MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

[wsj515]

View attachment 21926

To attempt to salvage this thread, this is my actual opinion. This list is ordered. Willing to discuss, but I'll break down some key points first.

My Top 5 is disgusting. The thing the Top 5 has in common is the ability to totally control the entire screen.

I have Homelander as the best character in the game. He controls the screen with his lasers and stance, has crazy mix ups with Ferra and his stance, and hits pretty hard off most every touch all with insane corner carry.

Sindel is similar to HL, using projectiles and movement to control the pace of the fight. What separates Sindel from the rest of the cast for me is her meterless restand and ability to setup HTB's and other great pressure with it, in conjunction with her great range on her normals and projectile game.

Nitara controls the screen with the threat of Divekick, Air Grab, and obviously, air movement. Nitara has the highest damage in the game, can heal her own health back, and maybe synergizes better with Ferra than anyone on the roster. 33/33/33 mixup off of most touches leading to 500 damage. The only flaws in this character is lower health and lack of safety, but the latter issue can be played around quite easily.

Tanya controls the screen a little differently than the previous three, but she still has the ability to lock you down. One of the best armor moves in the game that can be made safe on block and a pop up, one of the best if not the best mids in the game, several advancing specials that lead to combos, great projectile game, not on the level of the last characters, but pretty aerially mobile and pretty reasonable damage. All of this makes it hard to safely press a button against Tanya.

Johnny has the BEST mid in the game, IMO. There are arguments for Liu's F4, or Tanya's B2, but for my Money you gotta look at that knee. Fastest non-poke mid in the game, 10f armor move, plus frames off normals for days. Literally insane movement speed, great range and utility to normals, a restand, easy and good damage conversions, unblockable and cancellable Fatal Blow, best gimmick in the game with Star Power, just an absurd character design compared to a LOT of the cast.

The "Extremely Good," tier all have some area of the game they excel in.

The "Viable," tier is pretty much your average character. What they do well doesn't feel THAT strong or has pretty strong counterplay.

The "Some Bad MUs," tier is the characters that I feel struggle. Either one dimensional game plans, or bad frame data.

Would love to discuss with people.

This is a pretty woke tierlist overall, I particularly like how high Sub and PM are, and how low Rain is - I think he might be one of the most overrated characters in the game. Bottom 10 seems really low for him just with b3 alone since its such a good button, but overall the cast is all really good / pretty close, so I don't think its crazy. I can't see Li Mei being better than Mileena, Shao, Ermac - its likely Shao should be much higher, though maybe something has changed since kham nerfs but I don't see it.

Of course, main point of contention is Kenshi is still just way too high. Yeah sento is nuts but he has just as many bad MUs as the Bad MUs tier, if not more in some cases imo - with his saving grace being he can rob anyone at any time with sento.

 

[ImpostorOak]

This is a pretty woke tierlist overall, I particularly like how high Sub and PM are, and how low Rain is - I think he might be one of the most overrated characters in the game. Bottom 10 seems really low for him just with b3 alone since its such a good button, but overall the cast is all really good / pretty close, so I don't think its crazy. I can't see Li Mei being better than Mileena, Shao, Ermac - its likely Shao should be much higher, though maybe something has changed since kham nerfs but I don't see it.

Of course, main point of contention is Kenshi is still just way too high. Yeah sento is nuts but he has just as many bad MUs as the Bad MUs tier, if not more in some cases imo - with his saving grace is he can rob anyone at any time with sento.

Maybe the characters I play, (Liu, Takeda, Ermac, and Ashrah) all do well against Shao, but I don't see him as that threatening. Maybe higher than I've placed him, but he just seems like a character I can neutral duck and air to air for days. I see his kit and I see strength, but I don't rate him high based on like VGY or anyone, to me they're just insane players. My tierlist is based on my exp mostly and I just don't see Shao as that strong.

Li Mei point is solid, but Shao specifically I'm just not seeing. I could definitely be convinced otherwise, though.

Kenshi is such a hot topic rn. I think his ability to rob is what makes him where I put him. In his worst MU all he needs is one touch. I think Kenshi may be a character that requires different Kameos for each MU. Since I started using Scorpion Kameo with Takeda, I do see how reliable armor gives Kenshi a hard time, but in all honesty it's just not enough to bring him down a notch to me.

But, I know you're a good player and I respect your opinion. If you used my list as an example, where would you put Kenshi? Viable?

 

[wsj515]

Maybe the characters I play, (Liu, Takeda, Ermac, and Ashrah) all do well against Shao, but I don't see him as that threatening. Maybe higher than I've placed him, but he just seems like a character I can neutral duck and air to air for days. I see his kit and I see strength, but I don't rate him high based on like VGY or anyone, to me they're just insane players. My tierlist is based on my exp mostly and I just don't see Shao as that strong.

Li Mei point is solid, but Shao specifically I'm just not seeing. I could definitely be convinced otherwise, though.

Kenshi is such a hot topic rn. I think his ability to rob is what makes him where I put him. In his worst MU all he needs is one touch. I think Kenshi may be a character that requires different Kameos for each MU. Since I started using Scorpion Kameo with Takeda, I do see how reliable armor gives Kenshi a hard time, but in all honesty it's just not enough to bring him down a notch to me.

But, I know you're a good player and I respect your opinion. If you used my list as an example, where would you put Kenshi? Viable?

