MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

[rifraf]

MF'ers will write essays and do mental gymnastics rather than play the game this site is about vs other people who also post here.

Honestly, just showing up, trying, and losing would command more respect.

I respect that, I just don't respect the bullying and harassment.

If he said "Rifraf is bad at the game that's why he's so wrong" I'd be giving him the exact same energy.

Ok, he didn't outright say it like I did but how else are you interpret this as a FIRST response?

lmao come on. you can't accuse people of not understanding the character then go say some blatantly wrong shit like this. those are absolutely not zoning tools and she pretty obviously has a sharp design aka the exact opposite of jack of all trades

maybe focus on grinding to level up your game/understanding of the character before asking for every buff imaginable and trying to regulate on other more informed people because it's just a bad look.

That's trash talk literally from the get go. Am I wrong in seeing it this way? Was he trying to be informing somehow?

 

[SaltShaker]

I wrestled in High School, I've Skateboarded my whole life, I'm into bodybuilding, I play basketball at my gym with a few guys(I'm not good or anything on this one tho lol), and I obviously play fighting games.

In every single one of those hobbies, if you talk shit about the activity to someone else, especially telling them they don't get the activity or are bad at it, it's pretty standard to challenge them to a competition.

In wrestling, we'd go 60 seconds. We'd play a game of Skate when on our wheelie boards. Game of 21 on the court. Beef Set here in the fgc.

And in this context, yeah, the person who wins is usually right and the loser can learn a few things. First, humility, second that the person you're talking to knows more than you thought. That should facilitate more respect in the future. Then, finally, you can learn from that person about the hobby or game.

Look at how @Vulgar and I were at each other's throats, but now get along pretty well.

This is 100% typical and healthy adult behavior. Your responses and interpretation of everything screams basement dweller.

I hope you decide to play any person from this site and get yo ass ate up like my gf going to tonight, but you won't. You posted selective footage of yourself and talk about yourself and your skill and knowledge of the game the way you do because you chase vanity. You want to be able to speak like an expert, but you have to earn that respect in any field, and you're refusing to.

I'm not gonna be rude or humorous with you anymore, you've been insulting to several people. Put up or shut up, man.

I missed replying to this during all the chatter but this is dead on. When I played football I remember one time yelling out our CB that he was missing his tackles. He replied something like "chill out, we're still up" or something like that, and I said something along the lines of "this is why dudes who are afraid to defend their girl shouldn't play football" (referencing a situation he had with his gf that was recent at the time) because I was upset that we might blow the game. When we got to the sidelines he said "say that to my face after the game".

Now I'm left with two options. Back up my claim that he was a coward and say it two his face. Or apologize and let him know I said it in the heat of the moment out of line and was trying to win the game.

Being young and dumb I chose option 1 lol, and we got into a big fight in the locker room after the game. We were forced to do some random "detention" type thing were we had to sit in a room with each other for two hours doing schoolwork. Afterwards I gained respect for him for calling me out and he respected me for not backing down, and we became friends for years.

All this to say, this is how many things typically are resolved in competitive environments.

 

[wsj515]

That's trash talk literally from the get go. Am I wrong in seeing it this way? Was he trying to be informing somehow?

I mean you were talking trash even before this to @kabelfritz - you gave us the receipts, we can see the post. You threw the first stone, multiple in fact prior to @Evantabes coming into the discussion.

 

[rifraf]

I mean you were talking trash even before this to @kabelfritz

That guy wasn't even a Li Mei main. He didn't play the character since BETA. And you're saying I threw the first stone? I can't.

 

[wsj515]

That guy wasn't even a Li Mei main. He didn't play the character since BETA. And you're saying I threw the first stone? I can't.

You can not main a character and still understand a character, that’s a really silly argument - bringing this back on topic for a sec, does that mean your whole tier list is bunk because you don’t main the whole cast??

E.g. you don’t main Kenshi, clearly you don’t understand him or his tools well enough to place him top 3 lmao

Yes, you threw the first stone.

 

[rifraf]

You can not main a character and still understand a character,

Absolutely. You know what you cant do? Not main a character and go in a character's main thread and talk like you're the shit and you know exactly what's up with that character. No, you cant do that. You will be put into place by the character's mains like it happened when @Pan1cMode and me responded to him.

