What's new

Make Wonder Woman Great Again! Just like her new movie!

What would you like to see most

  • Choose which buff you get in trait

    Votes: 73 60.3%
  • New usefull advancing string

    Votes: 44 36.4%
  • Air Dash

    Votes: 35 28.9%
  • Easier b3 connection on her combos

    Votes: 35 28.9%
  • Make parry send projectiles back, like Katanas twirl

    Votes: 40 33.1%

  • Total voters
    121

Stanlos

Noob
Captain cold is far from rubbish. The fact that he can charge his trait while the effects of trait are active gives him huge advantage and he can damage you from anywhere on stage unlike WoWo who has to turtle her way in and then try to open up her opponent which isn't guaranteed[/QUOTE]

I remember early on Akro advising that trying to open up the opponent is a mistake. We didn't understand what it meant then but now we think it means punish their biopsies and focus on that and spacing.
 

Stanlos

Noob
Just so we are clear, I am so not dissing the kit. Just pointing out that the interpretation doesn't hit all the basic abilities of the comics character.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
So many people in denial or could it be you guys don't want to see Wonder Woman truly become viable?

Scarecrow has lot more range than Wonder Woman + teleport.

No matter how fast projectile is at full screen you ll be able to parry it.

The purpose of reflect would be to deter your opponent from throwing projectile after projectile which ll allow you to move in.

This why she needs some changes to mb lasso and air dash/ downward air shield slam added to her base moveset.
No matter how compressed the tiers are, there will always be a whole mess of characters that will draw short on tournament viability. Somebody out there is going to have to deal with and be ok with the idea that their chosen character is just mid tier but fun to play. Plus her being tournament viable would nothing for a lot of us who aren't tournament viable players to begin with. I know everyone wants their character to be at the top, but that's not how it works. Not unless you nuke diversity and just make all the characters the same, which would be lame. So, yea, I don't need her specifically to be viable, not if it means a lack of character diversity or that she gets weird alterations that turn her into something else I don't enjoy playing.

I still say don't touch her parry. It has way more properties than any of the other parries in the game as far as I know. She deflects projectiles, gets damage buffs, and can full combo off of it. At some point it just sounds greedy to ask for more when she already has the most, and if she is struggling with the parry as it is, buffing it probably isn't going to fix anything.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
So by your definition, bane, level 1 and 2 trait canary, the flash, robin, to name a few, are not viable? They can't do damage from the other end, nor can they teleport, air dash, dive kick in.
Bane gets armor from his trait plus Unblockable grabs when he is in.

Canary has a move which allows her to move forward while avoiding projectiles.

Flash has low advancing special move+ parry+trait that slows down time.

Robin can deal damage from full screen + forward advancing ranged normals.


All these characters have advancing normals which is something WoWo doesn't have.
 

Ryu Hayabusa

Filthy Casual
No matter how compressed the tiers are, there will always be a whole mess of characters that will draw short on tournament viability. Somebody out there is going to have to deal with and be ok with the idea that their chosen character is just mid tier but fun to play. Plus her being tournament viable would nothing for a lot of us who aren't tournament viable players to begin with. I know everyone wants their character to be at the top, but that's not how it works. Not unless you nuke diversity and just make all the characters the same, which would be lame. So, yea, I don't need her specifically to be viable, not if it means a lack of character diversity or that she gets weird alterations that turn her into something else I don't enjoy playing.

I still say don't touch her parry. It has way more properties than any of the other parries in the game as far as I know. She deflects projectiles, gets damage buffs, and can full combo off of it. At some point it just sounds greedy to ask for more when she already has the most, and if she is struggling with the parry as it is, buffing it probably isn't going to fix anything.
I m not tournament player and have very little interest in it but it is good measure of tiers. If she was viable as some are claiming then she would have made top 16 at viennality. There was only one guy at evo in top 50 who played WoWo and he lost.

comic WoWo is one of the most versatile characters but NRS fucked her up not only tier wise but also when it comes to overall design of character.

Her whole play style revolves around throwing shield. I wonder where they got this idea from? If they had done some research on WoWo we wouldn't be complaining. They ignored her lore completely and gave us a character who throws shield at her opponent instead of utilizing different abilities of bracelets and lasso.
 