Not enough people pick Scorpion kameo into Kenshi, it's actually pretty impactful as he has to completely change his approach to sento oki into something way less scary. Its even better on characters not named Takeda where they can choose between Scorpion armor or their own ideally strong armor.

I don't think I'm comfortable dropping him into Viable, probably last of Extremely Good - but I might move Mileena and Shao above him. Since he's such a polar character (both literally in game and in a meta sense) he's extremely hard to rate imo without going through the herculean effort of creating a full on MU chart for the cast like Cease's a few months ago, then just "objectively" ordering each character based on their MU spread.

 

[Baconlord]

View attachment 21926

To attempt to salvage this thread, this is my actual opinion. This list is ordered. Willing to discuss, but I'll break down some key points first.

My Top 5 is disgusting. The thing the Top 5 has in common is the ability to totally control the entire screen.

I have Homelander as the best character in the game. He controls the screen with his lasers and stance, has crazy mix ups with Ferra and his stance, and hits pretty hard off most every touch all with insane corner carry.

Sindel is similar to HL, using projectiles and movement to control the pace of the fight. What separates Sindel from the rest of the cast for me is her meterless restand and ability to setup HTB's and other great pressure with it, in conjunction with her great range on her normals and projectile game.

Nitara controls the screen with the threat of Divekick, Air Grab, and obviously, air movement. Nitara has the highest damage in the game, can heal her own health back, and maybe synergizes better with Ferra than anyone on the roster. 33/33/33 mixup off of most touches leading to 500 damage. The only flaws in this character is lower health and lack of safety, but the latter issue can be played around quite easily.

Tanya controls the screen a little differently than the previous three, but she still has the ability to lock you down. One of the best armor moves in the game that can be made safe on block and a pop up, one of the best if not the best mids in the game, several advancing specials that lead to combos, great projectile game, not on the level of the last characters, but pretty aerially mobile and pretty reasonable damage. All of this makes it hard to safely press a button against Tanya.

Johnny has the BEST mid in the game, IMO. There are arguments for Liu's F4, or Tanya's B2, but for my Money you gotta look at that knee. Fastest non-poke mid in the game, 10f armor move, plus frames off normals for days. Literally insane movement speed, great range and utility to normals, a restand, easy and good damage conversions, unblockable and cancellable Fatal Blow, best gimmick in the game with Star Power, just an absurd character design compared to a LOT of the cast.

The "Extremely Good," tier all have some area of the game they excel in.

The "Viable," tier is pretty much your average character. What they do well doesn't feel THAT strong or has pretty strong counterplay.

The "Some Bad MUs," tier is the characters that I feel struggle. Either one dimensional game plans, or bad frame data.

Would love to discuss with people.

We heavy underrating reptile in this list. Character is mad good right now especially with Mavado. Rain also has way to low. Smoke and pm are mid high imo. Those characters are bottom 3 right now.

 

[ImpostorOak]

We heavy underrating reptile in this list. Character is mad good right now especially with Mavado. Rain also has way to low. Smoke and pm are mid high imo. Those characters are bottom 3 right now.

PM bottom 3? I can see Smoke being that low, but PM seems better than that to me. Curious to hear more on that?

And Reptile and Rain may be worth a second look for me, again this is all based on my exp which is somewhat influenced by me solo maining Takeda since he released.

What's the Reptile Mavado sauce? Sweep combos?

 

[Baconlord]

PM bottom 3? I can see Smoke being that low, but PM seems better than that to me. Curious to hear more on that?

And Reptile and Rain may be worth a second look for me, again this is all based on my exp which is somewhat influenced by me solo maining Takeda since he released.

What's the Reptile Mavado sauce? Sweep combos?

base reptile is just really solid right now. his midscreen game is really oppressive with s3 and b3. his offense is much better since his overhead was made safe and the invis mix got stronger with the charged overhead being plus. Mavado gives him easy throw combos that set up invis and makes his sweep one of the best buttons in the game. With Mavado sweep launches, is safe, and has a ton of pushback on block which lets you reset neutral and put you back in s3 range. Character just has some of the best midscreen tools in the game.

Rain is just b3 go brrrrrrr. b3 is like the unquestionable best button in the game. Rain also has one of the best strike throws because he gets great throw combos with a ton of kameos and 21 is one of the best auto shimmys.

Pm can get some value in matchups where he can just runaway all day but that just gets shut down by sub kameo hard. Eagley being made unsafe also just kills him because he lost his best way to reset neutral so he really struggles to get people off him (his armor getting nerfed hard doesn't help that either). He's just a very one dimensional zoner and he lacks the tools to really force that gameplan on the cast.

 

[kabelfritz]

Pm can get some value in matchups where he can just runaway all day but that just gets shut down by sub kameo hard. Eagley being made unsafe also just kills him because he lost his best way to reset neutral so he really struggles to get people off him (his armor getting nerfed hard doesn't help that either). He's just a very one dimensional zoner and he lacks the tools to really force that gameplan on the cast.

sounds like a case for sektor kameo

 

[Baconlord]

sounds like a case for sektor kameo

pm/sektor is pretty good but it doesn't really solve his problem matchups since it doesn't give him a ton of safety. it just makes him better in the matchups he's already good in.

 

[ImpostorOak]

Just fought a pretty good Reptile/Mavado and yeeeesh. I see. The knockdown mavado slide tech is nuts.