 

[wsj515]

Absolutely. You know what you cant do? Not main a character and go in a character's main thread and talk like you're the shit and you know exactly what's up with that character. No, you cant do that. You will be put into place by the character's mains like it happened when @Pan1cMode and me responded to him.

And again we all read the thread, that isn’t what happened. You guys wrongly called him out for thinking you could enh the OH kick, then you in particular downplayed the benefits of a move that offers alternate options in the air, low crushes, is a really fast OH, and leads to good damage.

this isn’t about Li Mei and her tools though - how do you expect to have constructive discussions and “gain knowledge” when your go-to response to disagreements is “you don’t get it because you’re bad”?

 

[kabelfritz]

ive been tagged here and wtf is going on here?

and lol nobody put me into place. you didnt respond to my last quote of you there (and i was happy about that, i dont want to spend energy anymore there, so please dont do it now). neither did panicmode answer to my answer to him, but he never gave me the impression of being an irrational discussion partner elsewhere. and btw i stand by everything ive said about li mei, even more after i played her for like 200 more matches since then. quick projectile, safe launcher, good plusframes, (kameo-covertable) 7f reversal that can punish pokes for 300+ damage? sure, give me some more neutral and zoning buffs.

just please leave me out of this.

 

[SaltShaker]

Li Mei bottom tier confirmed.

 

[ImpostorOak]

My new Tierlist after listening to TOP players who really understand the game, not some scrubs who only play bad players

 

[rifraf]

And again we all read the thread, that isn’t what happened. You guys wrongly called him out for thinking you could enh the OH kick, then you in particular downplayed the benefits of a move that offers alternate options in the air, low crushes, is a really fast OH, and leads to good damage.

That's very debatable. From what actually happened, to what the move in question does or does not.

this isn’t about Li Mei and her tools though - how do you expect to have constructive discussions and “gain knowledge” when your go-to response to disagreements is “you don’t get it because you’re bad”?

That's not the case though. But if that's your opinion; sure, have at it.

 

[Vulgar]

This thread fucking sucks.

 

[rifraf]

New tier list by @ImpostorOak and gang

 

[ImpostorOak]

New tier list by @ImpostorOak and gang

View attachment 21924

 

[ImpostorOak]

To attempt to salvage this thread, this is my actual opinion. This list is ordered. Willing to discuss, but I'll break down some key points first.

My Top 5 is disgusting. The thing the Top 5 has in common is the ability to totally control the entire screen.

I have Homelander as the best character in the game. He controls the screen with his lasers and stance, has crazy mix ups with Ferra and his stance, and hits pretty hard off most every touch all with insane corner carry.

Sindel is similar to HL, using projectiles and movement to control the pace of the fight. What separates Sindel from the rest of the cast for me is her meterless restand and ability to setup HTB's and other great pressure with it, in conjunction with her great range on her normals and projectile game.

Nitara controls the screen with the threat of Divekick, Air Grab, and obviously, air movement. Nitara has the highest damage in the game, can heal her own health back, and maybe synergizes better with Ferra than anyone on the roster. 33/33/33 mixup off of most touches leading to 500 damage. The only flaws in this character is lower health and lack of safety, but the latter issue can be played around quite easily.

Tanya controls the screen a little differently than the previous three, but she still has the ability to lock you down. One of the best armor moves in the game that can be made safe on block and a pop up, one of the best if not the best mids in the game, several advancing specials that lead to combos, great projectile game, not on the level of the last characters, but pretty aerially mobile and pretty reasonable damage. All of this makes it hard to safely press a button against Tanya.

Johnny has the BEST mid in the game, IMO. There are arguments for Liu's F4, or Tanya's B2, but for my Money you gotta look at that knee. Fastest non-poke mid in the game, 10f armor move, plus frames off normals for days. Literally insane movement speed, great range and utility to normals, a restand, easy and good damage conversions, unblockable and cancellable Fatal Blow, best gimmick in the game with Star Power, just an absurd character design compared to a LOT of the cast.

The "Extremely Good," tier all have some area of the game they excel in.

The "Viable," tier is pretty much your average character. What they do well doesn't feel THAT strong or has pretty strong counterplay.