TheGabStandard

The anticipation is killing me
I m not tournament player and have very little interest in it but it is good measure of tiers. If she was viable as some are claiming then she would have made top 16 at viennality. There was only one guy at evo in top 50 who played WoWo and he lost.

comic WoWo is one of the most versatile characters but NRS fucked her up not only tier wise but also when it comes to overall design of character.

Her whole play style revolves around throwing shield. I wonder where they got this idea from? If they had done some research on WoWo we wouldn't be complaining. They ignored her lore completely and gave us a character who throws shield at her opponent instead of utilizing different abilities of bracelets and lasso.
You can hate her design from a lore standpoint, that is the way it is and that design is not changing regardless because that is what NRS wanted. But your definition of viability cannot be exclusively compared to tournament placings especially when representation plays a part.

WoWo is viable but her issue is that not only does she have a steep learning curve (all on your neutral game) but she exposes player weaknesses really badly. If you don't have the patience, reads, knowledge and spacing game down she has nothing to hide behind. In similar fashion she can destroy others who showcase those same traits.

Finally with tiers being decided by MUs maybe you should list who you think she loses to/who you struggle with. That way a discussion can take place on how good/bad she actually is instead on focusing on tools.
 
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Lex Luthor II

Lord of Lightning
The biggest problem with WoWo right now is how boring she is to use compared to Inj1WoWo.

I found SG to be an adequate substitute. Zipping around and putting pressure on.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
Batman is a hard MU for every character in the game. Seriously when is he getting fix. He doesn't have single losing MU.
Batman loses to Deadshot & Harley. Those were his bad matchups. More characters will be added now since patch. Already being discussed
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
The biggest problem with WoWo right now is how boring she is to use compared to Inj1WoWo.

I found SG to be an adequate substitute. Zipping around and putting pressure on.
Boring is wildly subjective. I think Batman is boring but a bajillon other people seem to disagree. I do happen to like WoWo in this game, as is, more than any of the others. I kind of don't want you to get want because it would ruin it for me.

I do kind of do like SG but she has too much going on for me to handle playing or playing against. She makes my head explode.
 

DaZengie

https://www.facebook.com/groups/MortalKombatATX/
Bane gets armor from his trait plus Unblockable grabs when he is in.

Canary has a move which allows her to move forward while avoiding projectiles.

Flash has low advancing special move+ parry+trait that slows down time.

Robin can deal damage from full screen + forward advancing ranged normals.


All these characters have advancing normals which is something WoWo doesn't have.
Bane's charge can be blown up by a meter burn wall bounce on reaction. His grabs can be neutral jumped.
Canary's somersault barely avoids projectiles. It's hard to evade if consistently and the opponents can change up their timing on the projectiles.
Flash's running man low can be hit out of and the trait is on a timer.

All these are tools to get in but once again nothing is guaranteed.

I m not tournament player and have very little interest in it but it is good measure of tiers. If she was viable as some are claiming then she would have made top 16 at viennality. There was only one guy at evo in top 50 who played WoWo and he lost.
There you go. You admit you're not a tournament player yet you criticize the viability of the character in a tournament setting. Your logic is "if x character doesn't make top 8 or top 16, he or she is not viable." By the time the tournament dwindles down to 16 people, it's the better player that wins. If I sat down with a better player using WW and beats me while I am using prepatch black Adam or aquaman, WW didn't beat me because that person could've used swamp thing or whoever else and still win. Just like sonicfox beating everyone with captain cold. He's just leagues better than everyone else at this point of the game.

WW almost cracked top 16 like shyndoa said. Both WW lost against FK and they had to play each other. Only 2 players can only make out of pools. And without a doubt, FK and foxy grampa have way more tournament experience than anyone else in their pools and they probably play the best players all the time - Not to discredit everyone else in their pools.
 
Canary has a move which allows her to move forward while avoiding projectiles.
It doesn't avoid projectiles. You're better off jumping and creeping if you want to do that. Any projectile it "avoids" is only by happenstance. Don't believe me? Try cartwheeling to avoid WoWo's projectiles. See how "viable" that is. Oh, and btw, Canary vs WoWo is a hard 4-6 in WoWo's favor. Why? Because may have "advancing normals" but her reach is still quite short in neutral/mid-range where she gets absolutely ANNIHILATED by a patient WoWo.

"Viability" isn't something that's determined by the character. It's determined by the player. We're given the ingredients to make the meal edible. It's not the other way around. WoWo (imo) is a mid-range dominant, space-controlling, defensive character. Other characters have advancing normals? Good for them. I main Canary. I would LOVE to have ANYTHING in mid-range that isn't CC lvl 2 or 3. That's all I got. Meanwhile WoWo over here has......

