MK1 Tier List Discussion Thread

[LEGEND]

I think goo ball is way more dangerous full screen - throwing it out jump distance and closer is asking to get punished, it has 49f of recovery. And at full screen, more often than not, you can't really get a trade with goo ball again because if its bad frames - I find myself frequently needing to use sub zero armor if my opponent has successfully started their zoning.

Kenshi definitely wishes he had Cyrax's TP, but it can be punished, and other then that Kenshi has better movement, including his ridiculously good backdash which complements his better buttons. F2 and b2 are way better than anything Cyrax has. I was curious about Cyrax's b3 and this dodging of s1s - considering how stubby it is. I wasn't able to replicate any dodging of a s1 at all, unless it was a range where the s1 was already going to whiff. Further, there were ranges where a s1 would normally whiff, but it would hit Cyrax during the "dodging" startup of b3.

All this to say, a safe vortex that does 30% each rep, where the opponent guessing right doesn't leave Cyrax in a super favorable position isn't nowhere near enough to propel this character into top tier territory. She's got mk9 net-and-a-dream robbery potential, but a lot of the cast has that too, with way better all around kits.

The goo ball around jump distance is fairly risk free and restricts pressing buttons and spacing out. The threat of that random hit is quite restrictive to fight against. Again, with a bomb typically on screen to boot. If that goo ball threat starts getting people to jump or do neutral skips then you've already won.

I think your last statement is a bit out of touch. Who else has a true 50/50 vortex that can start off of any hit? And hers is meterless. "doesn't leave Cyrax in a favorable position" is kinda redundant. Yeah its not punishable by most of the cast, also yeah she can just continue to play lame after the opponent guesses right, forcing the opponent to come and and make a mistake on the way.

This is a weird argument because I think its very safe to say there are a handful of better characters. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the character and she is extremely good. Any minute downplay like "doesn't leave Cyrax in a super favorable position" when talking about guessing wrong on a 50/50 sounds crazy.

 

[Krasiox]

I think goo ball is way more dangerous full screen - throwing it out jump distance and closer is asking to get punished, it has 49f of recovery. And at full screen, more often than not, you can't really get a trade with goo ball again because if its bad frames - I find myself frequently needing to use sub zero armor if my opponent has successfully started their zoning.

Kenshi definitely wishes he had Cyrax's TP, but it can be punished, and other then that Kenshi has better movement, including his ridiculously good backdash which complements his better buttons. F2 and b2 are way better than anything Cyrax has. I was curious about Cyrax's b3 and this dodging of s1s - considering how stubby it is. I wasn't able to replicate any dodging of a s1 at all, unless it was a range where the s1 was already going to whiff. Further, there were ranges where a s1 would normally whiff, but it would hit Cyrax during the "dodging" startup of b3.

All this to say, a safe vortex that does 30% each rep, where the opponent guessing right doesn't leave Cyrax in a super favorable position isn't nowhere near enough to propel this character into top tier territory. She's got mk9 net-and-a-dream robbery potential, but a lot of the cast has that too, with way better all around kits.

Forceball doesn't go fullscreen. Zoners are always going to win the zoning game against Reptile.
I play Cyrax as well and she feels better in neutral than reptile since she has ACTUAL full screen tools + teleport + 2 of the best mids in the game + 2 armor breaking meatys and a stryke throw playstyle if needed. She is WAY better and diverse than Reptile. This is in context of the "tierlist".
What is his gameplan ? Oh forceball, oh u backdashed twice, guess let me meterburn elbow dash to get full combo punished because they backdashed again or flawles blocked. Ok let me hide behind ex forceball and approach u, oh youre one of the 20 charaters with armor launchers okay welp guess my meters gone. Oh u wanna stagger ? There are at least 10 characters with better close up buttons thata re going outmash you back to character select.

 

[wsj515]

The goo ball around jump distance is fairly risk free and restricts pressing buttons and spacing out. The threat of that random hit is quite restrictive to fight against. Again, with a bomb typically on screen to boot. If that goo ball threat starts getting people to jump or do neutral skips then you've already won.

I think your last statement is a bit out of touch. Who else has a true 50/50 vortex that can start off of any hit? And hers is meterless. "doesn't leave Cyrax in a favorable position" is kinda redundant. Yeah its not punishable by most of the cast, also yeah she can just continue to play lame after the opponent guesses right, forcing the opponent to come and and make a mistake on the way.

This is a weird argument because I think its very safe to say there are a handful of better characters. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with the character and she is extremely good. Any minute downplay like "doesn't leave Cyrax in a super favorable position" when talking about guessing wrong on a 50/50 sounds crazy.

Want to remind you that I’m not trying to say the character is bad - I agree that her setplay is really strong, so that in and of itself makes her a good character. I do think she isn’t high tier though - there are actually a number of characters that have a vortex off of any touch, or just better tools generally. Off the top of my head, HL, Sindel, Kenshi all have similar or better setplay. Scorpion Ferra can also restand into Ferra mix, the list goes on.

it’s not enough to have good setplay to be a S tier character in this game. Also I just can’t agree that goo ball should have anyone scared at jump distance, if that’s something that’s changing the way you play the MU, then I’m really curious what character you’re using, because it must be something really MU specific or just a skill issue.