The "Some Bad MUs," tier is the characters that I feel struggle. Either one dimensional game plans, or bad frame data.

Would love to discuss with people.

 

[Vulgar]

View attachment 21926

To attempt to salvage this thread, this is my actual opinion. This list is ordered. Willing to discuss, but I'll break down some key points first.

My Top 5 is disgusting. The thing the Top 5 has in common is the ability to totally control the entire screen.

I have Homelander as the best character in the game. He controls the screen with his lasers and stance, has crazy mix ups with Ferra and his stance, and hits pretty hard off most every touch all with insane corner carry.

Sindel is similar to HL, using projectiles and movement to control the pace of the fight. What separates Sindel from the rest of the cast for me is her meterless restand and ability to setup HTB's and other great pressure with it, in conjunction with her great range on her normals and projectile game.

Nitara controls the screen with the threat of Divekick, Air Grab, and obviously, air movement. Nitara has the highest damage in the game, can heal her own health back, and maybe synergizes better with Ferra than anyone on the roster. 33/33/33 mixup off of most touches leading to 500 damage. The only flaws in this character is lower health and lack of safety, but the latter issue can be played around quite easily.

Tanya controls the screen a little differently than the previous three, but she still has the ability to lock you down. One of the best armor moves in the game that can be made safe on block and a pop up, one of the best if not the best mids in the game, several advancing specials that lead to combos, great projectile game, not on the level of the last characters, but pretty aerially mobile and pretty reasonable damage. All of this makes it hard to safely press a button against Tanya.

Johnny has the BEST mid in the game, IMO. There are arguments for Liu's F4, or Tanya's B2, but for my Money you gotta look at that knee. Fastest non-poke mid in the game, 10f armor move, plus frames off normals for days. Literally insane movement speed, great range and utility to normals, a restand, easy and good damage conversions, unblockable and cancellable Fatal Blow, best gimmick in the game with Star Power, just an absurd character design compared to a LOT of the cast.

The "Extremely Good," tier all have some area of the game they excel in.

The "Viable," tier is pretty much your average character. What they do well doesn't feel THAT strong or has pretty strong counterplay.

The "Some Bad MUs," tier is the characters that I feel struggle. Either one dimensional game plans, or bad frame data.

Would love to discuss with people.

There's no way on God's green and verdant Earth that Takeda has no winning match ups.

I'm almost positive he beats Havik.

 

[Promethium77]

 

[ImpostorOak]

There's no way on God's green and verdant Earth that Takeda has no winning match ups.

I'm almost positive he beats Havik.

Funny enough, his entire matchup chart is 2-8s. I know it's hard to believe, I don't want it to be true myself, but Takeda even loses the mirror match pretty badly.

 

[Vulgar]

Funny enough, his entire matchup chart is 2-8s. I know it's hard to believe, I don't want it to be true myself, but Takeda even loses the mirror match pretty badly.

I'm deceased.

 

[ImpostorOak]

There's no way on God's green and verdant Earth that Takeda has no winning match ups.

I'm almost positive he beats Havik.

To be more real with you, I don't think he beats Havik. It may be 5-5, but almost every character can bully Takeda up close and only have to worry about getting poked, You have to be in a situation where you're +EIGHT for your mid to not lose to mashing. Havik does want the mid/full screen space often and can really just send out blood balls. I havent played the MU a ton, honestly, but I don't think Takeda wins MUs, not even that one.

 

[Vulgar]

To be more real with you, I don't think he beats Havik. It may be 5-5, but almost every character can bully Takeda up close and only have to worry about getting poked, You have to be in a situation where you're +EIGHT for your mid to not lose to mashing. Havik does want the mid/full screen space often and can really just send out blood balls. I havent played the MU a ton, honestly, but I don't think Takeda wins MUs, not even that one.

So from my (admittedly) limited experience in the MU, Takeda can blow up blood balls with his air kunai. Not on reaction per se, but if you're trying to zone with it with Havik, I think Takeda's air kunai can answer it.

Now in the neutral game, I'm a bit undecided. On one hand, I've experienced Takeda whiff punish Havik D4s with that super long string of his, but that's probably a read.

Up close, I do think Havik does well with his plus frames given Takeda's not great armor, but when it comes to punishes/damage, Takeda is hitting Havik for twice as much as Havik can hit him for without tether.