- B2 that's safe, unseeable, and controls a good amount of space in front of her. You can combo off of it and intimidate with it. And now you're + on block if you go b23. Yes, you have a gap between the 2 and 3. But other than armored reversals and parries, that's not gonna matter in mid-range. And if it's blocked, the opponent is pushed back into Shield Toss range.

- a shoulder charge that hits if if the opponent is even THINKING about pressing forward or using those "advancing normals". It's fast as crap and can be meter burned to be safe.

- a shield toss that can be thrown forward and upward, can be combo'd out of, and if you mb, you can pull the opponent closer into mid range if it's blocked. It's not for full-screen projectile wars (because it doesn't go full screen, duh). It's a space eater and an advancing deterrent. Good chip too. And if by some miracle you get Athena trait, it EATS opposing projectiles.

- a jumping 3 that controls a lot of space below and in front. Once it's out, it's not gonna lose to anything. And like her other whip attacks, her hurtbox is placed far away from where the whip hits. Jump back 3, is a get out of jail card for me.

- you're simply not gonna be able to jump anywhere near WoWo's D2. It's just not gonna happen.

This is simply a different character from inj1. Plain and simple. Controlling neutral is where it's at. Don't tell me about how "viable" she is when I'm BC and unless I have lvl 3 CC on deck, I'm pretty much DOA trying to get in striking range vs her.
 
The biggest problem with WoWo right now is how boring she is to use compared to Inj1WoWo.
This is the biggest problem I have/had with WoWo. I used her as my secondary to Hawkgirl and she was a blast to play. She could give it to you anyway she wanted. Rushdown. Keep away. Chip damage. Space control. Air superiority. Combos for days. Her shield stance was good, but her whip style was just so overwhelming it was like, "why go to shield?" And she hit hard too. And her corner game was vicious. And her wakeup game was versatile.

If I never used her in inj1, I would be fine with her from day 1 of inj2.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
I like playing as BC, but she has her own demons. The damage and combos are so satisfying, but that neurtal game is rough. When I use her advancing normals or strings I feel like I just end up getting hit out most of the time. I'm still learning.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
Bane's charge can be blown up by a meter burn wall bounce on reaction. His grabs can be neutral jumped.
Canary's somersault barely avoids projectiles. It's hard to evade if consistently and the opponents can change up their timing on the projectiles.
Flash's running man low can be hit out of and the trait is on a timer.

All these are tools to get in but once again nothing is guaranteed.



There you go. You admit you're not a tournament player yet you criticize the viability of the character in a tournament setting. Your logic is "if x character doesn't make top 8 or top 16, he or she is not viable." By the time the tournament dwindles down to 16 people, it's the better player that wins. If I sat down with a better player using WW and beats me while I am using prepatch black Adam or aquaman, WW didn't beat me because that person could've used swamp thing or whoever else and still win. Just like sonicfox beating everyone with captain cold. He's just leagues better than everyone else at this point of the game.

WW almost cracked top 16 like shyndoa said. Both WW lost against FK and they had to play each other. Only 2 players can only make out of pools. And without a doubt, FK and foxy grampa have way more tournament experience than anyone else in their pools and they probably play the best players all the time - Not to discredit everyone else in their pools.
Yeah bro I'm not even gonna lie. That kind of made me cringe a little bit. I didn't really want to post about it because I didn't want to come off as a dick, but this just isn't good to do. Everyone here including the competitive players are casual too. Most people tend to forget that too.

You're entitled to your opinion & fully understand what you're saying about her neutral w/shield toss, but this isn't a good concept to apply at all. I think Wonder Woman has a lot of potential, but I'm not going to say she's top 10 or top 5 because she got buffs. I just think she's under utilized & she has a bit of a learning curve (ie she takes time to use). I still explore her btw.

Having random trait does suck though.
 
