made it 0 on block at this point. We got mkx’ed lol
 

FoughtDragon01

Ask me about my Mileena agenda.
Definitely agree with this. Im not tryna downplay johnny cause he was definitely top tier. But johnny can’t really enforce his footsies with how slow his normals are. I feel like plus 3 wouldve been a more fair nerf. But they might as well have made it 0 on block at this point. We got mkx’ed lol
It's just annoying how there's basically no compensation here. Shock Jock really needs something now for it to be even remotely relevant. Before this, I'd be willing to admit that base Johnny alone could carry it (which makes sense, since you were basically were playing base Johnny for 90% of the match), but now they're neutered what made base Johnny so good.

We need Shock Jock specific buffs in the next patch for it to complete. Something like Amp'd Knuckles that can continue block strings or actually increase combo damage instead of just chip, or a Caged Rage KB, or change the KB requirement for Mime Time for Christ's sake.
 
Johnny really got nerfed hard. Lost all of his plus frames (124 and forceballs). Flipkick armor break is actually useless lol


You do more damage just doing a d2 like we've been doing for the past year. These people have no idea what makes fighting games fun and balanced.
Lol nrs and balance. On one hand his 124 and 34u3 still have the pushback that excels his footsies. But other than that good luck enforcing those normals somehow. A flawless block gap would’ve been better imo than this. Mindgames with his 121 then. But what do I know
 

M.D.

Spammer. Crouch walk hater.
What did you expect?

Mikemetroid, Kombat, and all the Cage "mains" were literally the leading men in the witch hunt yelling on twitter and every other media Cage is broken, while literally ignoring all whiffing issues.

Enjoy reaping what you sow.

Now go win tournaments because he's balanced.

Good luck.
 

Mikemetroid

Who hired this guy, WTF?
What did you expect?

Mikemetroid, Kombat, and all the Cage "mains" were literally the leading men in the witch hunt yelling on twitter and every other media Cage is broken, while literally ignoring all whiffing issues.

Enjoy reaping what you sow.

Now go win tournaments because he's balanced.

Good luck.
At least they listened to me :rolleyes:

Can he juggle off that armor break in the corner?
No, the recovery is way too long. Jax gets better recovery when he armor breaks, why can't Johnny?
 
You know, at least they could make his f2 a mid or something. Now he's all highs, no mix, and not really plus. It feels like nrs just trying to to stir the pot once in a while so it'll not be boring but not really balance. Which is a shame cause pre patch it was actually close to being well balanced with most chars almost viable.
But who knows, time will tell..