I will say that it seems like Takeda's answer to tether isn't amazing.

So...

I don't fucking know, man. I just can't see how he doesn't beat at least one character.

 

[ImpostorOak]

So from my (admittedly) limited experience in the MU, Takeda can blow up blood balls with his air kunai. Not on reaction per se, but if you're trying to zone with it with Havik, I think Takeda's air kunai can answer it.

Now in the neutral game, I'm a bit undecided. On one hand, I've experienced Takeda whiff punish Havik D4s with that super long string of his, but that's probably a read.

Up close, I do think Havik does well with his plus frames given Takeda's not great armor, but when it comes to punishes/damage, Takeda is hitting Havik for twice as much as Havik can hit him for without tether.

I will say that it seems like Takeda's answer to tether isn't amazing.

So...

I don't fucking know, man. I just can't see how he doesn't beat at least one character.

Yeah, that's how I do play the MU but it's a read to air kunai. You throw a Kunai at the wrong time and your hit by the blood ball and it's a stagger on Havik vs Bloodball knocking you down out of the air, so he has the advantage.

B21 is 20 frame startup, you can use it to punish big whiffs but forcing the whiffs is the key and that's more of a player skill vs character skill.

F1 is really good in the MU for Takeda, and you're right about hitting hard when you get a hit but Havik is also a higher health pool character himself, while Takeda is at 1000 with his optimal(imo) Kameo.

Also, the answer to tether is Scorpion BKameo. I don't even use Takeda's armor much anymore.

Im not saying Takeda loses, but i think its even. I think Takeda goes even with several characters, but loses a LOT of MUs. Idk, if anyone wants to run the MU I'd be down to grind it out.

 

[wsj515]

To be more real with you, I don't think he beats Havik. It may be 5-5, but almost every character can bully Takeda up close and only have to worry about getting poked, You have to be in a situation where you're +EIGHT for your mid to not lose to mashing. Havik does want the mid/full screen space often and can really just send out blood balls. I havent played the MU a ton, honestly, but I don't think Takeda wins MUs, not even that one.

how does the Reiko MU play out in your opinion? I just started dabbling with him in kasuals and am no where near good yet, but Takeda’s actually been more annoying to deal with than almost any other cast member. Don’t feel like I can as effectively deal with b21 as I can with other characters, and his runaway game with air kunai is a pain - though once I’m in, Takeda is in trouble.

 

[ImpostorOak]

how does the Reiko MU play out in your opinion? I just started dabbling with him in kasuals and am no where near good yet, but Takeda’s actually been more annoying to deal with than almost any other cast member. Don’t feel like I can as effectively deal with b21 as I can with other characters, and his runaway game with air kunai is a pain - though once I’m in, Takeda is in trouble.

I really like the Reiko MU! Reiko has shitty range normals and characters with shitty range normals are Takeda's best MUs. Especially Reiko, as you can bf3u on a read to punish Throwing Stars at full screen, and that's a good chunk of his gameplan, you can also use the air jump to punish stars, and will be safe on block but its really easy to mistime that online.

Reikos low pokes outclass Takeda's, and once Reiko gets in there's not a lot you can do about it aside from wait your turn- you could escape with Kameo or make a great read with a neutral duck or up blocking the OH. Any character with any mix is extra scary for Takeda because your armor has 30f startup and your mid is 15f.

B3 CAN low profile and Punish a mid screen throwing stars, but that's also a read.

B21 is very punishable by Reiko like no matter what you do(more so than other characters) so that string giving Reiko trouble seems odd, but its design is to catch whiffs and bad plays, and Reiko does have a good bit of recovery on a lot of his moves.

Diagonal 1 will low profile stars for a full combo.

Basically I play the MU by showing that full screen stars is a risk for them, try to outfootsie in the midscreen, and keep them in f1 distance. Very fun MU in my opinion. Probably 5-5.

 

[Juggs]

Imagine talking shit about someone’s (or multiple peoples) knowledge and either indirectly or directly questioning their skill, then being super shocked and surprised that those same people say “okay, if you feel that way, let’s play and find out”. It’s very fitting to go by a name like “riff raff” considering the definition of it

js ¯\(ツ)/¯