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Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Having random trait does suck though.
I'm actually ok with the random trait. The "random" part isn't ideal, but on the other hand all 5 buffs are decent if the WW player knows how to use them, they stay active for a long time, there's a super short cooldown, and now it should be easier to safely combo into Trait, meaning with smart play a WW player should be able to walk around with some type of buff most of the match.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
I'm actually ok with the random trait. The "random" part isn't ideal, but on the other hand all 5 buffs are decent if the WW player knows how to use them, they stay active for a long time, there's a super short cooldown, and now it should be easier to safely combo into Trait, meaning with smart play a WW player should be able to walk around with some type of buff most of the match.
I mean for me, the real only grudge that I have with her trait being the way that it is now is that her air dashing is a part of it. If she had air dash as a part of her normal movement, her trait would actually be great the way that it is. It's cool that she got the buff with the 5 traits, but it may not be the trait buff that you're looking for during a match given the situation.
 

Skedar70

Noob
Batman loses to Deadshot & Harley. Those were his bad matchups. More characters will be added now since patch. Already being discussed
No he doesn't Foreverking mopped Biohazards Harley at Viennality just one week ago and he wasn't changed at all in the patch. Damage scaling barely made any difference to his combos. His MB batarags were just reduced from +25 or 24 to +19 or +18 BIG DEAL HE IS STILL PLUS AS HELL. No MU are changing at all.
 

JDE

Pick up & kill it & kill it & kill it!
No he doesn't Foreverking mopped Biohazards Harley at Viennality just one week ago and he wasn't changed at all in the patch. Damage scaling barely made any difference to his combos. His MB batarags were just reduced from +25 or 24 to +19 or +18 BIG DEAL HE IS STILL PLUS AS HELL. No MU are changing at all.
He's a good player who actually takes time to adapt when he's playing Batman before he counterpicks & not just outright switch. He also said this stuff himself lol. I even discussed a few match ups with him lol. Not going to say anything else because this isn't a Batman thread. Here you go. His match up chart.
https://testyourmight.com/threads/batman-matchup-chart-injustice-2.64833/
 
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Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Putting WW's air dash in her kit means that after every lasso grab, she gets a free iadash j1 or j1 crossup. That would be a little strong I think to have in her normal kit.
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Putting WW's air dash in her kit means that after every lasso grab, she gets a free iadash j1 or j1 crossup. That would be a little strong I think to have in her normal kit.
unless you have them cornered you're too far away for an air dash cross up. And I don't see it being too strong when several other characters have great knockdowns much closer with air dash as well.

But I don't see it ever changing anyway. Pretty sure they're just going to leave her as is except frame data change's possibly down the road.
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
I m not tournament player and have very little interest in it but it is good measure of tiers. If she was viable as some are claiming then she would have made top 16 at viennality. There was only one guy at evo in top 50 who played WoWo and he lost.
If not being in top 16 means a character deserves being complained about in forum then there must be a whole lot of complaining going on in a bunch of the character forums.

It's at best representative of a handful of characters that are the top favored among the best players in the world during Viennality. That's not terribly useful information in the grand scheme of things. Tier list in general aren't all that useful. They are only valid for the handful of people able to play at "the highest level" and those people don't need the stupid lists because they are the ones making and defining them.

How good a character is in relation to other characters mutates as you slide up and down the player skill level. A character that is high tier at 16 very well could be utter, inaccessible trash for mid or low level players and vice versa.

As an example, I put about 100 hours into Storm Queen D'Vorah, and one day I said to myself "I can't do bug cancels. I can't play this character." So I switched to Venomous instead; going from the "best" variation to the "worst" variation. I didn't listen to people telling me I shouldn't, and that SQ was the only way to go, but I was a much better Venomous player than I ever was or would have been a Storm Queen. It didn't matter that SQ had more potential if it was locked behind a skill gap I was incapable of crossing. I couldn't do what Honeybee and Tekken Master could, and at some point it would have been delusional to keep trying. Every other D'Vorah I met did keep trying, and I think I only lost to one of them who also bodied me with a bunch of other characters. (For the record this is not me calling SQ top tier, is just a relational example.)

Deadshot may not be turning out to winning tournaments, but that doesn't mean he isn't a nightmare at mash tier where people don't have the slightest clue what to do about extreme zoning.

Playing a top tier character doesn't guarantee anything if you aren't also top tier, and when it comes to this tier mutation WoWo probably isn't good at low skill levels since she requires applying some higher level play philosophies. Once you get to the mid-high level she probably starts to come into her own and ends up being pretty good. Does that make her top 8 at a major good? Does she really need to be? Does any character deserve to be that good over the others? No.

Unless you have some need for her to be top 5 so you can watch her on stream, her being high, mid, or low at a tournament level isn't meaningful to either of us.